A Superhuman Registration World

[csyphrett]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

I don't think the patriot act is a good example since it was gutted in a year by newer legislation.

 

Good people will stand up against bad people. It happens all the time. A draft where you are sucked into the government for years will make people not do

that. why should they since the government is claiming responsibility for that.

 

this is the initial idea

The vague outline I had in mind had them joining one of the lesser teams, doing a little heroics and then discovering that their corporate sponsor is up to no good, doing things like having "reservists" on the team books that are actually being used by the corporation to carry out corporate espionage, and third world atrocities. Exposing their villainous bosses and the NPC "leader" of the team (who they've been ignoring from the start because he's a stooge), the remaining team members find themselves operating sponsorless. From there the PCs would be presented with options like seeking alternative funding on terms more to their liking, hooking up with a counter culture group of "terrorists" out to overthrow the American government, going underground A-Team style, becoming Robin Hood-like supervillains or something else the players come up with.

 

That doesn't need a draft. that's a common idea across all types of fiction. Tiger and Bunny are doing that right now. Madoka did it in her run. Most Wanted and Shooter (and the book shooter is based on) did it.

 

If Clonus pitches the idea to his players and they say yeah we can do this as a background event, then he will have to deal with them doing things to get out of the draft, opposing the draft, or going along and killing any superior officer they are fielded with.

 

For every criminal that uses his abilities for crime, there will be millions that will just use their abilities to make things better for themselves, and others, and thousands that will go beyond that.

 

Just like in the real world.

CES

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

The OP didn't specify why there was a superdraft' date=' and the reasons he alluded to sounded kind of vague (and therefore weak). Given a superterrorist attack, I'm sure there would be supers crawling out of the woodwork to lend a hand, but I also suggest that it would have to be a seriously dire threat for more than a small percentage (I'd guess about 10%) to give up a job they are skilled at for a job where they might be expected to deal violence to others on a regular basis. I don't know about you, but I would get very, [i']very[/i] stressed out (possibly to the point of what used to be called a "nervous breakdown") having to frequently face hostile people with intent to harm myself or others, and equipped with the ability to do so.

 

The current conscientious objector rules would still apply. Which is to say, if a draftee refused to engage in combat, they could generally be put to work in a noncombat capacity. Search and Rescue, for example, intelligence gathering for the mentally empowered, even disaster relief.

 

 

 

The only options in the OP for superpowered individuals are military service or as part of a superteam with law enforcement responsibilities.

 

While the team has law enforcement powers, that doesn't mean every single member of it has to engage in combat. It's just a matter of finding a team which is prepared to find a job for you that you can do. And it would be possible to say, get a job as a fireman and that would be enough to be draft exempt since after all, fire fighters are an essential part of the nation's defense against terrorism.

 

 

Perhaps it's just me, but If my GM proposed a campaign along these lines, I would have concerns that it might be a darker campaign than I could have fun with

 

Yeah, it's kind of dark. It's consciously intended to be a modern age campaign filled with deconstruction but also paranoia. You can't trust a person just because he's a "superhero".

[Christopher]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Good people will stand up against bad people. It happens all the time. A draft where you are sucked into the government for years will make people not do

that.

[...]

For every criminal that uses his abilities for crime, there will be millions that will just use their abilities to make things better for themselves, and others, and thousands that will go beyond that.

Just to get this right: You say, tehre will be thousands who do it.

Yet you also claim that you would never do it, not even when there is an alien invasion.

 

What if thoses thousands that should rise by themself in your opinon, also don't want to do it? Humans are only altruistic if persons around them are in direct danger or when there is a direct, common enemy.

As soon as thing get more blurry/distant, it is "Somebody Else's Problem". When the Nation/Staates wouldn't keep a Police force, I doubt many people would mind or defend the rules we all think are natrual for us (like don't kill). Just take a look in a typical post appokalyptic future, where no government exists anymore.

[Orion]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Perhaps it's just me' date=' but If my GM proposed a campaign along these lines, I would have concerns that it might be a darker campaign than I could have fun with.[/quote']

 

Not directed at you Baloo - this line just solidified some thoughts of mine.

