Hugh Neilson

Gary, I'd have bought Personal Immunity on that too... Whamme whamme...why not make your Duplicates "Unable to Recombine" and use the extra points for more duplicates?

Abusiveness...well, how about (some have seen this concept before): +20 EGO 40 points 1d6 Mind Scan, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 16 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points +20 OCV Mind Scan 40 points 1d6 Mind Control, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 64 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points 1d6 Telepathy, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 64 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points 1d6 Mental Illusions, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 64 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points +30 Mental Defense for 30 points (probably not needed - after all, you can't tell he's mind scanning you). That's 270 points. We can use the other 80 for any number of other things, but let's hold them in reserve for flaws. They can always be used for Speed, ruler of a country or some other benefit. Probably "need not sleep". Note that he could be a lot more efficient if all mental powers but Mind Scan went in a multipower (but then he can't MPA!), or his abilities took a full phase (but he needs the other 1/2 phase to sip his drink), or had some other limitations. But this will work for now. hmmm...he could save 32 points by taking "Does not provide mental awareness; -1/4, and spend 3 on mental awareness - does anyone actually allow that limitation? So what does he do? Well, he sits on a tropical beach sipping his margarita and scans for his target (30 OECV - 20 for Whole Planet = 10). Once he finds him, he applies 1-6 points of effect every phase (0-2 if the target has mental defenses) until he has +100 (can attack; undetectable by target for good measure; with -10 to the breakout roll. On a target with 80 Ego, this requires 180 points of effect (280 to make the breakout roll -20; 380 makes it -30). Of course it requires 11 minutes (at 2 speed) to get that kind of effect, 38 minutes if the target has mental defenses. Less time for lower egos, of course, and we can live with a lower breakout penalty. Then he applies his telepathy, mind control and/or mental illusions to the same level of effect (combined, this takes over an hour on Menton...), making the target his puppet. Anyone invisible to Mind Scan avoids him, but we can always get someone else to go after him. After all, we've got time...

OK, mine's similar, but a bit less granular. The Figured Char spreading may be a good idea, though, or it could just mean different breakpoints depending on the perceived "key" figured char. I'll stress I've never used this, but here's where I would probably start: ALL STATS: Whenever the character must make a roll (skill, CHAR, PER, but NOT OCV/DCV type rolls) based on the characteristic, and they miss by one, roll 1d6. The character barely succeeds if he can roll his points in excess of the 3/8 breakpoint. For example, if I have a 13 INT, and a 12- PER roll, on a roll of 13, I fail. If INT is 15, roll a d6 and succeed on a 1 or 2. Some stats have other variables/reasons for +1 point to have meaning, set out below STR: Starting at a 5 point increment: +1 STR = +1 STUN in HTH +2 STR = +1d2 STUN in HTH, +1 BOD on a 6 +3 STR = +1/2 die (as present) +4 STR = +1d6-1, +1 BOD on 2-5, +2 BOD on 6 +5STR = +1d6 These apply in HTH and with normal damage weapons. You could also apply the STUN and/or BOD bonuses on killing weapons, but that's even more complex. Also note that STR in a heroic campaign often has its damage breakpoints modified - Adding 1 point to a 15 STR allows use of a Greataxe at no OCV penalty, for example. A 19 permits its use one handed without penalty. A 21 gets +1 DC 2 handed. If you use a Greataxe, adding 1 to get from 19 to 20 STR has no impact. DEX: The breakpoints skew due to CV's, plus every point is one more chance to move first. CON: Resistance to being Stunned is always nice. BOD: BOD is already granular - it has no breakpoints. INT: If you base maximum spells known, or in progress, etc. on INT, suddenly +1 point becomes important to wizards. EGO: CV impacts this one, and you're more resistant to mental powers with every extra point. Faith-based magic could also use the INT modifier. If it's greater than your PRE, it also helps resist PRE attacks. PRE: Use the same as STR for PRE attacks, and every point resists PRE attacks. COM: Well, if you're using it as a compliment to a skill... [hey, how useful was it anyway!] I also like the suggestion of only allowing a 1 point increment at a time. Adding the abovce might take the sting out of that (at least you get something!). Unfortunately, breakpoints matter in pretty much all games. Look at d20 - use a point build methodm and very few characters have odd numbered stats (unless needed for some desired feat).

