Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

[Dr Divago]

Okei, i want to use Hero System as "Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit" for my D&D3 campaign(s)

 

i means:

to build new strange magic items, D&D is "a little" limitated, so i want try to build using Hero System:

1) converting some existing magic items in Hero System

2) modifyng or rebuilding magic items with hero

3) re-converting in D&D3 rules

 

for examples:

pick a "+3 magic longsword", and converting to Hero System.

For longsword conversion/cost i use Fantasy Hero stats;

for every "pips" i bet some CSL (1 CSL +1 OCV, 5 points, only to OCV (-½) plus 2 CSL +1 DC, 10 points, only to DC (-½))

Same cost for "flaming", "shocking" and likes ability (in D&D add a 1d6 damage from electriciti, fire, ecc; in Hero may be a 15 points +1d6 Killing attack (no range (-¼), linked to Weapon (-¼))

 

Somebody can help me?

[Selganor]

That would be a LARGE project...

 

Do you have Fantasy Hero? It might help (if only for "converting" D&D and other special abilities to HERO)

 

Another page you might find useful is:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/FantasyHERO.htm

[Pattern Ghost]

Check out Killer Shrike's site.

[badger3k]

Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

Okei, i want to use Hero System as "Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit" for my D&D3 campaign(s)

 

i means:

to build new strange magic items, D&D is "a little" limitated, so i want try to build using Hero System:

1) converting some existing magic items in Hero System

2) modifyng or rebuilding magic items with hero

3) re-converting in D&D3 rules

 

for examples:

pick a "+3 magic longsword", and converting to Hero System.

For longsword conversion/cost i use Fantasy Hero stats;

for every "pips" i bet some CSL (1 CSL +1 OCV, 5 points, only to OCV (-1/2) plus 2 CSL +1 DC, 10 points, only to DC (-1/2))

Same cost for "flaming", "shocking" and likes ability (in D&D add a 1d6 damage from electriciti, fire, ecc; in Hero may be a 15 points +1d6 Killing attack (no range (-1/4), linked to Weapon (-1/4))

 

Somebody can help me?

 

Shrike has some good stuff, so do some others (haven't the links now, though). Its pretty much as you have it - I'm working on my own stuff now - for example, a +2 flaming keen longsword is:

 

1) Hand Killing Attack, 1d6+1 vs PD (20), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Reduced END (0) (+1/2), STR min (12 STR) (-1/2), OAF (sword) (-1), Independent (-2). Total Active Cost = 40; Total Cost = 9 pts

 

2) +2 OCV (10), Only for OCV (-1/2), OAF (sword) (-1), Independent (-2). Total Active Cost = 10, total cost = 2

 

3) 2d6 EB vs ED (fire) (10), Reduced END (0) (+1/2), OAF (sword) (-1), Independent (-2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (-1/2). Total Active Cost = 15, total cost = 4

 

I generally use EB for fire, ice, etc - but usually lightning or acid get RKA - just a personal preference. I also prefer to use EB since the effects in 3e are not that big, especially at higher levels. Doing an extra 2-12 points stun is IMO a better conversion than an extra 1d6 body and 1 to 30 stun.

 

I generally try to build the items individually, but am working (off and on) on the base abilities to add to items. For example - the Ghost touch ability is:

 

Naked advantage of Affects Desolidified for 60 point power. (+1/2)

 

OAF weapon (-1)

Independent (-2)

 

Active 30 points, Real 7 points. I used 60 ponts as the base because most weapons in FH are 60 active points of less. The cost can be adjusted for particular weapons, or used as is. Of course, the ghost touch also allows a insubstantial/desolidified character to use it to attack the real world, but I HR that since it already affects the real world, the ADesolid lets it be picked up and wielded (I suppose a naked advantage of Affects real world could also be used).

 

Just some samples of what I did.

