The Character Balancing Act

[Deadman]

You have briefly discussed recuperative abilities, but you might consider adding a BP factor involving STUN/END and REC. A character could buy a high REC and STUN, but what do you deem to be too high for each archetype? Without it being shown as having a BP effect, it's entirely subjective.

 

Do you allow abilities from the Advanced Players Guides?

 

Since your BP on attacks is driven by Active Points, does that mean that Personal Immunity or Reduced END is treated the same as Armor Piercing? Some Advantages don't affect damage done to a target, so maybe they could be ignored in the BP calculation?

 

I agree that the STUN/REC situation may need some looking into to make this system a more objective option.  However, I never intended this to be the only way to judge a character's power.  As I use it more this may change and I could look at other categories.  If any of you decide to use this system or something like it by all means post it so that the rest of us may benefit from your work.

 

I do allow some.  For example I did let one of the characters take Defensive Attack.  On the other hand I don't like some of them and wouldn't allow them in a game (I'm looking at you Possession).  I also incorporate some of the new Combat Maneuvers such as Disarm By and Options for Grab (with the exception of Grab and Block which I feel allows a character to perform a defensive action after attacking which shouldn't be allowed).  All in all I use what feels right for my game and use subjective analysis to get to that conclusion.

 

I think I answered that a few posts back.  Only Advantages that impact damage or hitting are considered.

 

Thanks again for your input,

[Deadman]

 

1. 67 Active point power (not sure where you came up with 82).
2. Yes, it's STUN only because it's a NND -- intentionally so since it fits the special effects.
3. Not sure why you called it unsound, as a character going last can pop solid, take the shot, then abort back to desolid on the next segment, if needed.  Tactically, it's very sound, as the period of 3 DCV while solid ... is minimal.

 

I understand your commentary about desolidification being visible -- but in combat, with range penalties to PER rolls as well as penelaties due to various combat conditions (smoke, debris, effects of characters using change envifonment, partial cover, etc.) ... I don't think desolidification would be as immediately apparent (at least for the first shot) for all opponents as you seem to indicate.  Then again, perhaps you and/or your players don't model your combats to account for and/or take/make full advantage of environmental conditions...

 

If you want to handwave desolidification being the same as Martial Dodge, that's your call.  However, since performing one of these (activating Desolidification) is a Zero phase non-attack action and performing the other (Martial Dodge) is a half-phase action that counts as an attack action ... I don't agree with that handwave -- specifically because you can use Desolidification as a defense in your own phase ... and still attack in the same phase -- and I just showed you an example of how.  (Aborting is a different matter, entirely; they're actually comparable, but so is any defense when aborting to use/raise it.)

 

Frankly, I see it as a hole in which Desolidification is ripe for abuse -- since your weighting system doesn't properly account for it (IMHO).

 

 

1.  I added the Does Body advantage per your description that it did little body damage.
2.  So you purposely exploited the Stun Multiplier advantage?
3.  See #2 above.  I would let a character build something like this but would insist they do so using Blast.  That is a tactic and while it is certainly usable as you outline, it is not without pitfalls.  As I said, all it takes is one person not effected by it with a held action to derail his plans.

My campaign, my rules.  Now you are adding in your subjective opinion.

 

What you are missing is the fact that, while you are right, Desolid is a zero-phase activation, any attack you launch when under its power is also Desolid and therefore won't effect others.  So since you can't both activate and deactivate the power in the same phase it has much the same effect as the dodge.

 

You seem to want to argue every point and I go back to my first statement; My campaign, My rules .  If you like the system, fine use it.  If you don't like it, don't use it.  I just wanted to share a system that my players have found very useful and has worked out very well for us.  If they wanted to argue every point or specifically create characters to abuse it I suppose it wouldn't work so well.

 

Regards,

 

Ah, you're correct. I missed that part.

 

Going on to other powers: Darkness and Invisibility affect an opponent's ability to see and their CV. Could that have a BP effect?

 

How about Drains on OCV or DCV?

 

Absolutely, as could Flash or any other number of powers.  Such is the way of the Hero.  They have the same effect as any other power with regard to setting the DAM level.