"Back to the wall" to me means "rare event". I don't mind seeing something unusual done in such cases. I'm more thinking "matter of course" issues. Perfect sense, and this is a serious weakness I see in the argument that these penalties can be avoided by the "Delay/Abort" tactic. If you use it once in a blue moon, you probably get away with it. If it's your standard tactic, opponents will eventually use it against you.

This is a tangent arising from the Rapid Fire thread (don't worry - it starts here and you don't need to weed through that thread to get the background). The background comes from the drawbacks of Rapid Fire and Sweep - you're at half DCV and it costs your full phase - which some believe discourages its use (and rightly so - there must be some offset to the advantages). One comment was that these aren't so bad if I hold my phase until DEX 1 (or zero, or "how low can you go"), use the Rapid Fire maneuver, and then abort at the start of the next segment, say to Dodge. To me, there's a lot of metagame thinking to that, which sits poorly. This action should take your full pahse, but technically, you can pull it off in Dex 1 of Segment 5, then abort at DEX 150 in Segment 6. Nothing prevents it. Taking this a step further, let's say we build a character with a Multipower with two Ultra slots - a 15d6 Energy Blast, and +30/+30 Force field at 1/2 END. He also has 5 Combat Levels, and some martial arts skills, including Martial Dodge. We'll give him a 5 Speed. At his DEX on phase 5, he Delays. At the very end of the segment, he puts all levels in OCV, and fires off his Energy Blast (maybe he rapid fires it, or uses some other DCV penalizing/OCV bonus maneuver). At the very start of Phase 6, he aborts to activate his force field, Martial Dodge and move his levels to DCV. This is clearly extreme - he could easily be held to only one defensive maneuver, but a character who puts all his offense and most of his defense in a multipower saves a lot of points, and could have considerably more of each. A character with a lot of levels similarly can make a huge OCV/DCV swing. I have a few questions on this for the ranks of Herodom. I don't see any right or wrong answers here, but I'm curious how others have dealt with this. Questions follow: 1. Has this happened/become prevalent in your games, as a GM or player? For me, the answer is no. It doesn't generally fit the genre, and our group isn't focused on maximized tactical strengths, regardless of genre. It's also "extreme metagaming", to my mind. 2. Is it viewed as a problem where it does happen? For me, if it moves out of genre, I'd see it as a bad thing. It's probably OK if all the players are playing the same game, but one guy who min/maxes with a group of role players can really screw up the game (just as one role player in a group of min/maxers likely won't be adding to the fun of the game). 3. If it is a problem, how do you solve it? It's only a problem, by the way, if it's happening AND that detracts from enjoyment of the game. To me, one solution would be establishing some period of time that must pass before a character can abort, probably based on the character's normal phase. For example, perhaps taking a full phase action prevents Aborting until the same DEX in the next phase, whatever DEX you acted on. It could also be done as "relative DEX". You normally move at DEX 23, and DEX 42 is the absolute campaign highest. If you delay to DEX 1, you can't abort until DEX 20 in the next phase [you delayed 22 DEX, and 42-22 = 20.] Of course, one could also reject characters designed to abuse this - like the Multipower Guy noted above. However, some abuses aren't so obvious (esp. combat levels, or simple use of maneuvers with significant drawbacks). These could, I suppose, be mitigated by ruling that the penalties from a half or full phase action remain in place for some period of time after the action, even if you abort (or have another phase) in fairly short order. Perhaps the penalties remain in effect until the same DEX on the next segment. Maybe a longer timeframe applies for full phase actions, or maybe this only applies for full phase actions. So, for example, you can Sweep in DEX 1, Phase 5 with all your levels in OCV (let's say that gives you a DCV 8 x 1/2 = 4), then abort in Phase 6 to Dodge and reallocate your levels to DCV. Let's say that's +6 to your DCV. So you get DCV 8 + 6 = 14, but the Sweep penalty remains, so your DCV is halved to 7 until DEX 1, Phase 6, at which time it returns to full (now 14). All of this adds more complexity, so I wouldn't be inclined to make any changes until/unless I actually see it abused, on a fairly regular basis, in-game. I'm just curious if anyone has seen this go beyond a theoretical issue to an in-game one and, if so, how they've dealt with it.