 

 

There's also a bunch of threads here dealing with conversions.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by badger3k

1) Hand Killing Attack, 1d6+1 vs PD (20), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Reduced END (0) (+1/2), STR min (12 STR) (-1/2), OAF (sword) (-1), Independent (-2). Total Active Cost = 40; Total Cost = 9 pts

 

2) +2 OCV (10), Only for OCV (-1/2), OAF (sword) (-1), Independent (-2). Total Active Cost = 10, total cost = 2

 

3) 2d6 EB vs ED (fire) (10), Reduced END (0) (+1/2), OAF (sword) (-1), Independent (-2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (-1/2). Total Active Cost = 15, total cost = 4

 

I generally use EB for fire, ice, etc - but usually lightning or acid get RKA - just a personal preference. I also prefer to use EB since the effects in 3e are not that big, especially at higher levels. Doing an extra 2-12 points stun is IMO a better conversion than an extra 1d6 body and 1 to 30 stun.

The fact is: in D&D are only Hit Points;

sword inflict HP, and flaming attack also inflict HP

so if a sword becomes an HKA, so a flaming attack become RKA (with no range, etc etc)

 

 

Just some samples of what I did.

Ok tenx

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

The fact is: in D&D are only Hit Points;

sword inflict HP, and flaming attack also inflict HP

so if a sword becomes an HKA, so a flaming attack become RKA (with no range, etc etc)

 

 

 

Ok tenx

 

I actually have an old article I wrote for Haymaker back in the day for converting HERO characters into AD&D 2e.

 

I might be able to dig up a copy and eyeball it for 3e, if it would be useful...

 

Also, Shadowcat, who I think is secretly a machine intelligence who never sleeps, has sent me copious amounts of converted 2e items. I havent had time to review them yet and make sure they comply with the item creation guidelines used in my content (as I plan to finish spells first before putting up magic items and have been spending all my time on that), but I could certainly send them your way in the meantime if Shadowcat doesnt mind.

[badger3k]

Re: Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

The fact is: in D&D are only Hit Points;

sword inflict HP, and flaming attack also inflict HP

so if a sword becomes an HKA, so a flaming attack become RKA (with no range, etc etc)

 

 

 

Ok tenx

 

Just to point out why I did it that way - D&D characters have a ridiculous amount of HP (as we all know, I'm sure:) ). Hero has Body and Stun. Unless we're going to give characters BODY like D&D HP (no way am I giving any character 170 BODY, for example, unless its a god), I decided to make the bonus energy as Stun. I think Shrike and Shadowcat probably have some kind of conversion or formula for HP to Body/Stun (sorry - I only downloaded the spell data to look at, haven't looked at the rest in a while).

 

My thoughts were that a sword that does 1d6+1 HKA, and adds another d6KA is overly powerful (since in D&D, for even a lower-level character it probably won't kill them, but a 2d6+1 KA in Hero could kill even a high level hero, unless he has a huge Body score). I figured the Stun damage would balance out the equation somewhat. Hope that helps explain my reasoning on that issue..

[Killer Shrike]

This is what my HERO->AD&D conversion doc had to say about damage back then:

Damage

In AD&D there is only 1 kind of damage, which can be considered to be equivalent to Killing, unless you use the optional boxing\wrestling rules which is handled the same way except that someone reduced to below 0 HP is unconscious instead of dead. I would suggest doing a direct conversion, i.e. 1d6 of killing damage in HERO's equals 1d6 in AD&D. Normal damage can either be treated as boxing damage or be converted by damage level (i.e. 3d6 of Normal STUN Damage = 1d6 of Killing damage = 1d6 of AD&D damage). If you choose too, also convert a HERO's characters Strike damage, so that a 50 STR Super would do 3d6 AD&D damage with a punch (50 STR=10d6, 10/3=3.333 round down to 3) and a 55 STR Super would do 4d6 (55 STR=11d6, 11/3=3.666 round up to 4). Other forms of direct damage such as NND, EGO Attacks, and Drains vs. Body can be figured by their cost, so that a 3d6 NND would become a 2d6 attack in AD&D, perhaps ignoring AC bonuses from Armor.

 

Normal Killing AD&D

3d6 = 1d6 = 1d6

 

If this turns out to be too high or low for a particular GM's tastes adjust up or down as needed/desired.

 

The effects of Advantages that increase the effectiveness of damage should be determined by the GM before hand and can range from ignored to fully enabled.

