whitekeys

I am still interested in hearing more thoughts, but I wanted to add this: If there wasn't really a convenient / cheap way of making a Multiform with unlimited forms, what you would folks, as GMs, be willing to hand-wave to make it happen for your PCs?

Ya, are you going to let them Abort to opening a portal and jumping through it? Putting an interesting side effect may temper their own choice to use it, however they use it. Like if it's a "blind" portal. Or if it drains their stamina when transporting, or does some kind of damage to them in transporting. Just some ideas.

Your special effect is not defined in your original post, but it sounds like some kind of psionic/mind control ability, or something fear based. Having a mental/psychological aspect to this power can be a special effect of PRE. I would suggest purchasing high PRE, possibly with some limitations, and have the vampire PRE Attack people into not wanting to attack her. You can apply any special effect you desire to this. It covers Constant and AoE without any extra rules or advantages. Then you can combine this with Striking Appearance and other Defensive powers with the same special effect to bolster the power. However, it should be noted that PRE Attacks and other PRE-based skills should not be used on PCs, as per the suggestion in the rules. If this character is supposed to be a nemesis to the PCs, it might be frustrating for them. If this is a character you're playing, keep going! It's totally awesome.

Cantriped is correct in that I'm referencing many sources to create a HERO conversion of Pokemon. But that being said, the idea that Ditto can only transform into the enemy it's battling is a too-restrictive version of Ditto's transform ability. It's known in the anime, and from other sources as well, that Ditto can transform into any form. It has the ability to transform from memory, though this process is "inaccurate". I read somewhere on Bulbapedia that Ditto transforms into a rock while sleeping for protection. After all, there may very well be a circumstance in a RPG campaign where a Ditto is battling more than one opponent. Which one to transform into? That was the trouble with buying the number of forms, or some kind of "floating" multiform. Or maybe a Linked Shapeshift? And also the idea behind utilizing "requires a roll" in some circumstances, at least. Or basing the transform on some kind of other Roll, like Perception, or Analyze.

It's cool, theDarkness! I just went to bed because it's late here and I'm tired, yo. But now it is morning! It's a special effect, to me. For example, perhaps your incantation is a whispered phrase of an ancient language. Despite being whispered, though, it still carries on the wind to the ears of [who ever the GM decides needs to hear it], like the target or the surrounding folk. If what I say here is true, then it's a poorly worded rule in the book, to describe it as loud and therefore audible at a distance. You make excellent points about the cost relative to the special effect. I'm not saying it is, I'm saying I have a hard time believing Steve is forcing that kind of a special effect onto the limitation. Is it true that Gestures and Incantations were, in large part, put into the book on the influence of wizardry from other genres? If so, perhaps it needs to be updated in future editions to be more clearly defined for other genres.

Memorization may not be an issue in most campaigns, but it provides something to be attacked, just like a Focus or a power that is Restrainable provides a target for enemies attacks. Gagging, Draining someone's INT, or using mental attacks to slur someone's speech, and the list goes on. Or is it just a special effect? Fire powers don't work underwater, but there's no limitation value for that. Hmm.... The context is important. If you were in a campaign setting where everyone was deaf, or where ubiquitous aliens didn't have a sense of hearing, then it probably wouldn't be worth a limitation. But generally, with Darkness, sound-proof rooms, etc., we're talking about certain circumstances. The GM would have to decide how unbalancing any of these combinations of powers and limitations would be. If your main superpower is invisibility, it might not work to have Gestures put on all your other powers, regardless of how you define Gestures. But maybe you're only invisible once in a while when you happen upon a potion. Then I wouldn't see any reason to render other Gestures powers useless... it would have the reverse effect of nullifying any benefit of Invisibility for your character. But I think the topic from earlier was whether or not people, or the target specifically, or anything at all, needed to hear you, or be cognizant of your speech, in order for Incantation powers to WORK (not be worth a limitation).