No specific character, but the most obvious answer to me is to arrange for some photographs of this guy's nocturnal activities to make their way to police and press. Can he be charged? Photos may not be adequate evidence, so probably not. But tried and convicted by the press may well be enough to let him suffer as he deserves. [Certainly, many characters may have more extreme reactions, but this seems a viable one for CvK characters.]

Let's assume as a GM you're comfortable with the power (I'm not sure I would be, but it depends on the effects) to mnake discussion easier. I'm inclined to view the Transform as a form of Adjustment Power and allow the power to heal BOD, but move the rate 1 notch up the time chart for every +1/4 advantage. REC per 10 years or so would seem to ensure the character won't "untransform" in a NCM campaign. REC per 100 years would seem toi do the trick for anyone who doesn't regenerate, and might be inclined to handwave the Regen in that regard (at least it would move the same # of steps up the time chart).

Just adapt the d20 "Book of Erotic Fantasy" [Gee, I wonder why Hero doesn't have an Open Gaming License ]

Wonder what sales on The Ultimate Pony would be? FH needs more books, right? Come on out and support the line!

BTW, for those that haven't figured it out yet, I side with Temuji's logic and aproach. Villains may have equal points, but they aren't equally suited for combat with specific opponents. Two live comic examples: Batman vs the Riddler: A battle of minds - reasonably balanced and a decent read. Ever see "Riddler vs Impulse"?. Riddler tells him about the bomb hidden somewhere in the town and challenges him to solve his riddle in time to find it. During that speech, Impulse searches the town at super speed, finds and dismantles the bomb and brings back the parts. Superman vs Parasite: Supes has always been at a major disadvantage - his powers get stolen by his opponent. But what about the "energy Superman"? After the big build-up to Parasite, Energy Supes reverses his process and leaves a withered husk to be collected by the authorities. No challenge at all. Other, far weaker, opponents are a challenge, however, because their abilities are better suited to challenge Supe's specific new powers. Will I disallow Rapid Atack? Maybe, if it becomes abusive and reduces the fun of the game in play. But not before that's demonstrated in actual play. Pre-banning it removes an element which might just add to, rather than detract from, the game. As for area effect NND's, perhaps the real problem here is the advantage combination, and not the maneuver. Maybe attacks to which normal defenses do not apply should pay extra to circumvent the targetting rules as well. Ego Attacks? Well, I've always wondered why 1d6 Ego Attack costs 10 points per die when an EB vs Ego Defense (+1.5) costs 12.5, 15 if you want a LOS (+1/2) range and 18.75 if it's also invisible to all but mental senses (+3/4). Make them both Zero END and Ego Attack is 15 to EB's 21.25. But again, it seems to work (although no one buys AVLD vs Mental Defense). Even if you use the "swap exotic defenses for +1/2 rule, the comparable is still 13.75 vs 10, 18.75 vs 15 at zero END. Funny...my example which requires +5 in advantages is dismissed out of hand. Your 4d6 0 END area effect NND requires 2 1/2, Gary, and more than twice as many AP.

Or allow it and factor it into my campaign plans. Let's flesh out Tesuji's approach a bit - some villains are there to show how tough the heroes are, others are there for other reasons. OUr Heroes, Meson Man (with his area effect NND and Rapid Firer tactics) and Mistress Mind, with her Rapid Fire tuned Ego Attack are tracking down recent thefts of high tech equipment. Staking out a likely target, they are rewarded in encoutering a group of mercenary supervillains who have targetted this facility for robber. Meson Man's rapid fire area effect NND makes short work of four of them, and the remaining two are quickly taken down by rapid fire ego attacks. Our Heroes overcome 3 to 1 odds. Reading the adoring article in the press the next day, Our Heroes discover that there were three similar robberies at other facilities last night, however. Interrogating their prisoners, however, they obtain a lead - the location of an abandoned warehouse where they were to make the drop (gathered telepathically). Next stop - warehouse - where further clues lead them to another location. Stealthily entering this new location, all is going well until the CLANG of steel walls falling over the entrances. A spotlight fopcuses in on Our Heroes, and they hear menacing laughter. "Ahhh...you finally followed the bread crumbs I left. I though you would be faster. No matter - you'll be just as dead." The lights in the building come up, revealing the use to which the stolen technology has been put - two dozen combat robots (as well as the speakers broadcasting our Master Villain's words from his hidden location, and the cameras letting him see thw show). Rapid Fire NND and Ego Attack does little against automotons who Take no Stun. Now Our Heroes can showcase their versatility and prudent tactics against adversaries who really ARE a threat to their min/max abilities against those lacking defenses against the NND and Ego Attack.