 

For example: a GM might decide that Penetrating attacks loose that special ability, or that the damage be converted based on active points so that the character gets more damage minus the advantage, or that a penetrating attack always causes a minimum of 1d6 points of damage per die regardless of special defenses, or even that a Penetrating attack hits when the attack misses by 1 (i.e. a 13 is needed and a 12 is rolled). So long as the GM is consistent with a particular method, it all comes out in the wash.

 

 

In 3e things like Penetrating and AP could translate into a higher crit range, of course.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by badger3k

Just to point out why I did it that way - D&D characters have a ridiculous amount of HP (as we all know, I'm sure:) ).

i know, i know...

 

Unless we're going to give characters BODY like D&D HP (no way am I giving any character 170 BODY, for example, unless its a god), I decided to make the bonus energy as Stun. I think Shrike and Shadowcat probably have some kind of conversion or formula for HP to Body/Stun

[snip]

My thoughts were that a sword that does 1d6+1 HKA, and adds another d6KA is overly powerful (since in D&D, for even a lower-level character it probably won't kill them, but a 2d6+1 KA in Hero could kill even a high level hero, unless he has a huge Body score). I figured the Stun damage would balance out the equation somewhat. Hope that helps explain my reasoning on that issue..

Okei but if DnD HP is converted in stunning damage, normal sword will be "Normal", not Killing damaging weapon

 

A good solution may be

originally posted by Killer Shrike

I would suggest doing a direct conversion, i.e. 1d6 of killing damage in HERO's equals 1d6 in AD&D. Normal damage can either be treated as boxing damage or be converted by damage level (i.e. 3d6 of Normal STUN Damage = 1d6 of Killing damage = 1d6 of AD&D damage).

So a flaming sword damage rating will be 1d6 HKA for the sword and 3d6 for the flaming ability. Pretty useful, but not so letal, do you agree?

 

Anyway, will be extremely useful converting all special ability form Dungeon's Master Guide (and handbook) in FREd power/advantage and viceversa, conerting advantage in special ability (example are converting Penetrating with Increased Critical Range (Keen ability))

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

So a flaming sword damage rating will be 1d6 HKA for the sword and 3d6 for the flaming ability. Pretty useful, but not so letal, do you agree?

 

Not to lethal? What scale are you on? Most D&D3e weapons do around 1d6 damage. The heaviest does 2d6 (Greatsword). A weapon inflicting 4d6 like in your example would be about twice as "lethal" than a normal Greatsword.

 

 

Another point, D&D3e hitpoints dont represent BODY per se -- or how much damage you can take directly -- it represents how able you are to avoid actual damage, like a built in "just missed me" mechanic. This is described in detail on page 128 of the 3e PHB under the heading "What Hit Points represent". The number of hit points of damage a character takes is also relative to their total, not a flat measurement; frex the text says "A 10th level Fighter who has taken 50 hp may be about as physically hurt as a 10th level wizard who has taken 30 points of damage, the 1st level fighter that has taken 5 points of damage or the 1st level wizard that has taken 3."

 

Effectively the only range of hitpoints that actually matters is the last 10 points or so --the range at which the next hit has a good chance to drop you into unconsciousness -- down to -10 (dead). The rest is just a buffer.

[Tae Kwon Dan]

Ah-ha a post related to HERO that I can weigh in on.

 

For HP have you considered converting the Vitality\Wound system from D20 Star Wars\Modern\CoC\EveryNonD&DGame to your D&D campaign? If you do that then ability to differentiate between damage types becomes much easier. Just treat Vitality as Stun and Wounds as Body.

 

A sword then becomes a HTH attack unless there is a successful critical in which case it's linked to a HKA. I personally have no desire to convert my D&D game to HERO so I haven't thought anymore about the conversion than the above, but it could be a start.

[badger3k]

Re: Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

i know, i know...

 

Sorry if it sounded bad - I meant that the I think someone in a coma for the last 40 years would wake up and know that D&D characters have lots of hp. Meant it as a joke.

 

Okei but if DnD HP is converted in stunning damage, normal sword will be "Normal", not Killing damaging weapon

 

A good solution may be

 

So a flaming sword damage rating will be 1d6 HKA for the sword and 3d6 for the flaming ability. Pretty useful, but not so letal, do you agree?

