It just so happens...

[Caveman]

I have an electrically based MA and I wanted to make sure this was a good way to go about the creation of his powers. The question I have concerns one of his sphere's of influence. I wanted to allow him to communicate with computers directly. Possibly manipulating actual info on said systems. This does not include AI's, at least not yet. How would you do it. This communication doesn't need a physical interface, he just has to be near by. This would also possibly include other mundane devices as well. Believe it or not, I thought of this before I saw Revolutions.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[JmOz]

Sounds Like TP only Usable vs Computers to me...

[Simon]

Telepathy would work, but I definitely wouldn't give it any limitation. All you're doing is redefining the "class of minds" that the ability acts against.

 

Redefining the class of minds from human to machine/computer doesn't cost you anything (it's part of the definition of the Power, not a Modifier or Adder). The only point at which you need to pay extra for it is if you want to affect more than one class of minds.

 

Look up my namesake on page 141 of CKC for an example.

[Farkling]

Telepathy handles communication.

Orders it must obey is Mind Control. Same for "inserted program alterations"

Tampering with sensory input is Mental Illusions (during or before the fact), or Mind Control (after the fact)

 

As a side note, I have allowed Telepathy to transmit/decode JPEG files for the wielder with a Computer Programming or Cryptography roll.

[Caveman]

Does all of this affect Inanimate objects ? Remember, this power would not affect AI's . If all of this is still germain... How would you scale it? (no ego to match against)

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Caveman

Does all of this affect Inanimate objects ? Remember, this power would not affect AI's . If all of this is still germain... How would you scale it? (no ego to match against)

 

Mental Powers with the Machine class of minds work off either Ego or Int (if the machine has no Ego).

 

You'd roll your Dice of Telepathy (or Mind Control or Mental Illusions or Mind Scan if you're looking for one particular subset of computer) and compare to the Int of the system you're messing with.

 

If you had 12d6 Telepathy (60 active points) and rolled average (42) you'd get +32 on an Int 10 computer.

 

Not having my Fred handy, I couldn't tell you for certain if that means you could plunder the whole system, but IIRC you can.

 

D

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Caveman

Does all of this affect Inanimate objects ? Remember, this power would not affect AI's . If all of this is still germain... How would you scale it? (no ego to match against)

 

This would definately have a Limitation (Not Vs AIs -1/2).

 

Mental Powers vs the Machine Class work against the machines INT or EGO, whichever is higher, if it has either. If not, it's a GM call as to what the value it. Defaults in my games is that electronics not sophisticated enough for an INT or EGO stat effectively have an INT/EGO of 0.

[BNakagawa]

Frankly, I've never been a big fan of this sort of power fx.

 

I mean, if your guy has the sophistication to manipulate electricity at range on the level that allows him to take command of a PC and manipulate data on it without frying it, then he ought to be able to do the same thing to a human being (whose nerves are triggered by minute amounts of electricity) or more importantly, trivially lobotomize anybody he stands near. Stop your heart? Sure, why not. it's only a muscle after all, and it's only contracting because of electricity. Make you blind? Your eyes are connected to your brain via the optic nerve, which without electricity is useless.

 

Granted, it's a genre convention, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by BNakagawa

Frankly, I've never been a big fan of this sort of power fx.

 

I mean, if your guy has the sophistication to manipulate electricity at range on the level that allows him to take command of a PC and manipulate data on it without frying it, then he ought to be able to do the same thing to a human being (whose nerves are triggered by minute amounts of electricity) or more importantly, trivially lobotomize anybody he stands near. Stop your heart? Sure, why not. it's only a muscle after all, and it's only contracting because of electricity. Make you blind? Your eyes are connected to your brain via the optic nerve, which without electricity is useless.

 

Granted, it's a genre convention, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

If it's any consolation, the electrical signals of the nervous system are only a part of what's going on in there, and are of a entirely different sort than those in electronics and computers.

[Caveman]

Originally posted by Kristopher

If it's any consolation, the electrical signals of the nervous system are only a part of what's going on in there, and are of a entirely different sort than those in electronics and computers.

 

 

Precisely, They are different. and I didn't want to have an arbitrary notion of non-AI Systems as having a 0 ego. Just doesn't seem right. There is an amount of complexity especially if you have good security or encryption. Instead of being arbitrary about thoses things also I thought of having a sense that can be descriminatory and transmit these impulses. Basically giving me the ability to have access to a computer(say through a network) to use my SKILLS on.(CP, Cryptography, SO and so on.) For game balance this would give the GM Fiat to affect what I get by skills and say what is beyond my reach. Plus, I don't affect AI's or Human Brains because they use "fuzzy logic" and hence are too complicated for me to affect at this time. When I get better at it(more xp) I could by Mental Powers to affect them.

[Farkling]

Bingo.

 

Humans and AI's are Trinary operating systems...

YES, NO, MAYBE

 

*puters use Binary logic

YES-NO

 

Easier to handle for ye average metahuman.

