Magic System - comments welcome

[eepjr24]

If all magical effects cost Endurance, a minimum of one point, even things like armor, does that then mean that magical armor worn by a fighter could be even more tiring than regular armor? 

Generally armor that is built as real armor but only has things like Real Armor bought off will not cost endurance. If the "armor" is more of the "Bracers of Defense" bought as a force field that applies PD/ED/other, those will cost endurance only when the power is used. See Rules forums for my questions to Steve on that.

 

 

Does that mean that drinking a potion or using a magic ring causes Endurance loss to the user?

Yes. At least to activate it. It may only be 1 END, but it is required to channel the energy for the effect. Different things will require END only to activate, only when used (if you are not flying, the ring of flight costs no end) or every phase (many things by default, though well constructed foci can possibly move it to one of the other two categories).

 

 

Is there any sort of channeled divine magic that works differently? If a wizard risks self-immolation, does a cleric have the same issues? If "clerical" magic is made up of spells that only the faithful are taught instead of channeled from a divinity, then clerics would also likely be unarmored types.

Undecided as yet. I will get back to you when I know more. It is quite possible there will be divine magic that is different, but if so it will probably be very focused on either a fixed spell list available for the pantheon or more of a patron system with granted abilities (ala Paladin or other holy warrior). They may be free from the heat effects but have restrictions based on staying true to their faith.

 

 

Do Active Points determine the heating level? How does it work? It might be that some spells are more efficient in terms of heating, so perhaps variants of "Increased END Cost" and "Reduced END Cost" could be used in spells, like "Increased Heat Effect" and "Reduced Heat Effect" in addition to END cost advantages and limitations.

The heat is modeled as END expenditure to keep things manageable for me (or anyone else who wants to use the system). So yes, it is loosely tied to AP, through the link to END. To make this somewhat less costly and make a bit more sense I will probably allow casters to buy END and REC (up to maxima) with a -1 Limitation "Only for magical use". If I do that, the math may get a bit more hairy for LTE, so I need to noodle that a bit. 

 

- E

[eepjr24]

Who has to be skilled to reduce the impact when used, the caster of the spell or the user of the item? If I can avoid the negative effects at usage, why would I not spend my energy creating magic items (eg. potions) that I can use later, rather than casting the spells when I can't easily mitigate the byproduct of the casting? That is, I won't cast "Flaming Breath" in combat (and overheat myself), I'll make and carry several potions that each allow me to use Flaming Breath for a minute or so when I consume them, and avoid the heat issue in combat.

 The creator of the item. And you are certainly welcome to become an alchemist type and be a fighter as well. Again, it's all about point trade offs. You will need to buy an Alchemist Package and then develop your skills enough to reduce the heat (END) at usage time. The default for potions is that they will cost the same END as casting the spell yourself, they simply allow people who do not have knowledge of that effect to use it like someone who does on a one off basis. I have not yet decided on whether Alchemists actually need to be able to cast the spell to create an item with it or not. 

 

I don't want the magic to dissipate the heat. I want it to make the armor less encumbering, more sturdy, etc. so its non-magical heat dissipation attachments can be practical to wear and haul around. Similarly, if I can't dispel heat directly, maybe I can build conduits into my armor and Create Water to flow through them and more rapidly cool both me and my armor.

If you don't like explaining physics with magic, don't try to use physics to augment magic. =P

 

More seriously, though, heat exchangers are only an efficient method if you have some way to cool the water. I have worked on cooling systems for mainframes and their peripherals, that water is HOT. If you are looking for air cooling, you need more than a few fins to manage it for very much heat at all, which is why CPU's have cooling fans. You could certainly design something given enough time and research, probably that would use a system of containers to hold water and then dump it once it is heated. If you want to go for that kind of Ars Mechanica, it might even spawn followers and become a profession eventually. I don't know that it would be more efficient than just becoming a master alchemist, but it certainly has interesting possibilities. Possibly an Artificer profession package?

 

 

If I have the choice between using my magical "horsepower" on long-lasting buffs, then wearing heavy armor, or wearing no armor and using my horsepower up on spells in combat, I'm thinking those buffs are starting to look pretty good. But I also like those potions!

