A Superhuman Registration World

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

The other 5 FISS-Guys in the Military Police would like to have a word with you, then. And they do have Handcuffs that work on you.

 

And I glance up from my newspaper at the buildings all around and say, "You sure you want to do this here?"

 

I specified Superman because he's generally considere 'the most powerful anywhere', head and shoulders above the rest. (Of course, they've nerfed him pretty bad in the past 2-3 decades). But it still asks the question, "What do you do with the one who's so powerful (or whose power combo is such) that he can ignore you?" Professor Xavier isn't going to go unless he wants to, and anyone sent to find him will come back thinking they're Tinkerbell. And forcing Superman to serve... what? The first time you turn your back on him, he's flown into orbit, to land back in Metropolis. Oh, yes, lock him up, where you get to waste resources keeping him imprisoned (one slip and he's gone). You don't get Superman to fight crime or terrorism by threatening him. Convince him it's the right thing to do and he'll volunteer. Fail to convince him and he'll beat you across the border.

[Christopher]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

And I glance up from my newspaper at the buildings all around and say, "You sure you want to do this here?"

 

I specified Superman because he's generally considere 'the most powerful anywhere', head and shoulders above the rest. (Of course, they've nerfed him pretty bad in the past 2-3 decades). But it still asks the question, "What do you do with the one who's so powerful (or whose power combo is such) that he can ignore you?" Professor Xavier isn't going to go unless he wants to, and anyone sent to find him will come back thinking they're Tinkerbell. And forcing Superman to serve... what? The first time you turn your back on him, he's flown into orbit, to land back in Metropolis. Oh, yes, lock him up, where you get to waste resources keeping him imprisoned (one slip and he's gone). You don't get Superman to fight crime or terrorism by threatening him. Convince him it's the right thing to do and he'll volunteer. Fail to convince him and he'll beat you across the border.

Since the Superhumans are pretty new in that campaign, such seasoned/powerfull heroes are unlike to be there. Dr. X didn't had "Turn Mind Into Tinkerbell; Severe Transform" to beginn with and even Klark was 18 once (and weaker by then).

 

"So, you want to fly back to metropolis once we turn our back? You know, things could happen then. Secret Identities could be leaked, Newspapers could be bought of and closed, certain female reporters could be shoot when you take a nap" - he doesn't wants to do that, but when it is that what it takes to get him to behave properly...

 

If a super is to dangerous to be controlled? That may only leave killing him as an option. Justified on "National Security".

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

- he doesn't wants to do that, but when it is that what it takes to get him to behave properly...

 

If a super is to dangerous to be controlled? That may only leave killing him as an option. Justified on "National Security".

 

Massive super-battles with opponents of the government have a distinct tendency to turn into something that can be used to justify the draft on the grounds that there's been another terrorist incident.

[Christopher]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Massive super-battles with opponents of the government have a distinct tendency to turn into something that can be used to justify the draft on the grounds that there's been another terrorist incident.

That is even a convincing argument to go along with it: "When we have to fight you because you are AWOL, the media will use this for another great story on the dangers of uncontrolled supers. Do you really want to start another hysteria? Think about what that does to the young supers!"

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Massive super-battles with opponents of the government have a distinct tendency to turn into something that can be used to justify the draft on the grounds that there's been another terrorist incident.

 

I'm thinking it's time to organize a resistance movement. Or a underground railroad. Or both.

(Threatening to assassinate my loved ones to get me to behave? "I don't make deals with terrorists.")

Cap was Right.

[Christopher]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Just one thing occured to me:

What is with the National Guard? It saves you from the normal Military and you can stay at home. It's even "part-time" only.

 

I'm thinking it's time to organize a resistance movement. Or a underground railroad. Or both.

(Threatening to assassinate my loved ones to get me to behave? "I don't make deals with terrorists.")

Cap was Right.

Well, the treath for live is the last line. 99% of the super will behave properly once you treathen to reveal their ID or take them out of their job. Or them and their colleages.

 

But your "resistance" could also be defined as terrorist organisation: You goal is to weaken your countries armed forces. It doesn't require much to be considered "anti-american" (or similar anti-[your nationality]). And don't forget that 95% of the people of america could be behind it. Only the small minority of supers and super-symphatisants would be against it, so your action are against the will of the nation.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Well, the treath for live is the last line. 99% of the super will behave properly once you treathen to reveal their ID or take them out of their job. Or them and their colleages.