 

------------------

 

Telepathy let's you communicate. It is GM opinion on whether or not you can use your skills via Telepathy for anything other than access and search...technically (by the book) inserting commands into the data stream is illusions or mind control. Telepathy allows communication.

 

Technically, hacking and searching is communication...hmmm...I think skills could be used for slow access to systems, and to "virtually" dial up your ISP and log on. You need to have the protocols and passwords as knowledgbe skills IMHO.

 

Also, my universe does not grant this kind of sophisticated control over relatively unintelligent computer systems. The Terminator 3 effect of "locking the brakes" or "starting the engines" or "manipulating the brakes and power steering control" remotely on vehicles is NOT a Mind Control or Telepathy/Hacking effect. It is flat out Telekinetics usable on electronic systems and limited by system operation.

 

The conept of allowing machine communication via Telepathy to switch television channels or turn on the microwave is just wrong.

[Kristopher]

On cars, a lot of the control is mechanical, or largely so. The electronics of the car control ignition, mainly, on most models. Those with traction control or adaptive steering will tend to have more of their controls vulnerable to interference with the computers. For the most part, though, this still doesn't allow a "mechempathic" character to control the device, just interfere with its proper opperation.

 

TVs, VCRs, etc, on the other hand, are now almost entirely computerized, and there's nothing "out-of-concept" about a character that can mentally communicate with computers using that power to control the television.

[Farkling]

All in fun

 

placing tongue in cheek

Look here killjoy... I cut my teeth on science fiction. I read comic books. I know theoretical machine evolution trees pretty thoroughly. The Turing Effect covers the premise of AI very thoroughly from a unique standpoint. Adam Link, Cyborg, Neuromancer, Realtime Interrupt, and Chalker's Wonderland gambit give a beautiful perspective on computers, communications, and simulations. Oh, and the Borg are a bunch of pikers, Fred Saberhagan should've sued the Star Trek consortium. Blah!

removing tongue from cheek

 

I'm more inclinde to let radio or IR transmit manipulate them than Telepathy versus machines. Theres no MIND in there. A desktop computer is probably equivalent to a 3-10 year old, and does EXACTLY what I tell it to at light speed.

 

Communicating with the baby computers in the electronics doesn't work for me, so I prefer a TK model. Personal preference as a GM. I'd probably build a universal remote control using TK also, it's quick, easy, and communicates to newbies well.

 

Seeing the electronics - Seeing a baby

Talking to electronics - Talking to the baby

Issuing orders to electronics - Issuing orders to the baby.

 

 

Though come to think of it, I have a stupid VCR that cannot be programmed without a remote. I guess I'll havde to reconsider this.

[misterdeath]

Hmmm, to get around the objections "mind/no mind/electronics stuff"

 

Buy yourself Computer Programming skill, then buy it Ranged, and buy up the range (since the active points of a skill are pretty low).

 

You can only do what the character could accomplish normally with the Computer Programming skill, which might reduce some objections to this type of power.

 

Computer Control Computer Programming +2 skill, Ranged (+1/2), Increased Maximum Range 2 (+1/2). 14 points.

 

You can use your computer programming skill at (7x125)=875".

 

D

[Farkling]

Computer Programming, Cryptography, and/or Internet Protocol should allow the use of Telepathy as a hacking tool. After all, Telepathy is supposed to transcend language, so with programming rolls you would look like "an authorized user" and couldn't be tracked. Mental Illusions would add "from port so n so" whether you were there or not. Mind Control is for "stop asking these stupid questions, and tell me what I want to know. I am authorized." - No Programming necessary.

 

Hacking the electronics of a television or VCR typically involves cracking open the case and rewiring the board UNLESS you have the correct transmission wave. As a power stunt to one of the above powers, I'd allow it. To expand it to cars and microwaves and appliances and farm/lawn/construction equipment I would request a power with TK or Summon base.

 

Why Summon? The T3 effects did not require concentration...they were "fire and forget" effects. Only Summon really does fire and forget.

 

Personal Preference. YMMV.

[BNakagawa]

In addition to anything else you use, you'll need a whole bunch of levels of rapid sense to keep up with modern processors.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Simon

Telepathy would work, but I definitely wouldn't give it any limitation. All you're doing is redefining the "class of minds" that the ability acts against.

 

Redefining the class of minds from human to machine/computer doesn't cost you anything (it's part of the definition of the Power, not a Modifier or Adder). The only point at which you need to pay extra for it is if you want to affect more than one class of minds.

 

Look up my namesake on page 141 of CKC for an example.

 

He deserves a limitation do to the fact that he has defined it as computers instead of machines, I would say about a -1/4, on a generous day a -1/2

[Caveman]

Originally posted by BNakagawa

In addition to anything else you use, you'll need a whole bunch of levels of rapid sense to keep up with modern processors.

 

Yep, I purchased a detect electrical signals, sense, transmit, rapid(x10000) @ 19 or less. this should work with systems that are CAPABLE of sending and receiving transmissions(networked machines, etc.) I know there is another thing I need to add. Just have to come up with it.