That interpretation (of Gestures), while I see your point, feels to me like Steve is forcing a kind of special effect onto us. I mean... are the only Gestures available to me waving my arms in large motions? Harry Potter's wand flicks are pretty small... And any of those powers (actual examples are escaping me now) where you gather a ball of energy in front of your chest, and then direct it... seems like a reasonable Gesture. And like you said... you need to have use of your hands and arms, so if you can't encircle your hands around that ball of power, you don't get to use the power. I feel like Steve just wanted to encourage us to make a specific movement that related the use of the power, so that we didn't think any ol' motion would do - like pulling the trigger on a gun. And SPECIFIC motion, too, to keep it a separate limitation from Restrainable. Good points about Incantations. ...Always with the special effects... EDIT: And speaking of Restainable, it's even more so an argument for my position, being that there are no similar Limitations to Incantations that you could suggest someone take instead if they didn't want to shout. I could see someone about to say "..all those examples should be Restainable" but what are you going to say about Incantations? It's the only speaking related limitation.

I think I might be saying that the essence of the Incantations limitation is that you need to have the use of your voice and the ability to form words, the capability of remembering the specific incantation of the power, and other things required for that process. Additionally, people will hear you, the power will become more obvious, etc., as a result of using a power with Incantations. However, just because those latter two are negated for whatever reason, does not render the power useless or not able to be activated. Only negating the former requirements would render the power useless or not able to be activated.

Actually, come to think of it, the science of sound here might give us some clues. Sound can be described as "pressure variations", or waves, travelling through a substance, usually gas or liquid, which are interpreted by the nerves in the cochlea. How do we envision It would depend on the special effect of the Invisibility power. Are you in a person-sized sound-dampening field? Or does your body gel and mold over each surfaces it touches, ensuring no pressure changes are produced? Do you emanate some kind of pressure-stabilizing force, somewhat like how a black hole sucks back light? Or do you mentally suppress the ability to hear certain frequencies and oscillations in the ears of people around you? Then it would be up to the GM to decide, based on common sense, dramatic sense, and game balance, whether that falling wrench made a noise or not.

I have to disagree. The write up on Gestures says something similar, that characters must make "out of the ordinary" movements. I felt that Steve wanted people to know that the Gestures had to be something specific and relevant to the power, portraying that the power is being used. For example, pulling the trigger on a gun does not warrant the Gestures limitation, but if it was a large Steampunk electro-shocker that required continual cranking, it would have Focus and Gestures (requires both hands, gestures throughout.) If you were prevented from making cranking motions, it would render the power useless. If you roll really good on Stealth, and no one can see you, can you use Gestures to activate powers? Similarly for Incantations. It's not necessarily about the loudness or the audibility of the Incantations, it's simply that you have to say something specific and obvious for the power to work. Gandalf whispers to butterfly to Summon the Eagles. If we was prevented from speaking that specific thing, through a gag, or my magical muting, the power would not have worked. If you're Invisible to Hearing, you still get to say things, loudly or not, it's just that other people can't hear them. If you're in a soundproof room and no one can hear you, can you not use Incantations to activate powers? IT's the same effect, is it not? It's not whether or not you are being heard, but that you are making the sounds. EDIT: I mean, I don't disagree with Steve's rules, I'm just giving another interpretation, despite how clear it might seem to others. It's the "spirit" of the rules.

I have been having trouble, lately, deciding whether to use Linked or Unified for certain powers - ones which require, as a result of their special effect, two power effects simultaneously. Can you clarify how they should be used? Examples below: 1. An attack power that does damage upfront (like a Blast 5d6) and has a percent chance to inflict a 'status condition' (like Flinched, say, as a Drain DCV). Is the Drain Linked to the Blast, because the effect of the Drain can only occur at the point of successful Blast attack (regardless of how you determine the "percent chance")? 2. An attack power that does damage over time (like a Blast 1d6+1, Damage Over Time), the amount of damage inflicted then heals the attacker (Healing, Uncontrolled?; Level Dependent on Damage Done by Blast?). Is the Healing Linked to the Blast, Unified with the Blast, or could there be some other Conditional Limitation Only Works Near Target Affected By [blast, Damage Over Time] after making the base Healing power Constant? Would it still need to be Linked, in addition? 3. A piece of equipment: the PokeBall, which the forums recently agreed would be built as (a pretty probably-not-legal-and-complicated) Entangle with Backlash plus Extra Dimensional Movement, UAA*. Is it a Compound Power because it's a piece of equipment? Or are the powers Linked/Unified, regardless of the Focus limitation? *To clarify this power, the Extra Dimensional Movement transports the target into, what is essentially, an extra dimensional Entangle. If the target can break out of the Entangle, they are freed from the Extra Dimension and placed back in their Dimension of origin. If they cannot, as a result of Backlash, they are trapped in the Extra Dimension. Thanks

