Hyper-Man Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. If you haven't noticed already, Cassandra's is not the only 250 point version that's been posted to this thread. My version could certainly make a contest of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. And mine would beat him like a drum. The point remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Is it really about the point, or the concept, scale, and niche. Starting to look like an MMO PvP argument..... Anyway. I've got most of my stuff set up for Posta-Palooza and I got a good DC type build ready to go as well to swerve back on topic. I'll post those tomorrow since the label on the pill bottle says I have to set aside at least 8 hours for unconsciousness.... Also got to find a game to run that version of Big E in, heh. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. And mine would beat him like a drum. The point remains. 1. The slots in the VPP are just examples for the character to fit under campaign caps. The damage & defense potentials shown are not the maximums. 2. Flight (he chooses where the fight is) & Heat Vision that can give anyone a hotfoot. 3. Super Speed; +4 Overall Levels on DCV & SuperPunch with x2 KB, AP or 1 Hex Accurate. 4. Like I said, he could make a contest out of it. The fight could easily last longer that 1 or 2 Turns. 4. We have a new thread to continue this in (The One True Son of Krypton). Let's stop the derail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. 1. The slots in the VPP are just examples for the character to fit under campaign caps. The damage & defense potentials shown are not the maximums. 2. Flight (he chooses where the fight is) & Heat Vision that can give anyone a hotfoot. 3. Super Speed; +4 Overall Levels on DCV & SuperPunch with x2 KB, AP or 1 Hex Accurate. 4. Like I said, he could make a contest out of it. The fight could easily last longer that 1 or 2 Turns. 4. We have a new thread to continue this in (The One True Son of Krypton). Let's stop the derail. We've had about 29 pages of derail. I don't think we're hurting anything. When I said "mine would beat him like a drum" I meant my Superman. Captain Brick is just an example so you can see how trying to do too many things at once hinders you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. I think the point that a versatile character will not be as powerful in any one area as a non-versatile character is a valid one. That's inescapable in a game where we use points to balance, though. We can use this to say "Superman can only be an NPC, since he must have more points in order to be as good as every other character in every niche", but the point of the game isn't to be able to build a character as an NPC, but to play the characters from the source material. A game centered on the DC Universe, and let's say the JL to be specific should, IMO, give the players the option of playing any of the heavy hitters, not playing Hawkman, the Atom and Green Arrow watching while Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Green Lantern do all the heavy lifting. Sure, your game could center around second-stringers and their efforts in the shadows of the Big Guns, but I don't think that's the typical Supers game. Agree that re-railing this thread is pretty unlikely at this point. It might be more viable to re-title this one and start a new thread for the original topic. Drift happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. We've had about 29 pages of derail. I don't think we're hurting anything. When I said "mine would beat him like a drum" I meant my Superman. Captain Brick is just an example so you can see how trying to do too many things at once hinders you. Obviously enough people thought otherwise that a separate thread was created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Obviously enough people thought otherwise that a separate thread was created. Then go post there. I'm posting in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. I'm a skill monster in comparison to her Superman. Her Superman has AK: Metropolis and PS: Reporter, both on 11-. That's it. Look at her writeup on page 3. My guy can actually fight crime, and speaks a different language. I've spent more points on skills than she did. That's the point, you see. I can drop his defenses to 30/30. I'm still tougher than her Superman. I can lower his Con to 28. I'm still tougher. I can drop his Str to 60 and I'm still stronger. All those points can go into making him a badass detective, and I'm still going to smash him in a fight. Superman has too many things that drain his points. Right back atcha. He'd be catching crooks by flying over there and using his xray vision to find while your guy would be hailing a cab. or trying to jump to the spot. Your point iis realLy escaping me. Is it Superman is too spread out to be competative with the same points. If so the point is valid for any character with lots of powers so we should always make one trick ponies.. I don't agree while you could certainly make a guy who could beat him in a fist fight with a hyper specialized character ( I guess you're Doomsday) it wouldn't invalidate the build type. Now I'm going to be polite and post any other related comments in the appropiate other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Regarding Superman as a Contact, I just give Lois Lane one as my Year One Threat. Contact [Extremely Useful] [Loyal]: Superman 18- ["Help, Superman!"] 15 Points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Sounds more like a summon to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Summon is more for Darkseid's Parademons then superheroes. Contact even a high level one is a lot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyber624 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Yeah, but cheaper isn't really a valid excuse to use, IMO. YMMV of course. I would consider it a summon because a contact will generally only provide you information and resources. Ive never heard of a contact being used to get someone to come in and fight your battles for you, or pull your s*** out of the fire, that's a summon in my book, or follower etc. I get that this is merely a "thought construct" sort of exercise, but if we don't apply most of the rules to these that you would apply to an npc/pc then IMO you are defeating the purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Wouldn't that depend on the person involved. Summon you're general bringing a single type of creatures (zombies, parademons, etc.). Contact is a specific individual. Superman is more then happy to save lives. Now if Lois was going to ask him to kill someone, or steal for her then he would have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Actually, I think it depends a lot more on what the subject does. If the subject is a contact then their influence is primarily out of combat (IMO). They might offer advice or even equipment. Maybe they'll show up to save your bacon, but that's a very rare occurrence (which is not the case with Lois. Superman is saving her all the time). Summon and Follower on the other hand are for someone who will defend you if need be (ok, some people will use them for servants and the like, but those servants would still fight for them, usually). In the end it's a question of balance. A character shouldn't be able to press the 'I win' button because they spent 21 points. Being able to reliably call upon Superman to come fight for you is a massive ability and so it should cost massive amounts of points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Let me ask you this. If Mary Marvel called for help on her Justice League radio and Superman arrived, would he fight Black Adam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Superman saving Lois is on Superman's list. Not Lois's. She has Overconfidence because she knows he's looking out for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Let me ask you this. If Mary Marvel called for help on her Justice League radio and Superman arrived' date=' would he fight Black Adam?[/quote'] From a GM perspective I would say that she calls for Superman and he's too busy saving Metropolis or something else to come to Mary Marvel's aid if a player tried this. That's unless the player purchased Superman as a Summon or Follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. What's the point of being on a team if you can't reasonably expect help from teammates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Ok. First off if we are going to put things into game terms we need to establish what Superman is. Is he a PC or an NPC? If he's a PC then you don't need Summon. He shows up when the player is available to play him. If he's an NPC then I wouldn't be putting him on the same team as a bunch of PCs because that just turns into 'this week's adventure: GM's NPC comes in and beats the snot out of all our opponents for us again'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. I didn't say anything there about Superman. I asked "What's the point of being on a team if you can't reasonably expect help from teammates?" As a GM, if the players encounter something and they need help from a character whose player got called into work that night, why then can't they reasonably expect that character to help? Now, in Cassandra's example, Mary Marvel calls the League for help. It is not unreasonable in that instance for Superman to help her if he is available. It would be just as reasonable for the entire League to show up, unless the members had other, more immediate/pressing business to attend to. Batman has been known to blow off the League if he's working a case in Gotham. He's been known to blow off a case if Bruce Wayne has to put in an appearance somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Sure. If he's available it is reasonable for him to show up. Is he controlled by a player? Is the player there? Hey, he's available. Is he an NPC? Do I want him to show up? Hey, he's available (now why did I design an adventure so that the player had to call on my overpowered NPC for help?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Is he controlled by a player? NormallyIs the player there?No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. Then I guess he's blowing off the League while he's working a case in Gotham or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design. See, if it's warranted, I have no problem bringing in a missing player's character to fill the place on the team that he normally would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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