Lord, I hope not! The character is designed as an example of how "Active Point Limits" are no substitute for actually looking at the character and considering whether the combinations come up to a rational result.

Isn't that fun? It seems the only email our office SPAM filter DOESN'T detect is actual spam!

Maybe not utterly useless, but good luck building the sales... The Ultimate Index - indexes every Hero product ever produced! [better make it an ebook so it can be updated with each new product published ] Think about it, Steve...even if almost no one buys (subscribes), you can give it away to guys like me and avoid having to tell us page references on the System Questions board!

Just for completeness, since I now have my books: 20 Ego - 20 points Mind Scan: 1d6, Cumulative (+1/2), x16 maximum [96 points of effect] (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Penetrating twice (+1), Invisible source and effects (+1) - 30 points Mind Control, Telepathy and Mental Illusions just like the Mind Scan - 90 more points +20 OCV Mind Scan - 40 points That leaves 170 points on a 350 point character. Hmmm... Boost speed's an obvious one. Maybe some Teleportation in case he ever has to make a run for it. Perhaps some Followers. Some Mental Defense for certain (or maybe a mental damage aura) Lots of possibilities...Maybe he's only a 200 point character. Anyway, at the base, he can readily lock on to virtually any mind (EOCV 7 to mind scan the whole planet), and then attack with any or all of his three other powers [no framework - costs more points, but he can use his three mental attacks as a Multiple Power Attack]. 96 points of effect will ultimately claw up to Ego +56 on a 30 EGO. And how many people double harden their Mental Defense? And only 30 AP attacks (50 Mind Scan if you add the levels) well within anyone's campaign limits, right?

A lot depends on the nature of the NND. I might be inclined to look at it and ask myself "Self, using common sense, would this attack actually do more damage if more of them were dropped?" If the special effect of the NND is (as two from my campaign have been) a wide cloud of knockout gas, I am inclined to think the added volume would fill more hexes, not enhance damage. He still only breathes so fast! Alternatively, perhaps it would simply mean that cloud stays around longer (one of the ones in my campaign had continuing charges). If it is filing the area full of Meson Beams firing in all directions, perhaps it is not possible for the area to be "fuller" of Meson Beams, for the same effect. Or perhaps I just say "I knew this possibility existed when I allowed the power. Live with it." or "WOW! Maybe future villains shouldn't leave themselves so open to such an easy tactic." Again, it comes back to seeing it in a game before I start losing sleep over it. Finally, perhaps I am just lucky in this, but my players are role playing, not min/.maxing combat abilities. They are pretty quick to spot something in even their own abilities which may be, or appears to have become, excessive, and we discuss ways to fix that. They also are very quick to change their characters, or develop them in different directions, if one is steping on another's toes. As a result, problems like this have not been a hallmark of my games, and I don't worry about them until or unless they happen.

I won't reprint the entire post, as I don't really have anything to add. Well said! And thanks to Zornwil and Taximan for their kind words as well.

As noted previously, he's not goint to attack a mentalist - he'll mind control others into dealing with mentalists. With a 20 EGO, he's not optimized for dealing with a mentalist - pretty much any Mental Defense would make him ineffectual. [Allegations that MindMan has telepathically stolen defense secrets and sold them to terrorist organizations shocked the nation today. The President today ordered the Joint Chiefs to bring in MindMan dead or alive, under charges of high treason.] Mind you, the option is tempting - how much would his enemies pay to have MindMan waste a phase and go to 1/2 DCV...So I'm knocked out in the process - my bed's pretty comfy anyway! Or I could spend all those leftover points on a swack of Mental Defense, I suppose. Sticking, of course, to the campaign maximum. And cumulative doesn't cap out IIRC (don't have the book in front of me, but I seem to recall the example being a 2d6 mind control or some such). One further thought: No, I wouldn't approve this character in my campaign. He's not four colour enough, even getting over his ability to ruin your life anonymously from half a world away.

