Cumulative Mind Control and Duplication

[Fedifensor]

So, I'm working on a villain idea.  The character is a mentalist who creates psionic duplicates (literal faceless minions) who can each telepathically "whisper" suggestions at a target.  With multiple duplicates targeting a single foe, weaker minds can be swayed into complying.  A hero with even a small amount of mental defense would be basically immune to this.

 

I was thinking the base power would be a 2d6 Mind Control, Telepathic, Cumulative, with increased maximum effect.  However, I don't think different characters can contribute to the same cumulative effect, unless there is something I am missing.  Is it legal for foes that have the same Cumulative power to combine their efforts?

[DasBroot]

It's a really neat idea but there's definitely no written way to stack cumulative.

 

Mentalists can aid each other, which is normally how I'd play this situation, but you specifically don't want to overpower a strong willed hero - though you could always throw a maximum effect cap on the power (ie it doesn't matter if a hundred of these things throw dice at a 'leader' duplicates mind control - it will always cap out at 20).

 

How about Draining Ego and Presence instead? That's another way to increase susceptibility to an otherwise weak mental attack (and you barely need a mental attack when they're at EGO/PRE 0).  If you use attack vs alternate defence to change the resistance to the drain from Power Defence to Mental Defence then your hero 'with even a small amount of mental defence would be basically immune'. 

 

In play a few of these these things using a 1d6 ego/presence drain would set a normal human up for domination in short order (maybe too short - maybe a limited effect of 1 on that 1d6, depending on how long you want these things to have to 'whisper' or how many you want to need) - but the psychic hero with 5 or more MD shrugs it off.

[BoloOfEarth]

If all the "psionic duplicates" are doing in effectively boosting the main villain's Mind Control, then you don't really need Duplication.  You could increase the maximum Cumulative value, and add Autofire (and Reduced END) to represent the "psionic duplicates", and it's all just SFX.

 

For example:

 

Mind Control 2d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), Cumulative (96 points maximum; +1 1/4), 0 END (+1); Perceivable (Invisible becomes Obvious; - 1/2), Reduced Penetration (-1/4).  47 Active Points, 27 Real Points

 

If you want to also affect multiple people, put it in a Multipower with another slot doing AoE instead of Autofire:

 

Mind Control 2d6, AoE (128m radius Selective; +1 3/4), Cumulative (96 points maximum; +1 1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2); Perceivable (Invisible becomes Obvious; - 1/2), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), No Range (-1/2).  47 Active Points, 21Real Points

[bigdamnhero]

I was looking at something kinda similar awhile back, and asked Steve about using Complimentary Mental Powers to increase Cumulative Mental Powers. Tldr: the additional mentalists can add to the effect roll, but cannot increase the max under RAW.

 

I'd could give the Duplicates some sort of Aid that only affects the Cumulative point max. I'm not sure that's totally book-legal, but with a little handwaving you should be able to make it work. I'm not sure if the benefit of Affects Cumulative Effect Total is more or less than the restriction of Only Affects Cumulative Effect Total, so I'm not sure if it's an Advantage or Limitation. If you use Standard Effect, you can save yourself some work by just charting out X duplicates = Y max points.

 

If all the "psionic duplicates" are doing in effectively boosting the main villain's Mind Control, then you don't really need Duplication.  You could increase the maximum Cumulative value, and add Autofire (and Reduced END) to represent the "psionic duplicates", and it's all just SFX.

Agreed, if that's the only thing they're doing, the duplicates are just an sfx. Unless maybe you want people to be able to target the individual duplicates?

[Fedifensor]

I was looking at something kinda similar awhile back, and asked Steve about using Complimentary Mental Powers to increase Cumulative Mental Powers. Tldr: the additional mentalists can add to the effect roll, but cannot increase the max under RAW.

Well, I can always buy a higher maximum.  The power may get more expensive that way than just buying more dice, though.

 

I'll take a closer look at the Complementary Mental Powers rules.

 

The duplicates are supposed to be individually targetable, so the villain gets weaker as his minions drop.

[DasBroot]

Well, I can always buy a higher maximum.  The power may get more expensive that way than just buying more dice, though.

 

I'll take a closer look at the Complementary Mental Powers rules.

 

The duplicates are supposed to be individually targetable, so the villain gets weaker as his minions drop.

 

It's a villain which (presumably) means you're the GM. Villains are built on plot dependant points - if this weak little power ends up costing 500 AP who's to know (or care)? I've got 'mook' class opponents with 120 AP or higher attack powers running around (rocket launchers are expensive AP wise but they're the signature weapon of one of my villain groups) .  

 

As long as the heroes can affect villains with their powers (and the villains are fun to fight - ie no "Drain Speed"), I've found, my players don't really care if a GM follows any kind of point value rules when building them. Your mileage may vary.

[bigdamnhero]

Well, I can always buy a higher maximum.  The power may get more expensive that way than just buying more dice, though.

True, You could even add a Limitation tying the higher max to the number of duplicates. Otherwise there's nothing to stop a single duplicate from "running up the score" so to speak. Well, aside from getting pounded on by superheroes.

[Fedifensor]

True, You could even add a Limitation tying the higher max to the number of duplicates. Otherwise there's nothing to stop a single duplicate from "running up the score" so to speak. Well, aside from getting pounded on by superheroes.

Is there an example of how to write up a Limitation for a proportional increase based on number of duplicates?  That would help both with this villain and another one I'm working on...

[Grailknight]

There is an optional rule in APG1 or 2 that allows mentalists to stack powers. The primary is at full strength and the others contribute 1/4 of their power.