Sean Waters

Re: Penetrating Killing/BOD Attacks

Re: Penetrating Killing/BOD Attacks So you've got 15rPD/25PD and you roll 4 (ap) and a 6 (non ap). Good roll!. The stun multiple is a standard 3. What damage do you take?

Re: Shapeshifting Touch something. Close your eyes and touch something. What can you feel? You can feel the shape, the texture, hardness, the temperature and any movement or vibration. If you pick it up you get a feel for the weight, although that is also a function of muscle feedback (does that come under the touch sense group or something else?). The problem with shape shift being based on senses is that HERO doesn't have enough granularity in sense mechanisms. It is far better than most, which more often than not ignore senses almost entirely, but it doesn't have enough. If you could shape shift against touch into a giant baseball bat (so we don't need shrinking), someone just using touch should feel a rigid smooth item of a familiar (although very large) shape and temperature. It is still. Now look at the shape shifted baseball bat. Shape shift against sight was not bought, so you look at it, and your sight group linked IR detection sees that it is warmer than you thought - it apparently has two different temperatures. Moreover, it doesn't look like a baseball bat...it has hands and a face and is clearly covered in skin and hair. What shape does it appear to be? Presumably human shaped. If it was otherwise, i.e. it appeared very tall and thin then it could use that to hide behind lamp posts, and we didn't pay the points for that. The texture looks wrong and the colour is all off. If you listen you hear a heartbeat...which is not possible because the sound would be transmitted through the flesh as vibration, and our touch sense already knows that the thing is not vibrating. OK scrap that and let's look at sight, so to speak. You see the overall shape and colour. Colour is important. If someone with shape shift (sight group only AND imitation) doesn't actually change shape but does change colour to match the background they become effectively invisible...but we can't do that as Invisibility is already used for chameleon powers, but they've got to be able to do it: if you can shape shift to appear to the sight group to be a wall then that includes apparent colour and texture, not just overall shape. Each individual sense contains a lot of different ways of perceiving the environment and they often overlap (heat, vibration, as above). The senses work together to form an overall picture of the world. The system does not (and should not) define senses closely enough to account for the breadth of sensing ability of individual senses, or the overlap, so having a power like shape shift based on altered perceptions is always going to cause an enormous amount of confusion, even when we have been playing this version for 10 years. If a power is this confusing to understand and impliment then I think there must be something wrong with it. If you don't believe me, look how long this thread is. If you can change shape, actually change shape, it HAS to affect every sense OR PART OF A SENSE that detects reflected energy or actual mass. I can't even begin to imagine how to build that. Try it. I bet I (or someone with more imagination) can think of a sense that SHOULD detect shape that you've missed. Even if you get them all, all it takes is someone to buy spacial awareness and plonk it in an unusual sense gruop, and you've missed it. It really shouldn't be that difficult (or expensive) to build a power that is really quite simple in concept.

Re: Penetrating Killing/BOD Attacks Here's one I wouldn't be able to get my head round: a 10d6 EB with, say, 6 of the dice armour piercing. How would you apply that and stay sane? BTW hardened defences used to stop teleport in 4th ed. Am I right in thinking this is no longer the case?

Re: Did you kill Malone? If A assaults B but leaves no mark, and there are no witnesses, the evidence would come from the complaint and testimony of B. You'd get a Government stooge mind reader to mind read the illegal mind reader AND complainant and have a law to say that if they are not let in, they are assumed to be guilty. Don't forget the 'victim' will know who read them unless the power has fully invisible effects or +20 on the level of effect. You could also rule that any mind affecting power leaves some sort of detectable trace, possibly even a signature, to a sufficiently skilled mind cop.

Sorry, I was not being clear with the problem: I was concerned that FRED 204 says specifically: Characters cannot combine two or more powers from the same EC into a Multiple-Power attack...without GM permission. The answer in the FAQ says that it is OK to do so for two Damage Shield powers in the same EC:

I hope I'm misreading FRED p. 203 ECs: ...To buy an advantage for a power in an EC, calculate the advantage based on the active points in the entire power, then subtract the cost of the base pool... This (and the example that follows) seem to suggest that advantages don't (or can't) be paid for in the EC pool, for example: Is this a legal build... 30 Ice EC: 30 Slot 1: 12/12 Force wall 30 Slot 2: Ice spikes: 8d8 armour piercing EB Total 90 ...or should it be bought this way becasue the active point cost of the EB is 40, and then you buy the advantage 'on top': 20 Ice EC: 40 Slot 1: 12/12 Force wall 40 Slot 2: 8d8 EB AP for Armour piercing Total 100

From the FAQ Q: If for some reason a character had two slots in an Elemental Control that were both Damage Shields, could he use them both at the same time against the same target who touched him, or whom he Grabbed? A: Yes. Doesn't this violate the 'only one attack power in an EC at a time' rule?