 

Another great reason to buff the skilled fighter, rather than use magic on myself, isn't it?

Sure. You can go that route, it is a valid choice. Better figure something out to protect yourself, though. Your enemies will have mages as well and archers like targets with no armor and no spells to protect themselves. Not to say it could not work, just has trade offs, just like everything else.

 

 

What about a spell than enchants an item he is carrying? You said above that an enchanted object will generate heat when used. A skilled user can mitigate that heat to some extent, you indicate, but presumably a skilled user can choose to NOT mitigate that heat as well.

As long as you pay the points for the effect you are trying to achieve, sure. If you are just looking to make a buff into an attack spell you will need to pay for the desired effect. And as a GM, I will not feel the need to explain why it does not work if you don't. "Sorry, it just didn't do what you expected". Also, enchanting items is more of a ritual, not something you cast on the fly.

 

 

Presumably, whatever aspect of magic causes it to generate that heat which makes armor impractical is built in as a limitation on magical abilities. "Paying the points" is then no different from "not taking the limitation", so all I need is a background that justifies not taking the limitation, at least as I read it.

It is not built as a "limitation" in the Hero sense. It is an intrinsic part of the system. You can come up with a background that will help you deal with the effect, but you cannot simply pay points to "not take" the "limitation". I would probably suggest you buy REC with a limitation or use it as a justification to exceed characteristic maxima for END or REC. But I'd listen to other ideas if you had them.

 

- E

[Hugh Neilson]

More seriously, though, heat exchangers are only an efficient method if you have some way to cool the water.

"It's magic" - because it's not the same water. I create water from thin air which pours through the conduits in the armor, collecting heat as it goes and draining out of the conduits. Then I create more water.

 

I have worked on cooling systems for mainframes and their peripherals, that water is HOT. If you are looking for air cooling, you need more than a few fins to manage it for very much heat at all, which is why CPU's have cooling fans.

And wizards have Control Wind spells In addition to the heat dissipation, my Wizard will look much cooler with his long hair, beard, wizardly robe and cloak, etc. whipping around from the winds that surround him (and only him ) while he casts his other spells.

 

Sure. You can go that route, it is a valid choice. Better figure something out to protect yourself, though. Your enemies will have mages as well and archers like targets with no armor and no spells to protect themselves. Not to say it could not work, just has trade offs, just like everything else.

Lots of options there. I've already used my "spell points" (LTE) up on all those long term buffs, so I don't really need to forego the armor after my morning Casting Frenzy. I'll either be using my self-buffs to be an effective warrior with no other combat spells, or I can simply have a spell of Invisibility, or Misty Form (desolidification), or Images (which of the twelve of me is the archer targeting?) or just a long-term Damage Reduction and Regeneration spell. Go ahead and target me (while I just stand around, since I'm not really a combatant, but the guy who made everyone else more effective in combat) instead of targeting the guys who are doing damage in combat. 

 

As long as you pay the points for the effect you are trying to achieve, sure. If you are just looking to make a buff into an attack spell you will need to pay for the desired effect. And as a GM, I will not feel the need to explain why it does not work if you don't. "Sorry, it just didn't do what you expected". Also, enchanting items is more of a ritual, not something you cast on the fly.

So if I cast a spell on my teammate, it has a negative side effect, but if I cast it on an opponent, the side effect mysteriously vanishes? Hmmm...maybe I need to be a Buffer/Emchanter. First buff my enemy, so the side effects don't affect him, then Charm him so he's now my friend. How does the magic know when to overheat the target and when not to? I can come up with plenty of great Buff spells that won't improve the target's combat capabilities. The short answer here is that either the target/beneficiary of the magic has the heat issues or he doesn't. If he does, then casting beneficial spells on enemies in heavy armor becomes a viable strategy. If the target is not affected by the heat, Buffing allies becomes more effective than using magic directly.

 

It is not built as a "limitation" in the Hero sense. It is an intrinsic part of the system. You can come up with a background that will help you deal with the effect, but you cannot simply pay points to "not take" the "limitation". I would probably suggest you buy REC with a limitation or use it as a justification to exceed characteristic maxima for END or REC. But I'd listen to other ideas if you had them.