Damage Over Time is a great idea. I'm not attempting to replicate each aspect of how the attack works in the Pokemon video game. That's why I said "Other details are irrelevant." In fact, I should have left out 1/16 of the HP, because that's also not what I wanted to do. I have no problem buying d6's of damage for any damage the Leech Seed attack would do in a HERO Power. I simply wanted to build an attack power that healed the attacker at equal proportions to the damage dealt over time. One of my problems is that I'm not quite sure the difference between Unified and Linked, or what are the best ways to get two different effects to occur at the same time. I always hear about Linked. I'm not surprised it was the first suggestion. I rarely hear anything about Unified, though.

Comin' at you with more Pokemon stuff. If it gets annoying, let me know How would you build Leech Seed? Leech seed, a damaging grass-type attack, is an attack that plants a seed in the opponent pokemon, and each turn drains 1/16 of the Pokemon's health. The HP drained is then absorbed by the attacking pokemon, to heal it. Other details are not necessarily relevant. This seems to me to be a Unified Drain and Heal. However, the Drain is technically temporary, right? I had been modelling a lot of the Drain-based powers (Status moves, in the video game) with a Delayed Return Rate (Lasts until the end of battel; +1). Blast is perhaps more appropriate (STUN only campaign). Absorption seems the most appropriate for "absorbing" things, but it requires damage to be dealt to the seeder, not damage being dealt to the seedee. Any thoughts much appreciated.

lol, true. I wonder what chocolate covered Caterpie tastes like? Ryhorn, an aphrodisiac?

The way this power is built is partially dependent on how we understand the power to work in the video game, or the anime, but I wanted to get some feedback. So, as you probably know, Ditto has the ability to Transform into other kinds of pokemon. Here are some of my questions and ideas: 1. I'm doing multiform. I think that's the best, but other votes for Transform? 2. Would you pay the 5 CP to double the number of Forms up to approximately the current number of Pokemon in the game (x512, 45 Points), or would you pay a flat rate for a "floating" form, or would you pay for some kind of Analyze/Detect upon which the Transform depended? 3. To keep the price reasonable and game balance, I restricted the CPs in the most expensive form to the Total Points in the Ditto itself, so that it's not actually able to become more powerful than it is already. It just copies the abilities and stats of the opponent, assuming they're roughly equivalent. Otherwise, you'd have to pay the upfront cost of transforming into Mewtwo, Regigas, etc. With Limitations put on the Transform, the Ditto should never "fall behind", so to speak, because otherwise every Experience Point you received would have to be put into the Transform power to keep up. Here's the current power: 14 Transform: Multiform (75 Character Points in the most expensive form) (x512 Number Of Forms), Reversion (+0), Must Be Used At Full Power (-0) (59 Active Points); 4 Recoverable Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Healing at PokeCenter required for Recovery; -1 1/4), Costs Endurance (To Stay In Form; -1), Lockout (-1/2), Requires A Power Skill Roll (Analyze: Pokemon Skill roll; -1/2) 6 4. Limitation: (a) Not sure if Must Be Used at Full Power is a legit Limitation, but it seems to make sense, since I envision it only fully transforming into another pokemon, and not doing half and half. ( 4 Charges was just a guess at the PP of the ability (or representing Ditto's fatigue before needing rest at the PokeCenter). © Costs endurance to Stay In Form - cost saver, not necessary (d) Lockout - to prevent it from using any other attack it might have learned as Ditto. 5. Requires a roll... I thought, to keep it balanced when coming up against more powerful pokemon, that Ditto would have to roll some kind of Analyze Skill Roll first, to examine the pokemon, and possibly take more time to figure out its abilities, etc. But, I also thought it should require an Activation Roll for the power itself, back before I had reduced the CP in the most expensive form to 75, rather than 500. Another way of putting it might be like this: 30 Transform: Multiform (500 Character Points in the most expensive form) (x512 Number Of Forms), Reversion (+0), Must Be Used At Full Power (-0) (145 Active Points); 4 Recoverable Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Healing at PokeCenter required for Recovery; -1 1/4), Requires A Power Skill Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 5 Active Point difference in forms modifier; -1), Costs Endurance (To Stay In Form; -1), Lockout (-1/2) 14 So, if attempting to change Forms into a 500-point Pokemon, that would be 100 Active points. Its current form (the Ditto itself) is built on 75 total points, so 15 Active Points. The difference is 85 Active Points, divided by 5 is 17. The Power Skill Roll would take a -17 penalty. In order to offset this penalty by buying up the Power Skill with +17 would be 34 points, although, by the time you got 34 Exp, the difference between the Active Point totals would be less, meaning less of a penalty.