Re: Did you kill Malone? This is the problem with applying the real world to the game world, I suppose, and being a bit lawerly I tend to. It is perfectly valid to rule that in your world telepathy evidence is never admissible for evidence, warrants or anything. It is also perfectly fine to rule that uninvited mind reading is an offence...but then you'll be making your telepath PCs into criminals. In 'the real world' if telepaths existed (who says they don't?) Governments and Industry would ensure that they were regulated or criminalised, you can be sure of that.

Re: Penetrating Killing/BOD Attacks I'm not very bright so perhaps you can explain the difference: Say a 50 point AP attack hits the armour. With 10pd on the outside, only 45 gets through to the armour underneath and this stops 20 more, so 25 get through. The other way around, the 20 hardened mean that only 30 get through and the 10 non-hardenned stop another 5, so 25 get through. Same result, n'est pas? With odd numbers it might make a point or two difference or roundings, but that would be all.

Re: Transform reversal & size Well, assuming the frog couldn't get out, 2, and the same with the shrinker. If you'd wanted to you could have stepped on the frog and killed it anyway, but you are discouraged to the point of being forbidden to use transform as a cheap AVLD killing attack. I'd suggest 1d6 normal damage on segment 1 to both character and container, then 2d6 the next segment, 4dd, 8d6, 16d6, and if you still need it, 32d6...and so on until character squishes or container bursts. There's probably a better way. You could use the mis-teleport damage table if you like.

Re: Did you kill Malone? What has subtle got to do with it? I pretend to no great thought in this over what I say above: if you can do this, telepathy is too easy to use/too powerful and we either need to think of reasons why this wouldn't work or change the rules. My suggestion is posted in this thread. What is yours?

Re: Have you ever taken a fall? I love MC I just think it is hard to run fairly and consistently because you are making judgement calls all the time. What level MC do you need? How is the command interpretted? I also think that it is one of those powers that can utterly devastating to a game in a way that an EB rarely is. If you set a precedent of being too generous to your players it is really going to glare when you have to fluff things to stop them short circuiting the whole scenario, and I like to think I am consistent and fair - players are encouraged to try and circumvent villain commands by quick thinking and role playing. If a thick brick is MC'd, he won't think his way out of the box, but if an INT 30 gadgetess is MC'd you can be sure she'll be thinking of ways around what she's made to do. Think of the player/GM as the subconscious of the controlled character: they don't like being controlled and are looking for a way out. They can't actually disobey, but if they can legitimately interpret a command in a way favourable to them they will. It is only misinterpretting from the point of view of the controller. Victims have rights too.

Re: Shapeshifting I really should get more sleep but these discussion boards... Friends again,then?

Re: Activation and RSR I like this idea too, well done. It will mean powerful Magi can keep lots of effects going at once, whereas Newbies can match any of the effects, but only one or two at a time. Far too easily abused for most superheroic games though...it would only work where all 'powers' have to be bought RSR for the same skill.

Re: Activation and RSR

Re: Shapeshifting Interesting attitude. Most constructive. You've completely convinced me. I mean I balked at some of the personal insults there, but now I see that it was just done to make me a better person. Hopefully one day everyone who plays HERO will agree, and that day will last a thousand years.

Re: Have you ever taken a fall? Please tell me that none of you seriously think I require a 3 page contract for a mentalist to get someone's name out of them. Please? I'm just saying that I don't think that 'well I paid points for that mind control' is any excuse for sloppy gaming. You paper over the cracks in your player's tactics and they never learn. I mean if they decide to do a move through on a villain standing against an armoured wall do you tell them or let them make the mistake and learn from it? Tough love. Examples,please:

Re: Drinking contest At a rough guess... Drinking Cumulative 1/2 d6 NND (defence is a CON roll -1 per unit of alcohol or alcohol immunity) major transform to beer monster heals at 2 points per hour That should account for CON and BODY, and making out the effects of DEX/INT drain, and the various psychological limitations of drunkenness is a nightmare, so even though it is a bit twinky, transform is the way to go.

Re: Drinking contest What we need to do is some research...

Re: Have you ever taken a fall? Now I didn't say that!

Re: Shapeshifting

Re: Have you ever taken a fall? Blimey. Don't feel like defending my relationship with my gaming group but suffice to say we've been together since 1984 and still meet regularly even though we live in different parts of the country. I could get touchy if you carry on like that. Did you read the anecdote I posted earlier in this thread? It was about a player in a game I was running subverting 'my' villain's MC in a possibly questionable but definitely heroic fashion. Mind Control is a judgement call power in any event. I am perfectly happy to reward a well though out use of it and punish a stupid one and expect the same courtesy from those I play with. You can go with intent if you like, but you'll be missing a lot of beautiful scenery. If that is gimping it, hand me the gimp mask.

Re: Have you ever taken a fall?

Re: Shapeshifting By Thunder, I've just realised that is pretty much how 4th edition did shapeshift! (irony)