As you note, the full details haven't been fleshed out. As a player, I'd be looking at the full details to assess whether a spellcaster is even viable as a character, given the restrictions you impose on magic. I've seen quite a few magic systems that, reading through them, basically say "magic is not intended for player characters".

[eepjr24]

So if I cast a spell on my teammate, it has a negative side effect, but if I cast it on an opponent, the side effect mysteriously vanishes? Hmmm...maybe I need to be a Buffer/Emchanter. First buff my enemy, so the side effects don't affect him, then Charm him so he's now my friend. How does the magic know when to overheat the target and when not to? I can come up with plenty of great Buff spells that won't improve the target's combat capabilities. The short answer here is that either the target/beneficiary of the magic has the heat issues or he doesn't. If he does, then casting beneficial spells on enemies in heavy armor becomes a viable strategy. If the target is not affected by the heat, Buffing allies becomes more effective than using magic directly.

 

As you note, the full details haven't been fleshed out. As a player, I'd be looking at the full details to assess whether a spellcaster is even viable as a character, given the restrictions you impose on magic. I've seen quite a few magic systems that, reading through them, basically say "magic is not intended for player characters".

I think I have answered what I could on the other questions, pretty sure I have it covered for the people who I am likely to have as players. 

 

As to spells having vanishing effects, no, they don't. If you spent the points to make something both UBO and UAA, or have variable advantages to cover it, it will work fine. Thus you have paid the points. If you want to do UBO only and charm people, that works too, you paid the points.

 

The system is intended for magic users to be playable characters. They just will not be the ONLY playable characters. You can do just fine without magic at all if you want. Some of the effects of magical items can be achieved with non-magical means, either through higher quality items or better "technology" or just with more skill.

 

- E

[Hugh Neilson]

I've never found spellcasters to be the only playable characters in Fantasy Hero. If anything the fact that they tend not to get to leverage CP free equipment disadvantages them in many games.

 

Your model may work just fine, but I'd certainly weigh the negatives for the spellcaster in making my decision.

[eepjr24]

Magic System

Name:   

• Aysah (working name)

Source:

• Environmental

Availability:

• Some magic is available almost everywhere. Low mana areas include Tundra or Arctic areas. Next up is places without significant plant or animal life. Middle ground is most places with normal plant and animal life.
• Significant natural energies (waterfalls, volcano, hot springs, geysers, dense lush growth, etc) will also increase the ambient magic. 

Replenishing:

• It is difficult to exhaust the magic in an area but if it is depleted then it will affect the animals and other life in the area. Without outside aid it will replenish over decades if badly drawn down and can take centuries if it is nearly exhausted. This will likely have equivalent dire effects on the land.

Access:

• Generally requires training or innate ability to access. Nearly always takes energy from the user as they channel the environmental energies.

Spheres:

• There are many spheres in Aysah. They include 7 primary elements: Earth, Metal, Fire, Spirit, Water, Wind, Void. In addition to the primary elements there are many other secondary and tertiary elements.

Metadata:

• No personal Endurance Reserves. They may sometimes be found in nature or on items.
• All magical effects cost endurance. Even magical armor and weapons require at least 1 END to function. Most also require LTE.
• Magic produces heat as a byproduct energy.
• All spells must have at least -1 in limitations. Anything less than that can be made up with various levels of increased endurance cost. Common limitations in the system include Concentration, Endurance limitations, Extra Time, Focus, Gestures, Incantations, Physical Manifestation, Range Limitations, Requires a Roll, and Side Effects. Note that increased limitations reduces LTE cost at certain break points.
• Because of the heat caused by casting is channeled directly to the caster, most casters choose not to wear armor or items that would add to that. If a caster does cast spells in armor this is modeled by adding 1 LTE to the spell endurance cost for every 2 DEF (or part thereof) and 2 END per 3 DEF (or part thereof) of protection.
• LTE cost for spells is 1 LTE per 10 RP (or part thereof). The exception is spells that are Cantrips (15 AP or less) with RP of 5 or less, which cost no LTE unless you are wearing armor.
• Spell duration for almost all spells is 1 day or less. Rotation around the sun has diminishing effects on dweomer that is not imbued into a permanent container. Casting a spell that lasts more then 20 minutes costs additional LTE. 1 additional LTE for effects up to an hour, 2 for up 6 hours, 3 up to a day, 4 for up to a week, etc.
• GM approval is required for all spells and new spells require spell research. Exceptions can be made for new character creation.

