Tasha

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far You are probably right. I just divided them that way to help make my point.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far IIRC the Forums were quite negative on those changes (and still are for the most part) It just happened after the rules were published. Though Aid's cost being doubled was actually liked, because Aid was a bit out of control in 4th ed.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far If folk have a ton of Hunted I do my best to try to link as many hunteds together so they are more managable. Either by having them in an Organization or by being divisions of the same organization. Whatever it takes. Also, I rarely have more than an 8- Hunter my Watcheds can be higher as those are just keeping track of the character until they do something wrong.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I would imagine he takes the "frequency rolls' as a guideline as to how often that hunted/watched complicates the PC's life.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I'll probably do a short story Champions game to test the new rules. Then I'll probably convert my Urban Fantasy game to the new system to try it out in a normals game. That's usually how we playtest a new system Tasha

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far This I also can't understand much. Secondary Characteristics are staying, they are just losing their links to the Primary Characteristics. Point values are being increased to make up for the loss of that linkage. So I see it as a basic net neutral. The only "bad" part of the whole thing is that noobs will have to know what is a good minimum for both Rec, Stun and End. PD, ED and SPD are usually bought up anyways. As are all of the CV values. So our Char lineup will be Str, Dex, Con, Body, Int, Ego, Pre. Then Secondaries as OCV, DCV, OECV, DECV, PD, ED, SPD, REC, END, STUN. They are all going to be there. Just no one but Steve and the Mysterioius Council currently knows how much everything is going to cost. It may be that cost changes (not announced yet AFAIK) in the Primaries will make up for the loss of Secondary Chars being Figured from the Primary Chars. We will have to wait for GenCon to know for sure. I am ambivalent to this change, but my GF who is a Hero Neophyte thinks the change is positive and less messy than the old system. Tasha

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I purchased 5th because of all of the talk about Steve's work at cleaning up the rules. I was also pretty impressed that Steve had come up with so many explanations for the various powers that they had to edit out a bunch of it to keep page count reasonable. I had been Quite impressed with is work on Dark Champions and Justice not Law. So I knew that this edition would be a good one. I was annoyed with a couple of changed ie Regen, Instant Change and one other. For the most part I felt that the changes were for the better. I was disappointed that Creation Workshop was being abandoned esp as that software printed out Beautiful Character sheets (something that Hero Designer still has problems with). I do have to say that barring some interface quirks Hero Designer is easier to use over all. As for 5th edition I was quite happy that recommended point values for Supers was being raised to 350 pts seeing as my group was nearly at that point level any ways. The rules were written well enough that they solved many issues that caused arguments I have to admit, I am always intrigued by the newest flavor in town. So I will buy this edition and unless it is completely unplayable, I'll buy all of it's suppliments in including sourcebooks that I have like 4 different editions of (ie Champions and Fantasy Hero). That's they way I am

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Actually those tend to be the best kind of games. As long as there are occasionally Villains to beat up, I would be content

