Deadman

After doing some digging into the books, Flying Dodge goes against the rules for Aborting an Action. In 6eV2, 21 it says... "A character cannot normally Abort to a movement Action, such as to run, fly, or Teleport out of danger’s way. Dive For Cover and decelerating or turning are exceptions to this — although they do involve some movement, characters can Abort to them. At the GM’s option, characters may be allowed to Abort to other forms of movement in appropriate circumstances." With that said, I feel that allowing the maneuver itself would require the GM to allow others to Abort to movement as well. They wouldn't get the DCV bonus that Flying Dodge confers but would be able to move as a defensive abort action. Of course if the GM allows this then it renders the Dive For Cover maneuver obsolete since no one would want to end up prone if they don't have to. Right? Therefore if you require a DEX roll for someone to Abort to movement I feel it is justified to require it for those trying a Flying Dodge. If they miss the roll they still have the +4 DCV but they are in the Hex when the AoE goes off. Just my $.02, T

Sure it does. It may not fit your concept but it is available to you. If you want to gimp your character by not taking it that is your problem, right? Now I do get where you are coming from. In a perfect system every character created with a set number of points should be every bit as capable as another character with the same number of points, right? I can't tell you how many characters I have rejected that have all had a combination of Desolidification and Invisibility. At one point it seemed like a standard for characters that were being submitted for my games. But ultimately I don't see every character coming in with Martial Arts and that leads me to believe that it isn't that unbalancing. Can it be powerful? Sure, but the more flexibility you buy with it (meaning more maneuvers) the more you pay for it and the more balanced it becomes. "Gun Fu" is certainly available as presented in Hero System Martial Arts, which is considered a Core book. Strength also requires your character be a hand to hand combatant, it just costs points to increase just as Martial Arts does. Well OCV can be used for ranged attacks right? The limitation ensures that it can't. Some people may see a Hand Attack like a touch taser which may not require a Strike, in this case you would have to use a Strike to do damage. It represents that it adds only to other damage dealt and cannot do damage by itself. I think the -1/4 is a pretty good representation overall. If you don't that is your prerogative. The HKA itself makes the Strike maneuver do Killing. Yes, it is more expensive but not dramatically so. The rules state that you must take at least 10 points of maneuvers to take any Martial Arts so that helps reign in many of the abuses of characters. So just taking Flying Dodge and Fast Strike (since the Weapon Element is not included per the rules) (6Ev1 pg. 82). I also find it ironic that you say that Ranged Martial Arts isn't allowed but you include two Maneuvers that are only available through HSMA. As for how I would construct that set without using Martial Arts. A 2 slot Multipower with one +4 DCV slot and another slot with +2 OCV and 2DC of Hand Attack. Probably 15 points or so.

I don't think that Martial Arts is really unbalancing at all. It is available to everyone so that right there means it is pretty balanced. Consider the Multipower below which could be used instead of Martial Arts to pretty awesome effect. 16 Martial Arts: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots Only To Augment HTH Standard Maneuvers (-1/4) 3V Accurate: +4 OCV (20 Active Points); Only To Augment HTH Standard Maneuvers (-1/4) 3V Evasive: +4 DCV (20 Active Points); Only To Augment HTH Standard Maneuvers (-1/4) 3V Strong: +20 STR (20 Active Points); Only To Augment HTH Standard Maneuvers (-1/4) 3V Powerful: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6 (20 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4), Only To Augment HTH Standard Maneuvers (-1/4) 3V Lethal: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6+1 (2d6 w/STR) (20 Active Points); Only To Augment HTH Standard Maneuvers (-1/4) In this example the character could use any one of the slots to bolster his HTH prowess or mix and match them (because they are Variable slots) to great effect. Martial Strike - +2d6, +2 DCV when performing Strike Fast Strike - +2 OCV, +2d6 when performing Strike Martial Block - +2 OCV, +2 DCV when performing Block Martial Dodge - +4 DCV (Total of +7!) when performing Dodge Martial Grab - +1 OCV, +1 DCV, +10 STR when performing Grab Offensive Strike - +4d6 when performing Strike Killing Strike - 2d6KA when performing Strike If you want to make it even more powerful you could drop the limitation and voila! You have the ability to do a Flying Dodge. Sure, it costs more than your average Martial Arts package but it doesn't have the Negatives on any of the maneuvers either. Just my $.02, Deadman