Frameworks:

• Aysah practitioners may use frameworks appropriate to their class or style of magic. Player characters with innate skill may use Multipowers (ex: Bards, Monks, Sorcerers and similar). Those who rely on learning may use VPP's (Wizards and others of similar learning style). Any type of caster may also buy powers outside the framework and unify them either with each other or with the framework.

Restricted Powers:

• Regeneration or healing from death is not possible short of direct divine intervention.
• Life Support versus extreme heat does not affect LTE generated from spells due to heat. To simulate handling this type of heat either buy END or REC with appropriate limitations. There are also some items and effects that help recover LTE loss. Life Support verses extreme heat and cold cost 2x the normal LTE cost due to the delicate nature of controlling the bodies temperature and adjusting for the heat generated by the body channeling magic.
• Reduced END Cost is not allowed except in rare circumstances with GM approval.
• Spell duration for almost all spells is 1 day or less. Rotation around the sun has diminshing effects on dweomer that is not imbued into a permanent container. Casting a spell that lasts more then 5 minutes costs additional LTE.
   

 

Updated with latest information and taking into consideration feedback above. More comments welcome, especially if I have not already addressed them. I will also be adding Divine Magic shortly.

 

- E

 

Edit: Minor fixes and additions.

Edited August 2, 2016 by eepjr24

[Steve]

Hmmm...per page 133 of 6E2, dedicated Aid and Heal abilities can be set up to affect LTE at the rate of 3 character points per point of LTE.

 

Unless Healing is limited to divine spellcasters?

[eepjr24]

Hmmm...per page 133 of 6E2, dedicated Aid and Heal abilities can be set up to affect LTE at the rate of 3 character points per point of LTE.

 

Unless Healing is limited to divine spellcasters?

It's permissible: "There are also some items and effects that help recover LTE loss." Probably at the start of the game no one will know those types of spells, however. They are rarely taught by those who learn them and often require resources that they would rather not have others competing for.

 

Did you see something that indicated it was not possible? I have been doing edits so I could have missed something?

[Steve]

It's permissible: "There are also some items and effects that help recover LTE loss." Probably at the start of the game no one will know those types of spells, however. They are rarely taught by those who learn them and often require resources that they would rather not have others competing for.

 

Did you see something that indicated it was not possible? I have been doing edits so I could have missed something?

The impression I had of the mechanics of your system is that magic should be draining and spellcasters should burn out pretty quickly. Having a spell available to cast that restores LTE seems to run counter to that philosophy. If there are herbs or ancient magical artifacts that restore LTE, that just seems more in line.

 

If such restorative magic was only made available to divine spellcasters, that opens up a teamwork synergy between a priest and wizard to work together.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I wonder how people from extreme environments view magic. A culture like the real-life Inuit, who spend their entire lives in climates too cold for anyone else to tolerate, would be very interested in temperature control, but live in areas that would have little magical energy. Perhaps they have a lot of experience with exiled mages from other parts of the world sent to their lands as punishment -- you may not be able to take away their ability to cast spells, but you can limit their power and still call them back in a situation where they would be needed. Or a mage could exile himself to the wastes voluntarily for a period of meditation or reflection.

 

As far as combat, it probably becomes obvious that the guy fighting in street clothes is the mage. Armor for mages is a very bad idea in this system, as is anything that restricts the flow of air around them. A hyper-cleanliness fetish might emerge among mages, because no matter how lightly you dress (and even if you fight naked) you are going to come out of a magic battle drenched in sweat -- and probably badly dehydrated as well. Fluids and a bath would be imperative -- the bath to make your company at all acceptable, and fluids to keep you from collapsing or dropping dead. Since alcohol makes dehydration worse, mages might well be teetotalers who rely on fruit juices and magically-purified water to rehydrate.