 

That's pretty much what I did, except I used 2d6 normal instead of 3d6, so its close (I assume you mean 3d6N, not 3d6K) - the other way using Shrikes conversion would put it at a +1 pip KA, not too useful. So yeah, I agree that it works.

 

Anyway, will be extremely useful converting all special ability form Dungeon's Master Guide (and handbook) in FREd power/advantage and viceversa, conerting advantage in special ability (example are converting Penetrating with Increased Critical Range (Keen ability))

 

Yeah - its fun to translate stuff - one of the many projects I'm working on (off and on) - only have 10 properties so far, but I'll go back to them when I get time.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Dan

Ah-ha a post related to HERO that I can weigh in on.

 

For HP have you considered converting the Vitality\Wound system from D20 Star Wars\Modern\CoC\EveryNonD&DGame to your D&D campaign? If you do that then ability to differentiate between damage types becomes much easier. Just treat Vitality as Stun and Wounds as Body.

 

A sword then becomes a HTH attack unless there is a successful critical in which case it's linked to a HKA. I personally have no desire to convert my D&D game to HERO so I haven't thought anymore about the conversion than the above, but it could be a start.

 

I considered that - it works pretty well as an idea - the BODY of a character equals the D&D characters CON, with the rest being STUN. I haven't translated anyone over, though, so I can't see how well it works (not too well at lower levels, but as a default, the character can translate with the minimum Body/Stun that he'd have from characteristics, no matter what his HP). That would make all special effects as Normal Damage, since only crits do Wound damage (as a general rule) - especially nasty/lethal abilities can do Wound damage (KA). The more I think about it, the more I like it. Thanks.

 

Note - found when I looked that Modern works off the HP system, so does Wheel of Time d20, Judge Dredd, Deadlands, Armageddon 2089 - most of the systems I have follow the HP model - only Traveller 20 (T20) uses a similar system (stamina and Lifeblood - I like the names). Both sci-fi games.

[Tae Kwon Dan]

Egads you're right. I just checked my Modern book and it does use HP as does CoC. It must be a Sci-fi thing to cut back on the lethality of the game. I know a lot of D&D players that have adopted it though.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Not to lethal? What scale are you on? Most D&D3e weapons do around 1d6 damage. The heaviest does 2d6 (Greatsword). A weapon inflicting 4d6 like in your example would be about twice as "lethal" than a normal Greatsword.

I mean: not so lethal in DnD like in Hero; i think converting Hero's STUN damage in HP of DnD; but so, 1d6 Killing + 3d6 Normal is a bitter lethal for Hero but converting in a "1d6 hp + 1d6 flaming hp" in DnD, so not so lethal in DnD like in Hero

 

yes, this is only for "ultimate gamer's toolkit" purpose, so i can ignore this problem but...

 

btw:

I hate conception of "hp are how well a PC can evade attack". I think must play DnD with class, levels, loto of HP and like, without thinking about "realism" or give elaborate explanation; if i want play a serious RPG, i don't play DnD (but a "serious" game :D )

[Solomon]

Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

Okei, i want to use Hero System as "Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit" for my D&D3 campaign(s)

 

i means:

to build new strange magic items, D&D is "a little" limitated, so i want try to build using Hero System:

1) converting some existing magic items in Hero System

2) modifyng or rebuilding magic items with hero

3) re-converting in D&D3 rules

 

Somebody can help me?

 

I'm not sure I got this right. Are you asking how HERO power levels (ie Character Points) relate to D&D power levels (ie spell levels and item levels)?

[Alcamtar]

Some ideas... I haven't playtested any of this, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

D&D is designed with the expectation that PCs will face opponents that provide a reasonable challenge. Put another way, orcs are not a "fair challenge" for a 10th level party, unless they have levels.

 

D&D is thus designed so that adventurers "outgrow" certain challenges and move on to other challenges as their career progresses. At first level you fight orcs, at second level you fight ghouls, at fourth level trolls, at seventh level vampires... Since the power level of monsters always keeps pace with the PCs, you could simulate D&D in a a level-less system by simply cycling through a list of monsters. For example, you could send a 75+75 pt party up against 150 pt orcs at "first level", 150 pt ghouls at "second level", 150 point vampires at "seventh level"...