 

We play barbarian warriors looting tombs, Jedi fighting clones, and refugees fighting off zombie hordes. And at least some of these campaigns are dark in tone. Why is playing a super-powered soldier bad? Killing foes is killing foes, isn't it? Why does the fact that the character can fire laser beams from his eyes make a difference? Bad governments are a staple of fiction and role-playing, but not thought appropriate if any character wears spandex. Why is the combination of dark and spandex so horrid to so many?

 

I've seen multiple times on these forums that killing is not heroic. Why? I would certainly put the actions of police and soldiers as heroic, and they are expected, or even encouraged, to kill if necessary. Why not view superheroes as soldiers in the war against crime/terror/etc and expect them to act like soldiers? Why is wanting to beat up people on a daily basis considered heroic and praised, especially when the villains regularly run away at the end and come back another day?

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

 

I've seen multiple times on these forums that killing is not heroic.

 

Actually it's not superheroic. As the name implies historically superheroes have been held to a higher standard than the rest of us in many different ways. In part that's because a good bad guy is a terrible thing to waste and a disposable mook isn't worth killing because the power disparity between them and the hero is generally so great that killing is nothing short of murder. While comic books do let their characters break the law by failing to remain at the scene of crimes and give their information to the authorities, there a big gap between that comparatively minor offence and committing murder under the law. Even in the case where opponents do pose a significant threat, one should bear in mind that a private citizen can not start a fight even to stop a crime and then claim self-defence when it results in a death, nor can one kill a surrendered or incapacitated opponent and claim self-defence. And, just as comic book companies have a vested interest in retaining their valuable intellectual property (the super villains), GMs have an interest in ensuring that they don't have to constantly make up new villains. Creating groups of good complete characters is a lot of work, so it's not in their interest to encourage players to follow a modus operandi that makes it hard to use them more than once.

 

That being said, the what I had in mind was a setting where there are a lot of people aping comic book superheroes without actually being them with the PCs hopefully being among the exceptions to that rule. I tracked down Rabbit and Tiger, and that's something quite different. There, the point is that even though the characters have been commercialized that doesn't actually stop them from being honest-to-goodness superheroes despite having advertising on their costumes. Even the Blue Rose, the idol singer reaches the point where she realizes that superheroics are not a springboard to a successful singing career. Where an American treatment of the concept would have had Sky High, the hero who scores the most points, be some kind of cocaine-snorting phony in it for the fame and the money that isn't how they are playing him at all. After all, since all of the hero sponsors are real-world corporation paying money for product placement, they can't be portrayed with true cynicism. There's a certain irony there.

[csyphrett]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Just to get this right: You say, tehre will be thousands who do it.

Yet you also claim that you would never do it, not even when there is an alien invasion.

 

What if thoses thousands that should rise by themself in your opinon, also don't want to do it? Humans are only altruistic if persons around them are in direct danger or when there is a direct, common enemy.

As soon as thing get more blurry/distant, it is "Somebody Else's Problem". When the Nation/Staates wouldn't keep a Police force, I doubt many people would mind or defend the rules we all think are natrual for us (like don't kill). Just take a look in a typical post appokalyptic future, where no government exists anymore.

 

I subscribe to Chris Rock's theory of people. There going to be a certain amount that go crazy evil, a majority that will do for themselves as best as possible, and a certain amount that will become true heroes. I don't think that a majority will go crazy enough for a draft to be a realistic consequence.

 

I think the majority will stop the crazy evil because they are threatening things that majority wants.

CES

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

I subscribe to Chris Rock's theory of people. There going to be a certain amount that go crazy evil, a majority that will do for themselves as best as possible, and a certain amount that will become true heroes. I don't think that a majority will go crazy enough for a draft to be a realistic consequence.

 

I conceived of the draft as the response to the fact that giving the other side of the middle-eastern wars more power means that they went worse. Domestic super-criminals are largely beside the issue especially since the United States hasn't abandoned posse comitatus.

[csyphrett]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

I imagine something like this would cause the Middle East to rip apart before it even gets close to the US. Israel, which has a mandatory period of service, would probably be the only one to come out of such a thing whole.

