jdounis Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hello fellow Hero fans and a happy new year I have recently acquired CC, being a Hero player from 5th Edition Revised.I really like this book and i haven't had any problem with it, but only because i own 6EV1 & V2, i think much stuff in it require from the reader further clarification from the 6EV1 & V2.For example i don't think a new to Hero reader(Owning only CC) will ever apply the Adding Damage Rules to an Advantaged power correctly because this is only indirectly referenced before the adding damage rules in CC. Just my humble opinion. Also where can i download errata now that the old site is closed? Thank you in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I didn't see the errata in the downloads section. I attached a copy of the CC freebie & errata that was posted. Champs Complete Freebies And Errata.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I have recently acquired CC, being a Hero player from 5th Edition Revised.I really like this book and i haven't had any problem with it, but only because i own 6EV1 & V2, i think much stuff in it require from the reader further clarification from the 6EV1 & V2.For example i don't think a new to Hero reader(Owning only CC) will ever apply the Adding Damage Rules to an Advantaged power correctly because this is only indirectly referenced before the adding damage rules in CC. I don't follow. Adding Damage (CC pg 157) is pretty clear to me. Can you pop a page number and short quote on what part is unclear? I'm going to be introducing some players to HERO soon and it would be helpful to have an idea of where the rules may be unclear in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdounis Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't follow. Adding Damage (CC pg 157) is pretty clear to me. Can you pop a page number and short quote on what part is unclear? I'm going to be introducing some players to HERO soon and it would be helpful to have an idea of where the rules may be unclear in the books. My biggest concern about new players are with the "Damage Classes DC"(CC pg 156) where it's written that damage classes are calculated using the formule active points / 5 = DC, but it does not at all refer to how is this applied to Adding Damage to an advantaged attack power. The same section writes about the "special Active Point calculation" but i am sure nobody owning/reading only CC will get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hmmm... I read it and it all makes perfect sense, when wearing my old HERO grognard hat that is. Then I noticed there isn't a basic Damage Class table in CC like the one in the HSBR page 101. DC is such a basic core concept that many of us tend to forget it may not immediately make a lot of sense to a new player. Now that I am thinking about it, I have used the DC Table several times when teaching a new player. Here is the basic idea. DC Killing Normal1 1 pip 1d62 ½d6 2d63 1d6 3d64 1d6+1 4d65 1½d6 5d66 2d6 6d67 2d6+1 7d68 2½d6 8d69 3d6 9d610 3d6+1 10d611 3½d6 11d612 4d6 12d613 4d6+1 13d614 4½d6 14d615 5d6 15d6 1d6 Killing and 3d6 Normal are both 3 DC and generally 15 points. Usually just one glance at the chart clicks the concept in place and you don't really need it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdounis Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hmmm... I read it and it all makes perfect sense, when wearing my old HERO grognard hat that is. Then I noticed there isn't a basic Damage Class table in CC like the one in the HSBR page 101. DC is such a basic core concept that many of us tend to forget it may not immediately make a lot of sense to a new player. Now that I am thinking about it, I have used the DC Table several times when teaching a new player. Here is the basic idea. DC Killing Normal 1 1 pip 1d6 2 ½d6 2d6 3 1d6 3d6 4 1d6+1 4d6 5 1½d6 5d6 6 2d6 6d6 7 2d6+1 7d6 8 2½d6 8d6 9 3d6 9d6 10 3d6+1 10d6 11 3½d6 11d6 12 4d6 12d6 13 4d6+1 13d6 14 4½d6 14d6 15 5d6 15d6 1d6 Killing and 3d6 Normal are both 3 DC and generally 15 points. Usually just one glance at the chart clicks the concept in place and you don't really need it anymore. Yeah i don't disagree that DC are pretty straightforward in all books(CC,HSBR,HS6EV1,2) what is not straightforward in CC is the concept off adding damage to Advantaged Attack Powers. For example if we follow the instructions in CC pg.156 that starts "For attacks with advantages... " and we make that special Active Point calculation for lets say an attack with Base Cose 20 Points and with an Advantage(that modifies the way the victim takes damage) of +1/2, that equals 30 Active Points, and apply it to the above paragraph of "An attack’s DC is based on the number of Active Points in it divided by 5" we have no information on how the "Adding Damage" rules of CC.pg 157 apply to this CP/DC ratio, the information that is missing is that of HS6EV2 pg.97("Damage Classes of Advantaged Power") which is pretty crusial for game balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Ah! And the light comes on. I can be dense at times. I think this would be best served with a specific example detailing its Added Damage. The big issue here is that it is up to the individual GM to rule on what applies. They may not have added an example because of the tendency for rulebook examples to become cut in stone interpretations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 i don't think a new to Hero reader(Owning only CC) will ever apply the Adding Damage Rules to an Advantaged power correctly because this is only indirectly referenced before the adding damage rules in CC. I don't know that people who have been playing Hero for decades will ever apply the Adding Damage Rules for Advantaged Attacks correctly even with 6E1 and 6E2 to guide them. The adding damage rules have become Byzantine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I don't know that people who have been playing Hero for decades will ever apply the Adding Damage Rules for Advantaged Attacks correctly even with 6E1 and 6E2 to guide them. The adding damage rules have become Byzantine. Actually the 6E versions is a ton easier then the 5E version. No more seperation between heroic and superheroic. No more seperation between Sources of DC. It's now a totally uniform process from STR to Haymaker. The only thing you really have to keep in mind is that Powers with advantages that Affect the DC calulcation have a different DC/Die Ratio. that does not even affect adding DC at all: 12DC+4DC = 16 DC. Wheter those 12 DC are a "12d6 Blast", or a "8D6 +1/2" doesn't really mater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yep.es The hardest part now is just determining which Advantages on a HA actually contribute to damage (ex: Reduced END does not so isn't counted). You just add up all the relevant Advantages together and divide ALL the bonus DC (from STR, Manuever and CSL's) by that fraction. From 6e2 page 98: Advantages That Directly Affect DamageAs noted above, for purposes of calculating the DCs of an Advantaged attack, the GM determines which Advantages “directly affect how the victim takes damage.” Typically the following Advantages qualify, though the final decision is up to the GM: Area Of Effect, Armor Piercing, AVAD, Autofire, Boostable Charges, Constant, Cumulative, Damage Over Time, Does BODY, Does Knockback, Double Knockback, Increased STUN Multiplier, MegaScale in some instances, Penetrating, Sticky, Time Limit, Transdimensional, Trigger, Uncontrolled, Usable As Attack, Variable Advantage, and Variable Special Effects. Example: Say we build a HA +6d6 (30 Active Points) with Half END (+1/4) AOE 1m Accurate (+1/2) and IPE Normal Sight (+1/4) (60 Active Points) Since only the AOE Accurate (+1/2) actually "directly affects how the victim takes damage" so any bonus DC's from STR, Manuevers and CSL's just needs to be totaled and divided by 1.5 (just like applying a Limitation) before being combined with the HA's base 6 DC's. It actually IS easier than the way it was done in 5er. Far less exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I don't know that people who have been playing Hero for decades will ever apply the Adding Damage Rules for Advantaged Attacks correctly even with 6E1 and 6E2 to guide them. The adding damage rules have become Byzantine. I don't think it is as much doing it correctly as just ignoring parts of it because they don't want to bother, not that I would ever do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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