 

For this reason, I don't advocate translating "levels" into Hero terms. Instead, try to convert things in terms of levels, and then convert that one generic level into Hero terms. For example, if you decide that a "level" means +1 attack bonus and 5 hit points, then an 4 HD "level four" ogre with 36 hit points and +5 to attack has x1.8 hp and x1.25 BAB, per level. Converted into HERO terms, if the campaign standard is 10 BODY and +6 OCV, the ogre should have 18 BODY and OCV 7 or 8.

 

This is only a very rough approach of course, especially since D&D is linear and Hero is not. But in terms of spells and magic items...

 

A fireball does 1d6 per level in D&D, with no save. If you assume 5 hp per level for typical charaters (HD 1d8), the fireball does 70% of the victim's hit points, or 35% if they save. In HERO, 70% of 10 BODY is 7 points, or 2d6 killing. You could say it's 6d6 NND does BODY, defense is a DEX roll to avoid, or you could say it's 2d6K and let armor DEF stand in place of the saving throw.

 

HASTE and MULTIPLE ATTACKS

 

A D&D round is 6 seconds, so there are two D&D rounds per Hero Turn. If you treat all characters as SPD 2, then a Haste spell should add +20 SPD. All creatures should convert to the same SPD if you want to match D&D.

 

A SPD 2 character can still make multiple attacks using the Sweep maneuver. Each additional attack adds -2 OCV; each additional attack in D&D adds -5 to hit; so we have a 5:2 equivalence of CSLs for purposes of multiple attacks. For every +5 BAB the D&D character has, give them +2 skill levels in all combat (8-pt CSLs). So, a 17th level fighter with 4 attacks per round should have +6 CSLs, in addition to any other CSLs.

 

So,

+2 All Combat CSL per +5 BAB (starting at BAB+6)

Also,

+1 Hand-to-Hand CSL per +1 STR bonus in D&D

+1 Ranged Combat CSL per +1 DEX bonus in D&D

+1 All Combat CSL (for DCV) per +1 DEX AC bonus in D&D

 

I'd suggest:

 

D&D hit die at first level = HERO BODY

D&D bonus HP due to CON = extra HERO BODY

D&D bonus AC due to DEX = HERO base DCV from DEX

D&D hit dice progression = HERO CSLs (DCV)

D&D missile attack bonus due to DEX = HERO base OCV from DEX

D&D melee attack bonus due to STR = HERO base OCV from DEX

D&D BAB progression = HERO CSLs (OCV)

D&D AC due to armor = HERO armor DEF

D&D Feats = HERO CSLs, Martial Maneuvers, Talents, Powers

 

I don't mean to convert these exactly, just trying to match concepts between the two systems. I'd suggest as a starting point

 

HERO stats derived from D&D stats

STR,DEX,CON convert directly

BODY = (starting HP from HD) + (CON bonus)

PD,ED,END,STUN = figured normally

 

For example, Grug the 7th level fighter, with

STR 18, CON 14, DEX 12, BAB +7/+2, HD 7d10+14, hp 57

Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization

AC 20 (+8 plate, +1 shield, +1 Dex)

Attacks

+12/+7 Longsword 1d8+4+2

+8/+3 Longbow 1d8

 

In Hero,

STR 18, CON 14, DEX 12, BODY 12

+2 OCV w/All Combat (two attacks per round)

+4 OCV w/Melee Combat (from strength)

+1 OCV w/Longsword (weapon focus)

+1 OCV w/Ranged Combat (from dexterity)

+1 DCV w/All Combat (from dexterity)

 

OCV = 12/3 + 7 = 11 (longsword) or 8 (longbow)

DCV = 12/3 + 1 = 5 (no shield) or 7 (with shield)

 

If the OCV looks high, remember this guy should be Sweeping every round unless he needs to move...