Thanks Jagged. I appreciate the work and fully understand the demands (well if your Misses is anything like mine ) of real life. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

Any traction on this project Jagged? I am still using 1.4.0.5 but if any of the new builds have the functionality I would consider moving over just for that. Thanks, Deadman

Why buy a blast when you could just miss half the time? The point wasn't trying to be a rules monger and make it insanely cheap. It was to reason from effect and create a power that would do what the OP was looking for. If it were my game I don't think I would want someone to routinely disarm everything from a target for 20 points. Using CE works per the RAW but in my experience it isn't very well cost balanced. I also don't see how CE would affect things that are stowed regardless of their OAF status. The CE version you cite would look like this. Butterfingers: Change Environment (-3 to DEX Roll), Characters that Miss DEX Roll Drop Handheld OAFs (+0), Area Of Effect Accurate (1m Radius; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (18 Active Points) To me that is too inexpensive for a nearly guaranteed effect.

Wow, this is a great topic and has so many uses beyond just what the OP was presenting. I will break my thoughts down in sections. In response to the OP. I am not a fan of CE since it seems too inexpensive for what it does. (i.e. An Ice Slick causes everyone to fall in an area if they fail a Dex roll -3). Therefore I would say that TK would be better suited for this. Now if you're against STR defending against it you could use AVAD to make DEX defend against it instead. I think that you would need the Fine Manipulation Adder to do the Disarm maneuver so that is added in. The power would then look like this. Butterfingers: Telekinesis (20 STR), Fine Manipulation, Area Of Effect Accurate (2m Radius; +1/2), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (DEX; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (100 Active Points); Only Works On Very Limited Types Of Objects Handheld OAFs (-1), Only To Disarm Handheld Objects (-1) AP:100, Real Cost: 33 I Guess You Should Have Secured Those Better: Telekinesis (20 STR), Fine Manipulation, Area Of Effect Accurate (2m Radius; +1/2), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (DEX; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (180 Active Points); Only To Disarm OAFs On Character (-1), Only Works On Limited Types Of Objects OAFs On Target (-1/2) AP: 180, Real Cost: 72 The first one would only work on a handheld OAF, while the second would work on any OAFs the Character had on his person. The attacker would make a STR based roll of 4d6 and the Target would roll 1d6 per 5 points of DEX they had to determine if they retained the objects. Now on to the bigger question of disarming holstered or stowed OAFs. The RAW don't make a distinction between an OAF in use and one that is stowed. I would say that logic must help us dictate this. Let's take a holstered handgun for example. I would assume that a handgun in a standard holster would in fact still be OAF (even if there was a velcro/snap strap on it). For a retention holster I would agree that this would be bought to resist disarm with extra STR (or alternatively extra DCV to resist disarm). This doesn't necessarily need to be written up. It could just be an additional negative applied to the -2 OCV penalty imposed by Disarm based on how it is stowed. Surrealone brought up the idea of items being stored in bags and such. In my opinion this is as much a detriment to the character as someone trying to disarm it (have you ever tried to find something in a woman's purse?). Therefore it would be handled differently (but again logically). If stowed completely in a purse, backpack, etc. the OAF in question becomes essentially an IIF for all intents and purposes. If the character wanted to use it they must retrieve it which could take anywhere from a full phase to a minute or more (you should see my wife's purse). Then you are dealing with just the container with regard to disarm. Is it an OAF itself or perhaps an OIF. This would depend on how it is worn/carried IMHO. A woman's purse carried on one shoulder is OAF, while one carried in a cross body fashion would be OIF. So if someone wanted to take the OIF they would have to break the strap. Of course there is also the case where a weapon or other OAF is concealed. The GM must decide what negatives are applied for someone to notice the device (there are actual rules for this but I don't know where they are off the top of my head). If they succeed with a PER roll then apply the decision for whatever they are contained in. Not all of this needs to be written up, it should be handled on a case by case basis by the GM. For example: Hair Trigger carries four pistols, two in Fast Draw holsters on her hips, two in cross draw shoulder holsters beneath her jacket. The GM decides that the pistols on her hips are still OAFs, the ones below her jacket are concealed (somewhat IAF) with a -2 to PER rolls. In addition she has a can of pepper spray in a belt case. The pepper spray is also OAF but it is not immediately apparent that it is pepper spray. She gets into a close quarters mix-up with Edge and knowing of her prowess with handguns decides to disarm her. He wants to Multi-Attack a disarm to remove her weapons. The GM has Edge's player roll a PER roll which he makes exactly. Now he rolls to disarm the two pistols that he can see. The GM decides that because they are fast draw holsters the standard -2 OCV for Disarm will apply. Edge takes a total of a -4 OCV to his rolls due to the multi-attack and hits both times. The GM adjudicates that the holsters will be STR 10 for purposes of disarm. They both roll and Edge succeeds in liberating the pistols from their holsters....HA! Hair Trigger takes a step back and pulls the pistols from her shoulder holsters with Fast Draw and opens up on Edge....HA BACK! Just my $.02, Deadman