The fact it isn't happening in games indicates the power level you perceive isn't there, or that everyone has banned the tactic. I see no real evidence of the latter other than Zornwil's comment. Your analysis focuses in on the damage potential without considering the drawbacks. I'm not sure where you perceive yourself being attacked, by the way. Your posts read like "anyone who disagrees with me must be an idiot", so I don't see you having much basis for complaining about comments made by others anyway. Very creative of you. What else should we ban because it's potentially abusive?

Seems to me we're just going around in circles here so, unless I see something new, I'm chalking this up to "You see it your way and I see it my way" after these posts. Thank you to all who have chimed in so far with their comments. Maybe the better answer is to just ban NND's. They seem to be causing the problem. You've indicated you see no problem with Rapid Fire on normal attacks. There isn't. And it would be unbalancing. Perhaps Steve and the boys at Hero did some playtesting with the maneuvers before unleashing 5e, hence we get the modified haymaker and some new ptional maneuvers. [i do agree with Zornwil, BTW, that Rapid Fire isn't a great fit with the superhero genre, which is the main reason I would carefull;y consider any character planning to use this frequently.] To reiterate, you Rapid Fire your NND attack, using your whole phase and halving your DCV. Your opponent Dives for Cover, because he was expecting that. He does not get hit. He has taken no damage. His teammates then use yur tactic of waiting to the very end of the segment, then Rapid Fire to take you down. Or they just all coordinate on you since your SCV is halved. You're out of the fight, and they, as a group, lost 1 phase. If we banned everything you've complained about as potentially unbalanced on these boards, I wonder what would be left. Net effect is "take 35 Stun" or "take 56 Stun". To be materially different, the character being hit needs a 35+ CON and, of course, more than 35 STUN. That's not the average in my games. YOU - every time anyone points out the drawbacks of Rapid Fire! What teamates? Are they all standing outside the area of effect, or do they all have the defense against your NND? If they do, why is it surprising of the villains do as well?

re Barry Allen Flash Put enough Megascale on your base 6" of running, and attaining Lightspeed is pretty easy. Let's assume he's got +40" at 0 END for combat (60 puoints). Put that in a multipower with Megascale on normal (6") running, and he can have a +10 naked advantage. That makes each inch 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 km. Fast enough for you? Maybe we should add Megascale on sight so he can see where he's going. Now he can get about 8 levels of Megascale (+2 advantage) for 62 points, so we'll need another couple points in the MP base. Each inch is now only 10,000,000 km. Assuming a 6 Speed (and he certainly doesn't have less than that), he runs at 18,000,000,000 KPH. Every added +1/4 megascale provides a 10x increment. A 12 speed only doubles it. I don't recall him doing a lot at those speeds, except when DC would go over the topn and have him fight another speedster at those velocities. Even then, if he moves faster than sound, he would create a sonic boom (he did that once or twice in the books; probably went desolid at those speeds if he wanted to avoid it). Thinking speed and reaction time does imply a higher SPD to me. I would put him in the upper echelons, in any case. But the point his abilities can be simulated in ways other than a 12 Speed is valid.

Let's make it fit campaign limits. We'll drop his ego to 20 (though lots of egoists have much higher, a 7 OCV should be quite adequate). That's 20 points. We'll make the Mind Scan 4d6 Cumulative (+1/2), Invisible (+1/4) 0 END (+1/2) - that's another 45 points. Is that within your campaign limits, Gary? Must be - a 60 point Ego Blast was OK. I'll buy +20 with the targetting roll - most GM's don't factor skill levels into campaign limits, remember? That's 40 points (really should be 30 - I'm just offsetting a penalty to my OCV, aren't I?) If you want to be uinreasonable and disallow it, I'll use the points for a base so I can wait for a news broadcast to better pinpoint my target. So let's just follow that process - he can have 4d6 Mind Control, Mental Illusions and Telepathy, all with the same advantages. I could put them in a multipower and add in a 4 1/2 d6 Ego Blast. Or I can just buy all four powers for 45 each. That's 285 points spent - way less if I use the multipower. No attack power has more than 45 points - well within campaign limits. So I guess I can run him, huh Gary? Tell you what - I'll take a -1/4 on all my powers that they "cannot rapid attack". See - I've eliminated the biggest poroblem with egoists!