 

If Grug were a wizard with 12 STR,

BODY = 6 (4 for base hp, plus CON bonus)

His BAB is +3, no multiple attacks, so

OCV = 12/3 + 1 = 5 (hand-to-hand) or 5 (ranged attacks)

DCV = 12/4 + 1 (dex) = 5

I'd give him CSLs with spells equal to a fighter of the same level, however, so +2 OCV w/Spells (stacking with the Ranged CSL).

 

Just like in D&D, he'll be easy to hit, and his fireball damage (2d6K, or 6d6N) is greater than his ability to soak that damage.

 

His Mage Armor spell grants +4 AC, which I'd interpret either as 4 DEF (+8 AC is equal to 8 DEF, so it's 1:1...) His Shield spell grants +4 AC vs missiles, which I'd interpret as +2 DCV (either using the 2/5 rule, or interpreting it as a "shield" per the spell description).

 

His magic missile does the same average base damage as a fireball, but only scales every other level, so treat it as half damage: 1d6K. Even with autofire this should be survivable except to a wizard.

 

----

 

I didn't add anything level-related to the character. Finish him with 1 martial maneuver per level. Maybe add +1 STUN and +1 END per level if you like, to give him "staying power".

 

This does not give a nice round "X character points per level" but I think it provides a decent ballpark conversion. Points per level conversions are never precise and usually end up fudging this or that to make the points fit.

 

Mike

[Solomon]

Originally posted by Alcamtar

A fireball does 1d6 per level in D&D, with no save. If you assume 5 hp per level for typical charaters (HD 1d8), the fireball does 70% of the victim's hit points, or 35% if they save. In HERO, 70% of 10 BODY is 7 points, or 2d6 killing. You could say it's 6d6 NND does BODY, defense is a DEX roll to avoid, or you could say it's 2d6K and let armor DEF stand in place of the saving throw.

 

In the fireball example, Alcamtar apparently forgets HERO already has a game mechanic for avoiding AoE attacks (diving for cover), so you don't need to build a "saving throw" mechanic into an HERO AoE attack.

 

That's why I don't usually like to convert directly from a game system into another game system. Converting should be a two-step process.

a) Ask yourself what fictional element do the rules in game A represent.

Find a way to represent the same fictional element in game B.

 

So, a D&D fireball easily translates into a RKA with Explosion. Why should it be a NND? It's not like you're having Orcs faint from excessive heat - you're blasting them right out of existence!

Also, I don't really care if in D&D a fireball does the same damage throughout its area - in HERO I'd buy it as an explosion because it's what it does look like.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Solomon

In the fireball example, Alcamtar apparently forgets HERO already has a game mechanic for avoiding AoE attacks (diving for cover), so you don't need to build a "saving throw" mechanic into an HERO AoE attack.

This is how I treat it as well. A combination of DCV and D4C = Reflex Save. I do Evasion as Flying Dodge. I also house rule that Combat Luck does not protect you from a non-accurate AoE unless there is a open hex on at least one side of the character, and if Combat Luck is used vs the AoE (players option), the character is moved to that empty square as a non-action that takes no time (even if the character could not otherwise abort or move). Any damage over Combat Luck and other Defenses is still taken of course.

 

Originally posted by Solomon

That's why I don't usually like to convert directly from a game system into another game system. Converting should be a two-step process.

a) Ask yourself what fictional element do the rules in game A represent.

Find a way to represent the same fictional element in game B.

This is my approach as well. I prefer to express a concept from one game system loosely in a target system by equivalency rather than direct mapping.

 

Some concepts from 1 game system are so rooted in the mechanics of that system that they have no parrallel (are meaningless) in the target games system and I generally just drop these unless its crucial to the "look and feel" desired.

 

Otherwise I opt for a version of the ability in question that makes sense in the target system even if its not "exact". In other circumstances Ill just keep the name of the ability and go a completely different route if I think it more appropriate in the target system.

 

Originally posted by Solomon

So, a D&D fireball easily translates into a RKA with Explosion. Why should it be a NND? It's not like you're having Orcs faint from excessive heat - you're blasting them right out of existence!

Also, I don't really care if in D&D a fireball does the same damage throughout its area - in HERO I'd buy it as an explosion because it's what it does look like.