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Well there are levels of Ambidexterity. Not every person who is ambi is completely ambi. So if it's just flavor then just spend the minimum on it. If they have 2 weapons and 2 weapon fighting and the other talents taht make it work. Then 9pts is about right I like finding those last 25 pts. It really makes me delve into their history and psychology. Sometimes what I have to add gives something very important to the character's background, another hook. Which is never a bad thing. Also Remember they are now going to be "complications" they don't have to cripple the character to be valid.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Granted. Though sometimes GM's need to take a look at their assumptions about their game and see if perhaps they aren't being too restrictive. New players sometimes can be a catalyst for change that your players secretly want, but don't want ot mention because it might hurt your feelings or they are sick of arguing with you about said changes.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far The issue with that system is that super ugly people can cause fear or at least be unsettling, and should get a BONUS to their interaction rolls in certain cirumstances.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Hell, I can't even get most GM's to follow the PUBLISHED XP guildlines as they are now. XP should be rewarded 1 for the PC's being in the adventure. +1 exp for every session beyond the first one that the PCs attend. Then there are bonuses for Role playing +1, and for having a successful adventure +1 So at the minimum MOST good RPing players should get 2-3 XP per session with bonuses to that number if the adventure runs longer. I say this because. 1) MOST players do a decent job of RPing their Characters. 2) MOST adventures have the Players either solving a mystery or the adventure is a resounding (they had fun) If you are stingy about XP then the Players start to feel constrained by a never changing character. New skills/powers/Talent become forever out of reach. Some of your players may start to do major rewrites every few months to incorporate changes and the miniscule XP rewards into their character. Basically IMHO Players having fun should be rewarded. Though I think that many Hero GM's are secretly afraid of dealing with escalation of power levels. So they don't properly reward their characters.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I actually feel that the rule is a bit buried and many old school Hero GM's either aren't aware of the rule, or skimmed it and it hasn't filtered through their consciousness during a game. I am mostly trying to point out how the new rule can not only fill in for said missing Stat, but how the Talent could possibly be a better mechanic than the one that is there. Also I find that many GM's esp Male GM's are very reluctant to deal with anything that touches on physical attraction and those kind of relationships. With that I haven't seen much use of the Seduction skill. So in most games I have been in COM is seen as "Ok you have an 18com. Ok, yeah, whatever". So a mechanic that spelled out that a Character has +whatever vs Interaction skills vs folk that find the person with said talent cute, beautiful, ugly, whatever, would be a nice change. Something that is explicit on the Character sheet in that way is easier. Also I am thinking that the Talent might clean up the ugliness mechanic as well. Most of the posts I am seeing on this is all 'sky is falling down' kind of hysteria. No one is really taking a close look at this beyond the fact that Hero is removing a favorite mechanic. No one seems to be looking at how they could make this work in their game. Anyone who does is attacked again and again. Tasha All I care about is that the Mechanics work out so my game play works out as well as it did before. So I probably wouldn't have complained about KA's Stun mults being nerfed too hard, if it didn't look like the new numbers weren't going to mess up every non-champions game that I either run or participate in.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Ok that was a bit uncalled for. I have never said that you were stupid or incompetent. Thanks for assuming that I am too stupid to play with the big boys. Com had really no mechanic behind it in Champions 2nd edition. The first time I saw any inkling of a mechanic behind COM was the vague passage for the seduction skill in 1st Edition Justice Inc of "A Comeliness Roll may be considered complementary to this skill". This has been the only real use for the stat till 5th edition which mentions that it may be used in certain circumstances with Presence based skills. In 5th Ed Rev, it says "COM rolls are sometimes used as complementary Rolls to some Interaction Skills in situations where a character's appearance (good or bad) might influence what happens. Still kind of vague, but worded better. I really don't care if COM is removed or not. I am totally ambivalent to what happens to it. I have been using my brain to imagine how this new talent would work and how it might be structured. Also I have been imagine how such a mechanic could work to make for a better system than what was there. I guess I see the removal of COM as a VERY minor thing compared to some of the major changes that the OP listed. Tasha

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Also I know that that isn't worded correctly and doesn't take into account aesthetics, cuteness or other things that could be percieved as appealing. Of course the Talent is named Striking Appearance so it seems like you could do a lot of things with it. From Uglyness, to aesthetic appealing, to Cuteness to out and out sex appeal. Sounds like there is a lot of room for customization. But I am a lowly poster just trying to imagine what Steve will come up with. The actually book may and probably will vary. Tasha

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far It won't be because Talents are built with powers and Skills. So there will be a built in mechanic in the talent that wasn't in the Stat. As I said earlier I imagine that it will be purchased as +1 with all Pre Skills (5) (+1 limit) only vs targets that that are attracted sexually to the PC which should come out to 3 pts or 5pts for +2 to the Roll. If the Character is unusually ugly then the points are the same but the levels can be only used to cause fear See simple tasha

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I don't hate COM. I just welcome any mechanic that ties beauty into interaction skills closely and in a way that an overworked GM won't handwave away as being too much work or too much to think about.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far BTW just because things are going to be measured in Meters and not hexes doesn't mean that support for miniatures will be lacking. Hell Hero did this SAME thing with Fuzion and those rules had the same robust rules for minis that the Core Hero rules did.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Great that works for Champions, but I play in a two cinematic type Normals game. One a D&D clone will become much more deadly for both PCs and NPCs. Not what we wanted when we converted over from dnd4th. The other one is a Serenity StarHero Clone and yeah people take body in that universe, but for the most part it isn't about generating body count. All of these kind of games will be turned on their heads by the new KA rules. You, know Fuzion changed things majorly and managed to Keep some of the feel of Hero Combat with Weapons. This totally hoses that feel.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far My prediction is that most people will be saying that they bought 4 levels with Striking Appearance - Beauty. Most folk won't even know that there was ever a Com score or even care.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far 5e Regen is clunky and requires an exception to the Healing rules to work. 4e Regen was much more elegant and didn't require me to open the rule book to find out what advantages, and limitations to apply to healing to make regen. That's why most folk consider it broken.