The question, which you have declined to answer, is, as a GM, do you adjust your scenarios and villains to take into account the abilities of your player characters? He can spread more on his next attack, when his opponent(s) can change their tactics. He's lost out on this attack. And spent lots of END, likely for sub-optimal results. That risk is why rapid fire tends not to be used to the extent you expect it to be. Transform is commonly a one shot KO. Shall we ban it as well - especially "all or nothing" transforms, which need to be one shot KO's to be effective at all? No. Neither does Rapid Fire. It effectively converts it to a 90 AP attack (Autofire, 4-5 shots). You get to roll your normal to hit instead of an extra hit for every 2 you make the roll by, and you lose your other half phase, OCV per attack and half your DCV. I'm disinclined to restrict it until I see - in actual play - that these drawbacks are inadequate and the maneuver is actually unbalanced. I DON"T HAVE CAMPAIGN LIMITS!!! How many times do I have to say that, Gary? I look to the reasonableness of the character AS A WHOLE. If a character has 4 less OCV and half the DCV of the campaign norm, and he has an attack which requires a full phase, and that attack exceeds the campaign norms, I'm going to look at the balance of the WHOLE CHARACTER and ask whether his weaknesses in OCV, DCV and moving offset his extra offensive power. I have news for you - if you just stand there delaying for the entire fight, I suspect you won't win either. "Villain 1: Oh no! It's MightyMan and his Amazing Friends! What will we do??" "Villain 2: You two stay here and stare at them so they won't move. I'll go finish what we came here to do." "Villain 3: Why not? It worked last time!" Now, since we're all scared to take an action since someone else might clip us, Villain 2 moves away while Villains 1 and 3 stand around looking menacing. Since whoever goes first loses, that's a big win for the villains. Of course, the authorities can build a prison around them while they stand there staring at each other!

Yet we have not one single example of it actually being abused in play. Not one! Presumably, no one but Gary is smart enough to see this gaping flaw in the rules. Has everyone else banned this maneuver from their games? Nor has Gary yet suggested a fix that rebalances things (ie equalizes Rapid Fire, Autofire and normal attacks). But keep ranting away, Gary!

Do you run a lot of villains with 2x Stun from electricty against a group that includes an Electrical character? You need to assess how the dynamic will work. If he's vulnerable to electricity and it's fairly obvious, he's gonna get one punched by Electric Man. Shifting from 1 level in OCV to Dodge + 1 level in DCV is a four point shift, and pretty much anyone can do that. Martial Dodge, more levels, etc. add to it. Missile deflection (or better yet, reflection to hit any target) could be a real surprise, though not common. If every villain sees the news and determines Meson Man alsays cold cocks everyone without a Field, how long will it be before some entrpreneurial superscientist is selling force field belts? Meson Suppresors are good too, but they cost too much! Lots of maneuvers are powerful. Do you look for EGO defense on every villain's character sheet if there is no mentalist in the group? Do you start looking if one has heavy Mind Control? So far, we have no one saying it's an ACTUAL problem, just you touting the problem in theory. No, I expect them to make reasonable characters. If I'm running a campaign where the average damage was to be 10d6, and everyone shows up with 15d6 powerhouses, the villains need to be upraded to be competetive. By your logic, no one would ever attack before the end of their phase - otherwise, how can they abort to Dodge and shift their levels before they are counteratacked? Rapid Fire isn't the only reason to do this, yet how often does it happen? Not looking for "would in theory". Looking for "has in practice". Egoists should be outlawed under your "it could be abused" theory. You have 350 points. Put 40 in Ego. You now have a 30 ECV. Put 150 in Mind Scan (say 18d6 and +20 roll). That leaves 160 for a multipower of mental attacks to use through your mind scan. Make them all Invisible so you can't be traced. Let's make them 16 DC (100 points as they're fully invisible). You can have six slots. Ego Blast, Mind Control, Mental Illusions and Telepathy cover four. Let's make the fifth Area Effect Ego Blast (5 1/2 d6 isn't so bad) and the last can be whatever oddball you want - maybe Mental Transform? So I can attack anyone from anywhere in the world and they can't find me. Menton's invulnerable, I suppose, but we can control everyone around him. And wait 'til you see my sheet when I have 1,000 xp! Legal? Sure, I guess. Alowed in my campaign? Clearly not. Have I had problems with mentalists? No, not really - the players have always stayed pretty reasonable.