Arrow Damage

[BNakagawa]

The arrow sacrifices half its shooter's DCV.

[Farkling]

As a question for the model enforcers...

 

Have you ever SHOT something with a broadhead hunting arrow?

From experience with a friend of the family, I remember him bringing his compund bow to the firing range when I was a kid. We didn't shoot at paper targets...we shot cans and pillows and sand and lumber and sometimes fruits and melons. (Now that I think back on this, he should've done demos at NRA classes with guns and bows...it would certainly give images to remember).

Back on the subject...I distinctly remember the arrows being more, um, visually deadly than the bullets from our .22's. The .44 was very close to the arrows.

I also remember the arrows generating more hard thrust on what they hit. That would imply real world increase in the DC's.

Previous research on spreadsheets has shown that the -1d6 KB from Killing Attacks is only to compensate for the BODY increase from Normal Attacks...so a couple extra DC's is fine with me.

[gewing]

There are SOME valid arguments for momentum having a role in damage in addition to energy. Like anything, it can be taken to foolish extremes. A bowling ball at 10fps would do damage, but...

 

There are penetration factors based on length and stiffness of projectiles also. I can't easily follow the math on them though.

 

and cutting is much more efficient than pushing a blunt projectile through tissue.

 

Originally posted by Gary

All these factors would indeed make arrows more lethal than their raw joules would indicate, but shouldn't this mean that arrows and bolts should receive a reduced penetration limitation? After all, when trying to penetrate armor, raw energy and surface area of impact are the only real relevant factors. A 9 mm should punch through chainmail or platemail a lot better than any arrow or bolt.

 

Also no matter how the arrow is shaped, it's kinda hard to believe that a 100 joule arrow will do 2d6 damage while a 500 joule bullet will do 1d6+1 damage. The shape of the arrow can only do so much.

[Gary]

What about 20 J reed arrows from ancient Egyptian shortbows? Or even wooden arrows with obsidian, copper or bronze tips from many cultures. No special materials or shape of the arrowheads, and they're still rated as 1d6 RKA's, close to a 450 J 9mm bullet.

[Gary]

Originally posted by gewing

and cutting is much more efficient than pushing a blunt projectile through tissue.

 

How about through armor?

[cutsleeve]

pointy or sharp projectiles have more penetration then blunt projectiles. This is why the .308 winchester aka 7.62x51 aka 7.62 nato is considered an armor peicing round because it is a brass jacketed pointly highly areodynamic projectile. It will effective punch through all but the highest class of kevlar.

 

You have to consider that joules of energy is not the only factor that determines damage to organic structures.

you have penetration, tissue trauma, and after wound effects.

 

basically its wether the weapon can penetrate and how far it penetrates, what tissues have been hit and damaged by the weapon, and any effects which are the result from the aforementioned factors ie. a hit to the chest will cause you to slowly loose the ability to breath, a hit to the abdomine makes it almost impossible to stand or move around properly, an very lucky leg strike will cause you to bleed to death in 4 minutes if you hit just the right spot.

 

Now we know that arrows can penetrate flesh we know they can penetrate kevlar we know that in some instances it can penetrate light plate mail, chain, and leather. We know your average pistol bullet will penetrate light and heavy plate, chain, and leather mail we know it will penetrate leather and we also know there are 5 levels of kevlar and each is constructed for a specific range of caliber not against all and we know that they will penetrate flesh.

 

In truth arrows and bullets really arent that much differant they both do pretty much what they need to do.

 

They both put nice round holes in what they are pointed at.

 

just comparing joules of energy doesnt go far enough you have to study the areodynamic properties or the projectile the balistic qualities of it the general composition of it then you must weigh this against the target.

General composition of the targetbeginning at surface and then proceding with an examination at each inch of depth this will tell you how effetive a weapon will be.

 

The best way to handle this lil difficulty Use Rule Number Zero

"Common Sense is a good measure for mitigation of the little problems":D

[Col. Orange]

Originally posted by austenandrews

Eh, don't lose any sleep over real-world complexity. We're playing games here, not running scientific simulations.

 

-AA

 

Of course, someone could start a Science Hero campaign just to prove you wrong.

[pinecone]

One way to deal with the bullets vs arrows is to use the alternate "Tech level" idea out of Star hero...arrows and bullets both make nice hole in bare flesh....vs full maximillian plate an arrow does vs 8 def, a bullets goes vs 4 def, a laser/blaster goes vs 2 def....so they can all be 1.2D6 attacks yet each generation is "better".....