[Burrito Boy]

If there are herbs or ancient magical artifacts that restore LTE, that just seems more in line.

This comment reminded me of the Potion of Laumspur from the Lone Wolf books.

 

http://lonewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Laumspur

[eepjr24]

Honestly, I think LTE will be a significant issue but not a crippling one. .If a Mage has full END for NCM we are talking about 50 LTE they would have to burn. And they could recover up to 30 in a full day of rest (two 5 hour long rests plus 8 hours of sleep). What it stops is having zero carry over from exhausting yourself with spells the previous day. And ties in physical exertion as well.

 

- E

[eepjr24]

I wonder how people from extreme environments view magic. A culture like the real-life Inuit, who spend their entire lives in climates too cold for anyone else to tolerate, would be very interested in temperature control, but live in areas that would have little magical energy. Perhaps they have a lot of experience with exiled mages from other parts of the world sent to their lands as punishment -- you may not be able to take away their ability to cast spells, but you can limit their power and still call them back in a situation where they would be needed. Or a mage could exile himself to the wastes voluntarily for a period of meditation or reflection.

I like this. I think I will add some regional potions that deal with the extremes of the local using local ingredients. So it is still difficult to control personal temperature, but using fresh melted snow and certain lichen in your potion you can make it possible.

 

 

As far as combat, it probably becomes obvious that the guy fighting in street clothes is the mage. Armor for mages is a very bad idea in this system, as is anything that restricts the flow of air around them. A hyper-cleanliness fetish might emerge among mages, because no matter how lightly you dress (and even if you fight naked) you are going to come out of a magic battle drenched in sweat -- and probably badly dehydrated as well. Fluids and a bath would be imperative -- the bath to make your company at all acceptable, and fluids to keep you from collapsing or dropping dead. Since alcohol makes dehydration worse, mages might well be teetotalers who rely on fruit juices and magically-purified water to rehydrate.

It's not perfectly clear cut, since monks often wear no armor and even some barbarian types wear little to no armor. And there will probably be wide variety, with mages in some cultures being known as foul smelling and generally dirty and others as members of the nobility with excellent personal grooming. It does depend somewhat on the climate as well, in hotter climates it is not uncommon for most people to wear scents to obscure their body odor.

 

- E

[Steve]

Most of the discussion has been on wizardry and a little bit on priestly magic. Will there be any other sources of special abilities? Do monks use chi or are they a type of wizard that uses LTE? Are there psionic abilities?

 

How do magical creatures fit into this? Would a unicorn use LTE for its abilities? Do demons use the same source of magic as priests?

[eepjr24]

Most of the discussion has been on wizardry and a little bit on priestly magic. Will there be any other sources of special abilities? Do monks use chi or are they a type of wizard that uses LTE? Are there psionic abilities?

 

How do magical creatures fit into this? Would a unicorn use LTE for its abilities? Do demons use the same source of magic as priests?

There will be special abilities for other classes. Monks will have ki based powers, which functionally is LTE based and limited mostly to self affecting abilities. They will not have all of the restrictions placed on other types of channeling, but still have the armor restrictions. No psionics known right now. 

 

Anything that casts spells will have to pay the LTE by some method. Divine casters have the avatars of their granting entity to pay it. I will post a separate thread on the current divine set up, I am almost ready for that.

 

In the case of things that have abilities as part of their make up (persistent or always on), LTE is not required, but regular endurance or the like is still used. Demons can fall both under the "persistent ability" and "cast spell" categories, depending. As could any intelligent "monster" capable of casting spells.

 

- E

[Steve]

Since every magical effect generates heat as a side effect, it makes me wonder if deserts are somehow a side effect of too much magic use. Instead of Atlantis sinking beneath the sea, there is a scorched desert where a former grand empire of magic once existed.

 

Likewise, extremely cold places could also mean something in the cosmology of the world. Could an ancient empire have somehow transferred the mana from these now extremely cold places, hastening the burning and eventual desertification of their land?

 

Thinking about it this way reminds me of Dark Sun, replacing defilers with the burning of lands from too much magic usage.