 

If anything, the world would be policing this area for a while in my opinion.

CES

[Orion]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Actually it's not superheroic. As the name implies historically superheroes have been held to a higher standard than the rest of us in many different ways. In part that's because a good bad guy is a terrible thing to waste and a disposable mook isn't worth killing because the power disparity between them and the hero is generally so great that killing is nothing short of murder.

 

I see this reasoning, but can't quite buy it. As a GM or storyteller, creating a good villain is hard, and wanting to use it multiple times is reasonable. It's a good reason to not have superheroes kill the villains. But then the same should happen in sword n sorcery, outer space, monster hunter, dark champions, etc. If the GM/storyteller can handle having the villains killed in these genres, they should be able to handle it in the comics genre.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Not directed at you Baloo - this line just solidified some thoughts of mine.

 

We play barbarian warriors looting tombs, Jedi fighting clones, and refugees fighting off zombie hordes. And at least some of these campaigns are dark in tone. Why is playing a super-powered soldier bad? Killing foes is killing foes, isn't it? Why does the fact that the character can fire laser beams from his eyes make a difference? Bad governments are a staple of fiction and role-playing, but not thought appropriate if any character wears spandex. Why is the combination of dark and spandex so horrid to so many?

 

I've seen multiple times on these forums that killing is not heroic. Why? I would certainly put the actions of police and soldiers as heroic, and they are expected, or even encouraged, to kill if necessary. Why not view superheroes as soldiers in the war against crime/terror/etc and expect them to act like soldiers? Why is wanting to beat up people on a daily basis considered heroic and praised, especially when the villains regularly run away at the end and come back another day?

 

 

 

It really depends on the campaign about killing in a normal supers campaign the idea is they turn over crimminals to the lawful authorities and go through proper channels. In a wartime situation I have no problem with super soldiers but..... They is also responding to force with appropiate force. If a guy attacks Superman with anormal gun and Supes heat visions his face off, it a bit overeacting in most circumstances because the guy is zero threat and he could take him down so easily with lethal force. With great power comes greart responsibiliy.

 

While a very heroic superhero camapign can include lethal force ( and mine sometimes does depending on circumstances becuase its basicallt a puplish world with Superheroes) often when the source material goes to common killing, it dives into hyperrealism and the heroism and idealism is lost.

 

Evil governments are in every genre true. The problem is at least my players, at least, don't tolerate oppression from their home Govt. and would never be agents for such a Govt. a second longer than they had to.

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

I see this reasoning' date=' but can't quite buy it. As a GM or storyteller, creating a good villain is hard, and wanting to use it multiple times is reasonable. It's a good reason to not have superheroes kill the villains. But then the same should happen in sword n sorcery, outer space, monster hunter, dark champions, etc. If the GM/storyteller can handle having the villains killed in these genres, they should be able to handle it in the comics genre.[/quote']

 

Tsk, tsk. I said in part. That means it's not the whole story. Things that make the superhero genre different include:

 

1. Opponents are not generic types but unique individuals. Even the most minor supervillains are distinct individuals like Kangaroo and Kite-Man and have to be conceived and designed separately. Opponents in other genres are usually types. One rust monster, werewolf, gangster, or infantry robot is much the same as the next one in appearance, abilities and nature. You can use their stats and image again and again as required. The few characters who are actual individuals can be characters you can't just fight on first encounter or who possess a "get out of town in a flash" ability.

2. The setting is one in which the forces of modern law and order exist and you are on their side. Sword and sorcery is a setting in which much as a GM might like to preserve certain opponents, you can hardly charge characters with murder for using excessive force. Monster hunters are generally operating entirely outside the law, against opponents that the law doesn't so much as recognize.

3. The characters are sufficiently powerful that random mooks with guns are not in fact credible threats to your life. This can be the case with other genres of course, but it's fundamentally mandatory with the superhero genre even when you are a two-fisted eccentric with a cape.

[csyphrett]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Plus depending on the game, the gm, and other factors, killing your enemies gets you in a lot of trouble if done in such a way that everyone knows about it.

 

No one wants their character to be locked up with the people he has been fighting.

 

CES