 

Fireball Spells

 

I provide several versions of Fireball explicitly for Evocation, using Radius and Explosive both, and also both an RKA version and a EB version. I prefer the Radius as that is closer to how the spell works in the source material, but Explosion is marginally more efficient, particularly as it makes it easer to use in packed quarters (you may catch your buddies on the outer edges but only do 1d6 damage to them -- w/ Radius if they are in they take the full brunt of course).

 

There are also a number of variant Fireball type effects under Pyromancy, with different names and slightly different builds.

 

Pyromancy Spells

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Re: Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by badger3k

Just to point out why I did it that way - D&D characters have a ridiculous amount of HP (as we all know, I'm sure:) ). Hero has Body and Stun. Unless we're going to give characters BODY like D&D HP (no way am I giving any character 170 BODY, for example, unless its a god), I decided to make the bonus energy as Stun. I think Shrike and Shadowcat probably have some kind of conversion or formula for HP to Body/Stun (sorry - I only downloaded the spell data to look at, haven't looked at the rest in a while).

 

3e:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/conversion3e.shtml

 

2e:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion2e/conversion2e.shtml

 

For 3e (Hit Points/15) +10 Body; or if going to D&D (BODY - 10) * 15 = Hit Points.

 

For 2e (Hit Points / 10 + 8); or if going the other way (BODY -8) * 10.

 

So if your character has 20 BODY in the HERO System, they convert backwards to 150 hp in 3e or 120 hp in AD&D 2e.

 

Characters generally have more hp in 3e than in 2e.

 

Originally posted by badger3k

My thoughts were that a sword that does 1d6+1 HKA, and adds another d6KA is overly powerful (since in D&D, for even a lower-level character it probably won't kill them, but a 2d6+1 KA in Hero could kill even a high level hero, unless he has a huge Body score). I figured the Stun damage would balance out the equation somewhat. Hope that helps explain my reasoning on that issue..

 

Depends on if you are using Hit Locations or not. For High Fantasy I do not use Hit Locations personally. A 2d6 +1 KA is going to average around 8 BODY, which will completely bounce off of Plate Mail or "Magic" Armor built as a Power wit more DEF than its Mundane Equivalent such as "Magic Chainmail" bought as 10PD/5ED or some such.

 

Also, 2 Levels of Combat Luck and even mundane leather Armor would bounce an average attack as well. That 12 character points for the CL, and nothing for the Armor (save perhaps an Armor Familiarity if you use them (I do -- 2 points for Light Armor, 2 for Medium and 2 from Heavy; plus Medium and Heavy Armor impose Dex and DCV penalties of -1 and -2 respectively which can be offset by PSLs)).

 

Heres how I handle Weapons & Armor, although its just an example subsystem and doesnt need to be used to use the rest of the content provided on my website:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/armamentsNotes.shtml

 

A max roll on a 2d6 +1 (13 Body) would still not kill the average armored opponent, although they would likely feel it unless wearing some serious armor and/or have a lot of Combat Luck.

 

Deadly Blow would certainly dial this up into the "Oh-$#!^" zone, but thats not immediately relevant.

 

In Low, Epic, or S&S Fantasy on the HERO System w/ the grit turned up using Hit Locations, 2d6+1 is really lethal as you point out, but remember that in D&D 3e characters get iterative attacks per action, so they effectively have a limited Autofire going for them on the D&D side. So that 2d6 Flaming Sword could strike 3 or 4 times in D&D3e per round at higher levels. Add in criticals, and 2d6 is pretty lethal in 3e.

 

In AD&D its not as lethal since only fighters really get a lot of attacks, but they are the only class really like to expect to kill something quickly w/ a sword. Clerics dont use them, Wizards cant hit with them, and Rogues need the Backstab multiple to really be effective. On the flip side however, characters have fewer hit points than in 3e, expecially at over 9th level as most classes stop granting rolls for bonus Hit Points where as in 3e you keep getting Hit Points all the way up the scale. You also start w/ max HP for your 1st level Hit Die in 3e, giving a further edge. With fewer overall HP available, a 2d6 Sword is still fairly lethal in the hands of a fighter class or sub-class but measurably less lethal in the hands of other character types. Regardless, its on par with other swords in that range in the context of 2e so it all works out fairly well IMO.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Solomon

I'm not sure I got this right. Are you asking how HERO power levels (ie Character Points) relate to D&D power levels (ie spell levels and item levels)?