Out of curiosity, are you familiar with one of the earlier episodes called So Near, Yet So Farfetch'd? The PokeDex states that Farfetch'd "makes a delicious soup" or something like that, "especially when prepared with leek". I wonder if that was supposed to be a joke or something, because it gives the idea that people actually eat pokemon. Curious! I figured two broad categories (very broad) of legislation would be protecting the rights of pokemon (under which most of the stuff you mentioned falls), and licensing/educating trainers. I figured it was a lot like hunting and similar animal rights rules we have IRL. You had some great suggestions!

We officially started a Pokemon campaign last Thursday. Here are the details: I appreciate the standard/cliche stuff when trying out a new genre or series for the first time, so we agree to be 10 year-olds, entering the next stage of life as new pokemon trainers, and embarking on a journey of... well, that's up to the PCs! I elaborated on the idea that coming-of-age trainers get a starter Pokemon form a Pokemon Professor at a research facility. I figured, with a touch more realism, kids could probably get their starter pokemon from all kinds of different sources (like buying them, legally or illegally, or handed down from a parent, or any other tradition similar to hunting IRL, etc.) but I liked the idea of organizations offering starter pokemon to kids in exchange for student/summer work. The PCs liked the idea of getting a job with a conservationist group and choosing from a number of pokemon that were sick/orphaned. Part of their job is to rehabilitate them. Then they put in a few months of data collection (like counting the number of pokemon species in an area) and maintenance (clearing waterways, planting trees, etc). It's a dynamic setting - it gets them out, moving, doing things, and in the exact kind of environment where they're likely to encounter wild pokemon, or other morally black-and-white problems like poachers, natural disasters, corporate insurgency, or diseases. Their first pokemon, and any other pokemon obtained in a similar way (with significant plot implications, that is), is built as a follower (caught pokemon built as Summons). I will create them and give them interesting personality quirks, and complications. It's in an area East of Orre, west of Aron, according to this map. Everything else is pretty much standard. I'll come out with some of the character creation basics that I have laid down, for both trainers and pokemon. But I've been trying to re-envision the pokemon League as an organization that doesn't just schedule the contests, tournaments, and the gyms, but is actually governmental and polices the use and care of pokemon in every facet. Any ideas of what might be contained in something like The Pokemon Act? lol

It seems to me that any game where players are playing themselves should be free-form/super rules-lite. The PCs know themselves well enough that they don't have to write up a characters sheet on themselves and they can base their decisions in-game on what they're capable of in the real world. I agree that you're going to run into all the problems previously mentioned in this thread, but you could do away with them if you drop the character sheets.

Excuse me, sorry.

If you can dupe good enough, you might be able to get it for free.

I read this whole thread before I realized it was so old! Now I'm contemplating whether I should comment or not... Oh well, here goes! The OP never really answered all the excellent questions that were asked, but I would add Uncontrolled onto the quoted Power, and let the GM and players decide when it actually comes in to help them. This seems like the best option to me, since I agree with the idea that, since it effects all the elves equally, it's just a special effect. The HERO System rules are used to create unique characters with a schtick. EDIT: I meant No Conscious Control limitation, not Uncontrolled.