 

I haven't run across drains of this nature but that is very nasty.  I like it.  I would surmise that you could only drain them to 0 and could not effect Combat Skill Levels but they may be very overpowered for the points (especially OCV which isn't a Defensive power and is therefore not halved).  Once again I would leave this to my discretion when the issue arises.

 

 

 

Thank you for your comments,

[Ninja-Bear]

Deadman is correct as far as fifth rev. Even though turning on a power is 0 phase, you can only do it once per phase.

[Christougher]

While I haven't been following the entire thread, I would question why you assign point values to various scores for OCV, et al.  

 

Because I've posted a similar formula I developed, and to keep it as simple as possible, used actual values rather than assigned points.

 

My formula is (2*SPD)+OCV+DCs + DCV+((PD+ED)/2)+(STN/10).  Damage Reduction is a Stun multiplier.  I'm tinkering with the idea of adding in Movement/6" as a factor, and powers like Desolid or Invisibility at AP/5 or DC level.

[Deadman]

While I haven't been following the entire thread, I would question why you assign point values to various scores for OCV, et al.  

 

Because I've posted a similar formula I developed, and to keep it as simple as possible, used actual values rather than assigned points.

 

My formula is (2*SPD)+OCV+DCs + DCV+((PD+ED)/2)+(STN/10).  Damage Reduction is a Stun multiplier.  I'm tinkering with the idea of adding in Movement/6" as a factor, and powers like Desolid or Invisibility at AP/5 or DC level.

 

My system was designed with the idea that all of the components that make it up essentially have the same worth when above or below the established campaign average.  While I like your formula it doesn't seem to take into account the campaign average for each category, which in my opinion is very important.  I assume that you tell players that they can have a specific total point value (such as 75 which would essentially be the average for my campaign).  You do seem to put a premium on Defenses (shouldn't they be divided by 5?).  Other than Defenses, it seems that yours works out the same as mine when broken down.

 

I guess what it boils down to is what fits your campaign best.  I know I could add a lot more factors into my system but I have held back on doing so to keep it as simple as possible.  At this point it seems to work out pretty well.

 

Thanks for your feedback,

[Steve]

One thing I found interesting in how the Gestalt campaign setting established its maximums was that while defenses were a little lower than what other settings used, maximum DCV was two points higher than OCV could go.

 

While this would have no effect on AoE-type attacks, more straightforward shooting and punching attacks would hit less often and thus do a lower amount of damage per Turn.

 

I thought it was a clever approach.

[Deadman]

One thing I found interesting in how the Gestalt campaign setting established its maximums was that while defenses were a little lower than what other settings used, maximum DCV was two points higher than OCV could go.

 

While this would have no effect on AoE-type attacks, more straightforward shooting and punching attacks would hit less often and thus do a lower amount of damage per Turn.

 

I thought it was a clever approach.

 

I did take a look at the Gestalt breakdown and I find it very interesting.  Now I see what you mean by them using SPD as the measuring stick for all other things.  I really find it interesting that it incorporates the same groups that I do (with the exception of Skills and Dex).  I see what you mean about DCV being higher than OCV which I guess makes sense if you limit DEF.  I personally set the average at 30/30 in my campaign (a little on the high side) which means that the characters take about 12 STUN per attack on average.  This can make for some long combats but I think it gives the PCs a little leeway to actually get something done.  They don't generally have to worry about being one shotted (well unless there is a World Beater to deal with).

 

If I break it out along my averages for Experienced Heroes the campaign max in Gestalt is 14DCs, 11 OCV, 13 DCV and 25 DEF.  Assuming Max level this would mean a character takes  24 Stun on an average hit...Ouch!  But they would hit only 37.5% of the time.  Seems to again somewhat work out since my averages hit +25% more but take half the damage.

 

All said and done what I do like about the system I am using is that it forces the PCs to make some decisions as to their capabilities.  They can't just max out at my campaign limits.  If they want a status quo hero they take all 3s but if they want to be better in one category they need to compensate by lowering another.

 

Thank you for your comments,

 

Deadman