One moment please...

i don't want to convert D&D mechanics in HERO or viceversa...

 

i want to use hero to create magic items for D&D

so, starting from an existing item for D&D (for example, a +1 flaming sword), converting in Hero only to create a new D&D magic item (-½) :) then reconverting back in D&D

 

my purpose is not to transform a D&D campaign in Hero or viceversa,only use Hero to make D&D item more interesting

 

(For Solomon:Salve!, posti anche su IHGG??)

[Tae Kwon Dan]

I'm not certain how HERO helps with that then. Making new magic items for D&D is about coming up with an effect that you want and then pricing it correctly.

 

HERO is a resource kit for overall mechanics. Where exactly does HERO help if a lot of the HERO mechanics do not translate directly into D&D.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Re: Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit for D&D3

 

Originally posted by Dr Divago

One moment please...

i don't want to convert D&D mechanics in HERO or viceversa...

 

i want to use hero to create magic items for D&D

so, starting from an existing item for D&D (for example, a +1 flaming sword), converting in Hero only to create a new D&D magic item (-½) :) then reconverting back in D&D

 

What do you think youre doing then? Creating an item in the HERO System and then "reconverting back in D&D" by its very nature requires you to convert some mechanics btwn the 2 systems -- its in the very statement of what you want to do.

 

So what you are saying is: "I WANT TO CONVERT HERO System mechanics into D&D in the form of Weapons built with the Power Construct rules, but I DONT WANT TO CONVERT mechanics between the two systems."

 

Obviously the statement has some mutual exclusivity. Its like saying: "I want to PAINT MY HOUSE, but I DONT WANT ANY PAINTING to occur"

 

Maybe there is a language barrier issue going on here?

[Solomon]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

One moment please...

i don't want to convert D&D mechanics in HERO or viceversa...

 

i want to use hero to create magic items for D&D

so, starting from an existing item for D&D (for example, a +1 flaming sword), converting in Hero only to create a new D&D magic item (-½) :) then reconverting back in D&D

 

my purpose is not to transform a D&D campaign in Hero or viceversa,only use Hero to make D&D item more interesting

 

(For Solomon:Salve!, posti anche su IHGG??)

 

I'll assume you just picked up a copy of HERO. If that's the case, let me please point out a difference:

Making up a character in D&D looks like going to a fast food...

 

Customer: "I'd like a cheeseburger"

McDungeons Employee: "With what?"

Customer: "Small fries and a soda"

 

Player: "I'd like to play a dwarf"

DM: "What class"

Player: "A cleric of Moradin"

 

That's it, mostly. Please notice, this is not derogatory. I play D&D a lot and still like it. I'ts quick and fun. But making a character in D&D is still mostly about mixing and matching a finite number of choices.

 

HERO looks more like a cooking area. You can whip up wonderful dishes if you just know what to do, but randomly assembling ingredients won't do. HERO just isn't a mix-and-match system like D&D. You need to come up with a clear, well defined concept first.

 

Let's try with an exemple, maybe that will make things easier. Is there an original spell or item you've been thinking about inserting in your campaign? Describe it.

 

PS for Killer Shrike: Of course there is a language barrier... both Dr Divago and I are Italians, in case you didn't notice! Cue music: Theme from the Godfather

 

PS per Dr Divago: Scusa se ho scritto tutta sta roba in inglese... adesso ti mando un messaggio.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Solomon

PS for Killer Shrike: Of course there is a language barrier... both Dr Divago and I are Italians, in case you didn't notice! Cue music: Theme from the Godfather

I noticed; thats what I was referencing -- if maybe Dr. Dhivago thinks he's saying something other than what comes across in his posts and thus the confusion.

 

My wife is a Czech, and English is her 3rd or 4th language, so I am well familiar with situations where she is saying something in English that does not mean what she thinks it means. We go around and around on things sometimes only to finally figure out that the problem is that she really meant something other than what she said.