Grenades Delivered By Others

[Rapier]

Background: I've got an electricity blaster. He's got a fairly normal build, as blasters go. All his attacks are dumped into a fairly large MP.

 

One of the things I've been considering is an electric grenade.  He loads up a blast of electricity into the grenade and wraps it in an electric field to keep it stable, but the field will degenerate over a couple of phases and then it will explode.  The plan is to form a grenade, hand it to the brick and let her get in close and deliver it along with a big smack to the head.  Or, of course, just use them as regular grenades or use them to mine a hallway or whatever.  Whether this ends up being a little globe of energy or more of a damage shield UOO, I haven't decided yet.  

 

I was thinking Trigger was the easiest way to go. I was considering a range of detonation times from 1 to 3 phases, which would be Variable Trigger (I think).  But the reset is kind of strange. There isn't, technically, a reset of the trigger.  It's one and done.  So maybe Trigger isn't the way to go.

 

Delayed Effect?  Delayed Effect seems to be more straight forward, but there is that whole deal about how the caster decides when to cast it.  Which might be ok, both thematically and operationally.  Instead of having a countdown he just decides when to let it blow.  Delayed Effect has that caveat about how it can only be used in campaigns where there is a limit to the number of active powers, but we can probably ignore that bit.

 

But I do already have a damage shield. Maybe just add UOO to it?  But then we are going down the Uncontrolled path and that is going to get pretty darned expensive real fast.

 

Any thoughts?  Oh, and obviously I'm talking about an xd6 Blast with Explosive AOE.

 

 

[L. Marcus]

Wouldn't the Reset of the Trigger be simply forming a new grenade-globe?

[Greywind]

You wanna wrap electricity in electricity so that someone can carry it around?

[Rapier]

You wanna wrap electricity in electricity so that someone can carry it around?

 

I want to store a charge inside of a stable electric field, so...yes.

[Christopher]

The thing with "Brick grenade Dilvery Service" is that this might go into UBO territory.

If you use this once or twice, not a problem. But if this is going to be a regular tactic, balance issues could arise. As you describe it you add Electricity Damage to the Main Attack of the Brick.

 

Actually this might be doable just using teamwork: "Forming a grenade and letting teh Brick deliver it, while remotely controlling when it goes off" is simply the Special Effect of Teamwork Blast + Smack to the Head. It's still handeledlike a Blast from your Position (Range penalties and visibility).

 

You do not need a varriable Trigger for different Times. The trigger is "after certain amount of time". I doubt you need varriable trigger to set a timebomb from 1 minute to 3 minutes.

As Markus points out "reforming the grenade" is what constitutes resetting the Trigger. Also consider "Trigger can expire" to account that you cannot enter combat with a ready-to-use grenade - you have to reset it, befire you can use it.

 

I actually had an Idea for a Eletricity User with a related Grenade trick. The "grenade" was a small power storage looking like a WW2 Model 24 Grenade. When charged it could be used to throw at the enemy (AoE), used as a Club (HTH-Attack + Electric HTH Attack; Maybe use "Additional Special Effect" from APG I). And finally he could use it to recover (heal) endurance by draining it into himself.

My first idea was Recoverable Charges (with Recovering being defined as getting the thing back and Spending the normal amount of END to use those powers). But Recoverable Charges is not suiteable for stuff recoverable more then once per Day (at least the rules say so. Some have used it for Superheroic throwing weapons none the less).

[Rapier]

I hadn't actually considered the sfx argument. Nicely done.

 

The thing with "Brick grenade Dilvery Service" is that this might go into UBO territory.

If you use this once or twice, not a problem. But if this is going to be a regular tactic, balance issues could arise. As you describe it you add Electricity Damage to the Main Attack of the Brick.

 

Actually this might be doable just using teamwork: "Forming a grenade and letting teh Brick deliver it, while remotely controlling when it goes off" is simply the Special Effect of Teamwork Blast + Smack to the Head. It's still handeledlike a Blast from your Position (Range penalties and visibility).

 

You do not need a varriable Trigger for different Times. The trigger is "after certain amount of time". I doubt you need varriable trigger to set a timebomb from 1 minute to 3 minutes.

As Markus points out "reforming the grenade" is what constitutes resetting the Trigger. Also consider "Trigger can expire" to account that you cannot enter combat with a ready-to-use grenade - you have to reset it, befire you can use it.

 

I actually had an Idea for a Eletricity User with a related Grenade trick. The "grenade" was a small power storage looking like a WW2 Model 24 Grenade. When charged it could be used to throw at the enemy (AoE), used as a Club (HTH-Attack + Electric HTH Attack; Maybe use "Additional Special Effect" from APG I). And finally he could use it to recover (heal) endurance by draining it into himself.

My first idea was Recoverable Charges (with Recovering being defined as getting the thing back and Spending the normal amount of END to use those powers). But Recoverable Charges is not suiteable for stuff recoverable more then once per Day (at least the rules say so. Some have used it for Superheroic throwing weapons none the less).

[phoenix240]

Background: I've got an electricity blaster. He's got a fairly normal build, as blasters go. All his attacks are dumped into a fairly large MP.