 

But your "resistance" could also be defined as terrorist organisation: You goal is to weaken your countries armed forces. It doesn't require much to be considered "anti-american" (or similar anti-[your nationality]). And don't forget that 95% of the people of america could be behind it. Only the small minority of supers and super-symphatisants would be against it, so your action are against the will of the nation.

 

Of course my "resistance" would be defined as a terrorist organization! And of course the evil Government would claim my "goal" is to weaken the country and general "Anti-State" things. That's what evil Governments do, after all. And a tyranny of the majority is still a tyranny. (This is how liberty dies, to thunderous applause. - Senator Padme Amadila.)

 

Now I want to play in this campaign, resisting the Evil Government's efforts to enslave me and my 'kind'. I even have a song written!*

 

We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

And although he may be poor, he shall never be a slave,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

 

They have laid down their lives on the bloody battle field.

Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!

Their motto is resistance -- "To tyrants we'll not yield!"

Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!--

 

*Well, no, I didn't write it. I guess I should be arrested for copyright violation in addition to insurrection.

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Just one thing occured to me:

What is with the National Guard? It saves you from the normal Military and you can stay at home. It's even "part-time" only.

 

In the past 10 years many National Guardsmen have found that line of reasoning has rather failed them.

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

I'm thinking it's time to organize a resistance movement. Or a underground railroad. Or both.

(Threatening to assassinate my loved ones to get me to behave? "I don't make deals with terrorists.")

Cap was Right.

 

Although there are certainly highly questionable elements of the program, threats of assassination against loved ones are definitely not part of the deal. If you resist arrest and start fighting against attempts to bring you in with resulting collateral damage, you will be classed as a "terrorist", and that will make your loved ones terrorist associates. But they'll have all the real life rights of an American citizen. Unless they are actively aiding and abetting you, they'll be questioned with the right to a lawyer and/or surveilled, bugged, wiretapped. If it is found that they are giving a fugitive domestic terrorist aid and comfort, they'll be arrested and charged, but will have the usual rights of an accused criminal.

 

No assassination threats though.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Since the Superhumans are pretty new in that campaign, such seasoned/powerfull heroes are unlike to be there. Dr. X didn't had "Turn Mind Into Tinkerbell; Severe Transform" to beginn with and even Klark was 18 once (and weaker by then).

 

"So, you want to fly back to metropolis once we turn our back? You know, things could happen then. Secret Identities could be leaked, Newspapers could be bought of and closed, certain female reporters could be shoot when you take a nap" - he doesn't wants to do that, but when it is that what it takes to get him to behave properly...

 

If a super is to dangerous to be controlled? That may only leave killing him as an option. Justified on "National Security".

 

Wow! my players would take this as "GM wants us to overthrow the Govt or at least the corrupt Govt. agency" campaign.Your players really have to buy into the concept to accept this sort of crap.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Although there are certainly highly questionable elements of the program, threats of assassination against loved ones are definitely not part of the deal. If you resist arrest and start fighting against attempts to bring you in with resulting collateral damage, you will be classed as a "terrorist", and that will make your loved ones terrorist associates. But they'll have all the real life rights of an American citizen. Unless they are actively aiding and abetting you, they'll be questioned with the right to a lawyer and/or surveilled, bugged, wiretapped. If it is found that they are giving a fugitive domestic terrorist aid and comfort, they'll be arrested and charged, but will have the usual rights of an accused criminal.

 

No assassination threats though.

 

 

Obviously you know your players but make absolutely sure they're on board with this sort of stuff. I know my players would not,

[Steve]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

A psionic underground would be a terror to the government, and their ability to organize in secret would be amazing. The word could go out like wildfire through those with telepathic abilities, a sort of psionic twitter.

 

And controlling the actions of a few federal judges would really put a kink in the government's attempts to control superhumans, unless martial law has been declared.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Agreement with csyphrett and Christopher. Are the players OK with this?

--With me it just breeds rebellion.

This isn't a draft, its slavery/enforced servitude. And that spells an dictatorship/oligarchy.