Just to be thorough here are the last two members of the Coalition from Dystopia. Dart and Hammerhand

While I am at it here are a couple more. Dark Angel and Red Rapier from Enemies III.

Here you go. There are several versions. The one I use is HeroMachine 3. http://www.heromachine.com

Here are my latest designs. From Mutant Files, Ghoul From Enemies III, Demonfire From Dystopia, Piledriver, Fire & Ice, Ultraviolet and Diamond From Champions 3E Rulebook, Brick

That is a pretty cool system Neil. It must make for some pretty cool storylines. Do all of the players draw from the bag so that only one can get the Gold/Red Chit or is the bag made whole for each player/NPC? I would consider doing something similar with luck. I have been toying with the idea of a "Lucky Break". This would be an expenditure of many luck points depending on what the Player wanted to do. For example if we use the chart in 6Ev1 pg. 246 each level of Luck would cost 5 luck points so a "miracle" would cost 15 Luck points. The HAP system is outlined in 6eV2 pg. 287. I find it an interesting idea but as Surrealone mentioned I have never used it. I will probably give it a shot the next time I run a game. The more I think about it the more I would lean toward making HAP known to the player. I am also toying with a different roll. I don't like the characters having the chance of getting only a single HAP. Perhaps 2d3 or even 3d2 would be better. This would give them a smaller range (2-6 or 3-6 respectively) but at least the minimum they could get would be higher. I may handicap the NPCs somewhat by sticking them to a strict 1d6 roll. Okay, I have so many ideas that I have to put a game together, recruit some players and playtest all of this. T

So how do your Luck "Chits" work? You mention an extra Block, Dodge, Recovery. How many do the PCs get? Sounds interesting, T

I don't know, I am kind of on the fence. I kind of like the idea of PCs not knowing as it would ensure they use them discriminately. On the other hand if they knew their total it keeps them from whining if they don't have enough to perform a specific act. I was playing with Luck and set it up very similar to how I have presented HAP. In the case of Luck I really like the unknown factor. I have seen what Luck used in this manner can do and how powerful it could potentially be (especially if a character decides to buy like 6d6 of it). In this gritty, heroic game I would say that it should be treated much like characteristics (meaning the Normal Max would be 3d6 and the cost would be doubled up to the cap of 5d6. Not sure if even 3d6 is too much. T

Jagged, I think you hit the nail on the head. It would be great if the drawing and AoE Templates could be set to Hexes instead of the default Squares. Other than that I love MapTool and have been using it to run Hero for years. One other thing that would really help is an updated and accurate Hero System Framework. Nolgroth posted one way back and had been updating it but it looks like he's given up maintaining it now. I personally use a mix of an earlier framework with some custom macros of my own design. Nothing too fancy. I personally don't try to do everything for the players. Just enough to help the game along. I will think about it some more and post again if I come up with anything else. Deadman