It's good to point out that the power level of the wild pokemon in the anime, and to a certain extent in the video games as well, were not all the same power level. I chose to point-balance the pokemon for a few reasons: 1. I felt it was in keeping with the HERO System philosophy in general, though that doesn't refute anything you mentioned in your post. 2. Despite being "wild", these were also designed as potential starter pokemon that PCs could choose from at the beginning of a campaign. That, or pokemon that they might catch early on in the game, and my desire was to have them be similar power levels to the starter pokemon. I had to ask myself "In a campaign where the PCs are freshly 10 years old, how powerful would their starter pokemon, and the first pokemon encountered, be?" 3. Since they would be purchased by PCs during their Pokemon Trainer character creation, point-balance seemed like an important facet of creating these creatures for the indirect influence they would have on the point-balance of the characters themselves. But that would also be the decision of the person buying the pokemon Summon or Follower. 4. The process of creating pokemon, and the end product, are as varied and unique as Superheroes are in any odd Champions campaign (or any other character in any other genre of fiction, for that matter). Who's to say what pokemon learn, as they grow up in the wild, in order to protect themselves? Who's to say what restrictions there are on how Trainers train their pokemon and what techniques they utilize? The points are essentially irrelevant in this respect, but in terms of comparing them here and in play-tests, I thought point-balance would help. And further to that, point-balance issues in general in a Pokemon campaign, will be an important issue to tackle at some stage. For example, if you decide to make your starter pokemon on more points, how easily will you be able to defeat the Elite Four with virtually no experience? I think we can agree there must be some significant differentiation. That being said, I didn't think these pokemon would be standards, necessarily. They just seemed to work. It was almost like young, weak, wild pokemon, such as I created here, were the equivalent of Skilled Normal Characters in the HERO System Character Type Guidelines table. Which means, more powerful pokemon could utilize that guideline in cases of higher point totals, like Powerful Heroic pokemon or Cosmically Powerful Superheroic pokemon, for example. I definitely encourage people to come up with more, asking questions like "How powerful would Team Rocket's pokemon be?" or "How powerful would the Elite Four's pokemon be?" or "Even though the Snorlax in Red/Blue was level 30... I wonder how powerful it should be in this campaign?"

Here are some baseline Pokemon I've created. I would love feedback on them. Charmander, Rattata, Pidgey, Ditto, and Abra, are meant to be "wild" pokemon. This typically means they're a little weaker, and they have different Complications, and they have basic attacks. Ekans and Koffing, I have built as starter pokemon, owned by a trainer, with 10 extra Base Points. Charmander.hdc Rattata.hdc Pidgey.hdc Wild Ditto.hdc Abra.hdc Ekans.hdc Koffing.hdc

So, I'm not hung up on levels (of pokemon, from the videogames), but I thought of an interesting idea to simulate them in a HERO rpgame. What if the Active point cap (and possibly other caps, as well) were a figured on the Base Points of the character. For example, I'm working on a Koffing with 60 Base points. Divided by two, that produces an Active Point limit on Powers of 30. It seems reasonable so far. I was able to make two Powers with the same special effect: Sludge as a Flash 6d6 and an Entangle 3d6/3/3. For the Charmander, 50 Base Points, a 25 AP cap means 5d6 Blast, an average of 15 STUN per attack, with an average PD/ED of 6 and STUN of 30. That takes 5 successful hits to knockout (ignoring the recovery score). There could be other formulae, like 1/3 or 2/3 the Base Points, or different caps for different types of attacks (Entangles vs. Blasts). Divided by two was the one that seemed to make the most sense to me right now. EDIT: Another idea that just hit me, as an example of how caps can simulate the leveling up, or generic growth and evolution, of pokemon, is to cap HA at twice that of the pokemon's STR, so physical moves like Scratch can only increase HTH Damage twofold. Otherwise, using the cap rule from above, a Charmander would be able to Scratch for HA 7d6 even though its relative STR is only 10.

I'm using 6E, but this will be helpful to people using 5E. Thanks for the contribution! As for your last comment, it's a good point, which is why I'm leaving it totally up to each player to create their own attacks. It leaves it open and free, and players won't argue about it (that's my feeling, anyway). They can be whatever they want them to be and whatever they think will be fun to teach their pokemon.