[Nolgroth]

I'm liking how you really thought out much of the system. 

 

Question: Have you considered using ambient Temperature Levels (6E2, Page 145 ; FHC, Page 166) to adjust how much Heat from spellcasting actually affects the caster? Basically, does casting spells in an Arctic climate nullify some or all of the Heat and casting in a Tropical climate increase the Heat damage?

 

What is a sample breakdown of available Mana per climate type? For example: Tropical Rainforest= x mana, Arctic Tundra= y mana, Temperate Forest=z mana...

 

How much of a boost do natural formations like volcanoes, waterfalls, etc. add? What is the range you are envisioning? 

[Michael Hopcroft]

Traditionally chi/ki has been viewed as an internal force that comes from the will of the practitioner himself. If it is independent of mana but cannot be used to cast spells, then there would be situations where monks would have great advantages. It would be the inner reserve the monk summons when he needs to do something extraordinarily difficult physically or mentally but within the realm of human possibility. Combat is the obvious example, but recovery of health (from combat damage, disease, stress and grief, and so on) is another thing monks can use chi for.

 

A monk with the right knowledge might be able to mess around with other people's chi, helping it balance and using that to restore a person to a better state of health -- without resorting to magic at all. "Psychic healing" might actually work.

[eepjr24]

Since every magical effect generates heat as a side effect, it makes me wonder if deserts are somehow a side effect of too much magic use. Instead of Atlantis sinking beneath the sea, there is a scorched desert where a former grand empire of magic once existed.

 

Likewise, extremely cold places could also mean something in the cosmology of the world. Could an ancient empire have somehow transferred the mana from these now extremely cold places, hastening the burning and eventual desertification of their land?

 

Thinking about it this way reminds me of Dark Sun, replacing defilers with the burning of lands from too much magic usage.

The channeling of enough magic is what caused some environmental damage in the world. Deserts were born and other less obvious effects in some remote places. The poles were affected but perhaps not in the most obvious ways.

 

The concept is not that uncommon as a Fantasy trope. The Mage Winds series from Mercedes Lackey also delves into it. A radiation variation is essentially the basis of Gamma World, etc.

 

- E

[eepjr24]

Question: Have you considered using ambient Temperature Levels (6E2, Page 145 ; FHC, Page 166) to adjust how much Heat from spellcasting actually affects the caster? Basically, does casting spells in an Arctic climate nullify some or all of the Heat and casting in a Tropical climate increase the Heat damage?

 

What is a sample breakdown of available Mana per climate type? For example: Tropical Rainforest= x mana, Arctic Tundra= y mana, Temperate Forest=z mana...

 

How much of a boost do natural formations like volcanoes, waterfalls, etc. add? What is the range you are envisioning? 

Yes, the temperature level will have a direct effect since it limits recovery of LTE. Not so much in the side effects directly affecting the caster, although in cool enough areas it will be easier to not expend so much LTE, balancing the recovery somewhat.

 

Climate affects the mana available, it does not directly affect the power of a spell (at least not for any mortal mages yet). 

 

For some special areas it will have a variable effect. You lose less LTE or a spell becomes more powerful or has another power linked to it or it randomly gives the caster END, etc.

[eepjr24]

A monk with the right knowledge might be able to mess around with other people's chi, helping it balance and using that to restore a person to a better state of health -- without resorting to magic at all. "Psychic healing" might actually work.

I may allow some ki or energy manipulation in others. It depends on if we have a Monk who decides to explore that.

 

- E

[Steve]

Thinking about deities taking the heat effects of casting, it could be that demons can also act as magical heat sinks for a spellcaster. This could give demonologists magical abilities somewhat like that of a priest, the arrangement either unwilling on the demon's part (wizard has bound them somehow) to willing (they're getting paid in sacrifices or the mage sold his soul). Necromancers could also use spirits or corpses in this fashion. These two methods of magic might be quicker and easier paths than more traditional forms of spellcasting.

 

Perhaps familiars might also be used to act as heat sinks.