 

One of the things I've been considering is an electric grenade.  He loads up a blast of electricity into the grenade and wraps it in an electric field to keep it stable, but the field will degenerate over a couple of phases and then it will explode.  The plan is to form a grenade, hand it to the brick and let her get in close and deliver it along with a big smack to the head.  Or, of course, just use them as regular grenades or use them to mine a hallway or whatever.  Whether this ends up being a little globe of energy or more of a damage shield UOO, I haven't decided yet.  

 

I was thinking Trigger was the easiest way to go. I was considering a range of detonation times from 1 to 3 phases, which would be Variable Trigger (I think).  But the reset is kind of strange. There isn't, technically, a reset of the trigger.  It's one and done.  So maybe Trigger isn't the way to go.

 

Delayed Effect?  Delayed Effect seems to be more straight forward, but there is that whole deal about how the caster decides when to cast it.  Which might be ok, both thematically and operationally.  Instead of having a countdown he just decides when to let it blow.  Delayed Effect has that caveat about how it can only be used in campaigns where there is a limit to the number of active powers, but we can probably ignore that bit.

 

But I do already have a damage shield. Maybe just add UOO to it?  But then we are going down the Uncontrolled path and that is going to get pretty darned expensive real fast.

 

Any thoughts?  Oh, and obviously I'm talking about an xd6 Blast with Explosive AOE.

I like this idea. I started a thread on the Champions forum awhile back about "Team work" powers and this seems to fit under the heading. It might be possible for the brick's players to buy an Electrical attack or VSFX (to Energy damage) or something similar with Limitations that reflect she needs your character to set it up?

[bigbywolfe]

My first idea was Recoverable Charges (with Recovering being defined as getting the thing back and Spending the normal amount of END to use those powers). But Recoverable Charges is not suiteable for stuff recoverable more then once per Day (at least the rules say so. Some have used it for Superheroic throwing weapons none the less).

I think you need to re-read the Charges rules. You've said this before and been corrected. Regular Charges recover daily. Recoverable Charges can be RECOVERED and are not on a strict daily limit. The first two examples given in the book are a throwing knife and arrows.

[Christopher]

I think you need to re-read the Charges rules. You've said this before and been corrected. Regular Charges recover daily. Recoverable Charges can be RECOVERED and are not on a strict daily limit. The first two examples given in the book are a throwing knife and arrows.

1) Totally beside the point for this thread.

2) Not correct: "Generally a character shouldn’t be allowed to use Recoverable Charges to simulate Charges that return to him on a quicker than once-per-day basis, but the GM can allow this if he thinks it’s appropriate."

[phoenix240]

I think I see the difference. Recoverable Charges is more for Charges that a character has the possibility of recovering during combat or afterward (like throwing knives) but can stil be lost for the long term. It's not the spirit of the rules to use it for Charges that automatically recover more than once a day like a magical gun that's fully loaded before every battle but can run out of bullets during a fight but the GM can allow it if he feels its appropriate to the Power and SFX.

[L. Marcus]

2) Not correct: "Generally a character shouldn’t be allowed to use Recoverable Charges to simulate Charges that return to him on a quicker than once-per-day basis, but the GM can allow this if he thinks it’s appropriate."

The way I read that section, that sentence only applies to Charges that has been lost or broken and has to be recharged the normal way. The whole paragraph starts by saying that Recoverable Charges get recharged after combat, for crying out loud. Without it, RC has no place in the rules.

[Christopher]

Some more thinking about the OP:

Just Teamwork/Coordinated Atttack:

Havings this skill, having trained together and using it during Combat successfully brings: +3 OCV (Multiple Attacker Bonus), Stun past defenses is added for determining if the target is Stunned.

 

APG I 138 has "Multiple Special Effect"*, wich let's an attack have two special effects. The target takes damage based on wich Special effect is worst for it, after limited defenses and Complications have been taken into effect.

i.e. a Skelleton (Vulnerable to Blunt Damage, Extra Defense vs piercing) that his hit by a Mornign Stat (KA, Blunt, Multiple Special Effects (Piercing; +1/4) ) would take damage as from a Blunt weapon, not a Piercing one.

I consider a good approach for stuff like "D&D style Flaming Sword" (Sword SFX; additional SFX Fire). It can also be used to put a pricetag on stuff like "Uses Vulnerability, i.e. "Silver Sword" (Sword SFX; additional SFX Silver).

 

A Naked Multiple SFX (also coutns as Lightning/Electricty), UOO could do the trick. Of course this does affect DC calculation so and DC limits must be taken into account.

 

*Not to be mistake for the 6E1 Advantage of similar name wich requries you to choose the Special Effect. This one works autoamtically.

 

APG I 146 has the optional "Coordinated Attack: Enhancement" rule.

Instead of the normal Rules of Coordiante Attack (extra OCV and adding STUN past defenses), the stronger of the two attacks get's augmented with 50% of the AP of the weaker one.

It's primarily designed for Energy Special effects that are complimentary, but the GM can play it as fast and loose as he wants. Of coures it was not designed for mixing ED and PD attacks, so it might not work that well here.

i.e. Adding a 12d6 Blast to a 12d6 Punch (both 60 AP) would result in a 18d6 (90 AP) punch hitting and being compared to defenses all at once.

[phoenix240]

After thinking about this for awhile (I really like the idea. It's very "Comic book-y".) I think I might play this fast and loose using some sort of Naked Usable By Others advantage on the Blaster's EB with some Limitations on it that reflect how his "grenades" work.