 

I would think such a dark world would be a mirror to ours. The free supers (PCs) are labeled villains - even though they are heroes in every sense of the word. The fight would be against an oppressive govt tyranny.

 

Pretty much my feeling also.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

A psionic underground would be a terror to the government, and their ability to organize in secret would be amazing. The word could go out like wildfire through those with telepathic abilities, a sort of psionic twitter.

 

And controlling the actions of a few federal judges would really put a kink in the government's attempts to control superhumans, unless martial law has been declared.

 

If martial law has been declared, you need to control the generals instead of the judges. Which might be easier, since law enforcement is more likely to disobey a judge than a soldier to disobey a general.

[Orion]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Now see, while some players may have trouble with the idea, I think it is exactly what the US and other governments would do if superpowers started showing up. There would be various treaties with other nations about how supers would never be allowed in the military, or never used outside the borders, but every country would use them in secret. The government would never trust a super with a secret ID, and never fully trust one, even those in direct government service. Supergroups would not be allowed - let's face it, law enforcement already hates the idea of the public enforcing laws and protecting themselves.

 

If the genre is "a world with powers" rather than "JLA in Dallas", then it would be quite believable. Villain blows up bank, and he's automatically considered a terrorist. Unsanctioned hero destroys docks trying to take villain in - both are terrorists. After 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing, I think the US public would fully approve this, as it's somewhat being done in real life right now. Sure, liberals like myself would raise a fuss, but look how much good that did against the Patriot Act. There are many, many people I know that would happily give up their rights (and even better, someone else's rights) if it made them feel safer.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

 

I don't think liberals have a monopoly on this sort of outrage. If you think so you really don't understand the authentic connservative mindset. I think nowdays it just comes to the liberals and the Neo-cons want domination over different aspects of your life.

[Christopher]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

A psionic underground would be a terror to the government, and their ability to organize in secret would be amazing. The word could go out like wildfire through those with telepathic abilities, a sort of psionic twitter.

 

And controlling the actions of a few federal judges would really put a kink in the government's attempts to control superhumans, unless martial law has been declared.

You just found an important points: Every goverment has to controll the supers, or it could be overtrhown. And this is by now means limited to Psychic Supers. One fact of supers suddenly popping up: Most classical force multipliers get useless against them.

A government, especially a opressive one, has to controll them. The only thing that allows them to stay in place are usually the force multipliers for the excecutive: Military and Police. But with supers in the picture, most of these Multipliers are useless. Suddenly a 50.000 Man military has no chance to supress a 500.000-1.000.000 Man uprising, if just 1% of each side are supers.

 

What can happen if (a good) goverment doesn't controlls supers, could be seen in JLA with the "Justice Lords". Or in JLU, where it is shown how helpless the US was against the Watchtowers Orbital gun, wouldn't it have been for Project Cadmus (okay, power loss for one hour; but 1/4 of the guys on board are fast moving Point Defense Platforms).

[megaplayboy]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

This always depends on three factors: the number of superhumans, their average and maximum power levels, and the relative capability of the government compared to superhumans. If there are only a few superhumans(i.e., less than 50-100), then registration seems like overkill. If there are a lot(10,000 or more), then this could get messy really quickly, as even a small percentage of resisters can cause disproportionate havoc. If the average superhuman has relatively modest abilities, then this is easier to implement. If the average superhuman approaches starting campaign levels(i.e., 300-500 points), and the most powerful ones can flatten a city or a division in an afternoon, it's hard to see the government forcing them to do anything. If the government has lots of ultratech tools and its own batch of loyal superhumans, then they could probably implement this in all but the most forbidding of environments(i.e., if there's 10,000 plus ultras all operating at 300+ points, with more than a handful at Dr.Destroyer/Takofanes levels, no chance in h**l of implementing a superhuman "draft").

[Christopher]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

If the government has lots of ultratech tools and its own batch of loyal superhumans' date=' then they could probably implement this in all but the most forbidding of environments(i.e., if there's 10,000 plus ultras all operating at 300+ points, with more than a handful at Dr.Destroyer/Takofanes levels, no chance in h**l of implementing a superhuman "draft").[/quote']

What if enough of them go to the government on their own? We always asume that a mayority resist, but what if the mayority of them is following the governments course? Perhaps around lines like "With Great Power, comes Great responsibility for the safety of our country".