 

I would suggest having chi abilities be different than regular spellcasting and draw purely from internal energies rather than external ones. My thinking is that using magic generates heat because it takes an external power source (mana) and channels it into magical effects by acts of willpower. In the case of a mage, they are the channel so get hit with the heat. In the case of a priest (and maybe a demonologist), they have another soaking up the heating in their place. Monks might only use their internal energies, so they could be limited in what they can do with it and less powerful in Active Points allowed, but they don't burn LTE in exchange for their ascetic practices and mental discipline.

 

It could be that the heat effect is due to some pollution of magic that the earlier age did not have to contend with. Something happened at the end of that age, and now magic usage is cursed with this effect.

[eepjr24]

Thinking about deities taking the heat effects of casting, it could be that demons can also act as magical heat sinks for a spellcaster. This could give demonologists magical abilities somewhat like that of a priest, the arrangement either unwilling on the demon's part (wizard has bound them somehow) to willing (they're getting paid in sacrifices or the mage sold his soul). Necromancers could also use spirits or corpses in this fashion. These two methods of magic might be quicker and easier paths than more traditional forms of spellcasting.

Demon summoners generally either pay the LTE themselves or the demon pays it (as you say, through some deal with it's lord or as payment in kind). If they pay it themselves it tends to be in the form of blood, demonology will likely be almost all blood magic.

 

Necromancy can come in a couple forms. Clerics in this setting will not be more effective against undead than typical players, but a form of Necromancer that hunts and "puts to rest" the restless dead will be. These are Void Necromances and Spirit Necromancers. Both still pay LTE, unless the void Necromancer has formed a pact with some entity and has it's avatar to handle things (the easier kind of necromancy).

 

 

Perhaps familiars might also be used to act as heat sinks.

Most would drop from exhaustion or perish quickly. It is possible, but most caster have better uses for their familiars.

 

I would suggest having chi abilities be different than regular spellcasting and draw purely from internal energies rather than external ones. My thinking is that using magic generates heat because it takes an external power source (mana) and channels it into magical effects by acts of willpower. In the case of a mage, they are the channel so get hit with the heat. In the case of a priest (and maybe a demonologist), they have another soaking up the heating in their place. Monks might only use their internal energies, so they could be limited in what they can do with it and less powerful in Active Points allowed, but they don't burn LTE in exchange for their ascetic practices and mental discipline.

I'll give this some thought. I don't like limiting one class to a lower AP than others, but it might be balanced if they have enough variety of powers.

 

 

It could be that the heat effect is due to some pollution of magic that the earlier age did not have to contend with. Something happened at the end of that age, and now magic usage is cursed with this effect.

Magic causes heat because mortals are imperfect vessels for channeling it. It's like trying to pour lava through a Manganese tube instead of tungsten. It will work for a while but things are going to get uncomfortable.

 

- E

[Hugh Neilson]

A thought from another discussion.

 

The mana aspect hasn't received a lot of attention. One possibility to consider - Change Environment pricing to enhance or decrease accessible mana in an area. Perhaps the former is not possible (it's been used up - it can't be enhanced) or perhaps it draws mana from a wider area, dessicating larger spaces in exchange for mana access now. The latter perhaps suppresses, rather than removing, access to mana in an area, or perhaps just uses it up so the opponent can't use it for other effects.

 

If the available mana impacts the LTE costs, these effects could be even more relevant.

[eepjr24]

The mana aspect hasn't received a lot of attention. One possibility to consider - Change Environment pricing to enhance or decrease accessible mana in an area. Perhaps the former is not possible (it's been used up - it can't be enhanced) or perhaps it draws mana from a wider area, dessicating larger spaces in exchange for mana access now. The latter perhaps suppresses, rather than removing, access to mana in an area, or perhaps just uses it up so the opponent can't use it for other effects.

 

If the available mana impacts the LTE costs, these effects could be even more relevant.

I would not see it as suppressing the mana but making channeling more difficult. But yes, I like the idea. Using Change Environment to impose limitations on a particular school or type of magic, either as a direct attack (a potion that you target the caster with) or passively (a token or item that you carry with an AoE). This could provide a variety of effects, adding skill rolls, extending casting times, increasing endurance cost, perhaps even increasing LTE.

 

- E