[megaplayboy]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

What if enough of them go to the government on their own? We always asume that a mayority resist' date=' but what if the mayority of them is following the governments course? Perhaps around lines like "With Great Power, comes Great responsibility for the safety of our country".[/quote']

 

If 95% of 10,000 superhumans comply, and 5% actively resist, that's around 500 superhumans, who will quickly band together for survival. If they're operating at or near PC level, it's pretty hard to imagine they won't be capable of causing all kinds of problems...particularly if there's some opportunistic country that offers them asylum.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Considering the discriminatory nature of the legislation, I suspect it would get flattened in court sooner rather than later.

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Now see' date=' while some players may have trouble with the idea, I think it is exactly what the US and other governments would do if superpowers started showing up. There would be various treaties with other nations about how supers would never be allowed in the military, or never used outside the borders, but every country would use them in secret. [/quote']

 

Yeah I've thought about that kind of treaty, and I don't find them all that believable. I don't think the United States would be coy about using super-commandos in Afghanistan if they had them particularly in a situation where it was well known that the other side was using supers. In the history of arms limitation treaties, the main reason for bothering was concern about the expense involved in participating in an arm's race. The meta-reason for having super-soldier limitation treaties is to provide an explanation for why the federal government just doesn't co-opt them all. Me, I'm going with the state government sponsored superteams as a part of the tug of war between federal and state authorities. Shortly after the superhuman surge came to light, a major media conglomerate (Read Disney/Marvel_ went to the government of the State of California and offered to recruit and finance their own team of super-law enforcers and the only thing it would cost the state was to hand them law enforcement powers. This started a run on supers, with each state wanting to field their own team before the Federal government grabbed all the supers who weren't public menaces and following the model of the first team, which wore comic book costumes because after all, they were being funded by a comic book company. Other corporations that didn't have the same kind of media interests got into the game if only for the good P.R., but some were actually interested in the possibility of recruiting supers for dirty tricks under the aegis of their own private law enforcement agency.

[Tasha]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Massive super-battles with opponents of the government have a distinct tendency to turn into something that can be used to justify the draft on the grounds that there's been another terrorist incident.

 

Or can be turned around to show how repressive the government is. Those kind of things can go both ways. It depends on who gets to spin it. If the Government shows up to shut down and draft a popular team of heroes (perhaps a team that has lost it's corporate sponsor.

 

Unless you want to run something that feels dystopic. Making the PCs choose between one master or the other may not go over very well. One part of the Supers genre that make it fun to play is the Power trip. Making the heroes join the military or the Corporate Supers takes away from that a bit. It makes the campaign feel more like going to work.

 

I guess one thing your players can do to rebel a bit would be to have one PC have 15 pts of Wealth. Another way would be for one member have megascaled Movement that allows them to move the team to anywhere in the radius required in the time required.

[Tasha]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

It also makes me think that perhaps there could be a 2nd Amendment argument for keeping people with offensive superpowers free.

 

Also, where do they draw the line. Many Martial Artists don't show up as having powers at all, just a lot of skill. How about someone like Batman or Green Arrow. Both arguable non powered normals that use tech. Iron Man? Does the Government steal his armor? Try to conscript him into the military? (assuming that Stark is at a point where he has no money and has lost his companies). What about Supers that have no offensive capabilities?

 

I guess the other side effect of this kind of campaign is one of Civil Disobedience. How about supers do neither register nor do they use their powers. They want to help out, but given the state of the law they refuse to actually step up and help people.

[Clonus]

Re: A Superhuman Registration World

 

Or can be turned around to show how repressive the government is. Those kind of things can go both ways. It depends on who gets to spin it. If the Government shows up to shut down and draft a popular team of heroes (perhaps a team that has lost it's corporate sponsor.

 

Well, the more I think about it, what the government can't do is draft people for life. That would not pass a constitutional sniff-test. So people over 35 can't be drafted (which isn't really an issue since there are almost no characters in this setting over 35 who have powers), and draftees could only be committed to a limited term of service. Four or five years I'd guess would be about the limit. I think I'm going to have to give this more thought. I may have to class this with Manhattan Transfer and X-Wives, as an idea that just doesn't work.