Markdoc

Oldguy has a point, but I have found no real alternative to handwaving it. A 2d6 great axe could be expected to go through an oaken door right smartish, but a 2d6 sword will likely embed itself in the door and then have to be *carefully* wiggled free (a process likely to take several turns) or it'll go "kwa-PEENG" and you'll be left holding the stump of a sword. Swords are fragile, remember! A 2d6 RKA morning star will take ages to batter down the door, if it does anything more than scar the surface up, while imagine trying to destroy a door with a 2d6 RKA pike (poke, poke, poke, poke .... repeat 60 times). The GM has to use common sense. Cheers, Mark

If you choose to target one power at a time, you have to choose what power, as pointed out. So if Mage #1 throws his lightning bolt (RKA + flash vs sight and hearing) you can choose to be burned or deaf, but you can't avoid both powers. Worse, if his apprentice then throws an entangle on the same phase, well, you're going to be tied up for a while... I'd go for the +2 "all powers of a special effect" - especially since it's a GM's magical guffing built out his limitless pool of XP.s :-)

Here’s my take n this: Armor: Drain 10d6: Magic, Area Of Effect (explosive; +1/2), 1 recoverable charge lasting one year (+1 1/2), Expanded Effect (All Powers Simultaneously; +2) (400 Active Points); Independent (-2), Focus: expendable, difficult/dangerous to recover, OIF (-1 1/2), Always On (-1/2), Real armour (-1/4) Real cost: 76 active points!!! EEK! You can see why there are not a lot of these around! Here’s the rationale for the changes. I have swapped out Dispel for Drain. This is because a 12 d6 dispel will generate approximately 42 active points of dispel – in short, it will normally bounce an 8 DC attack, but a 9 DC attack will fry ya most of the time and a 10DC attack will fry ya 99% of the time. If this is going to be a major magical mcguffin, something that won’t stop a 6d6 Explosive EB (AKA basic fireball spell) doesn’t sound so impressive. With Drain, you reduce the power of incoming magic by approx 35 points – so many spells will have some effect - but a greatly weakened one. For example a 3d6 RKA lightning bolt which would normally be a real threat, would suddenly become a 1/2 d6 attack that will probably just bounce off the player’s mundane defences! Not only that but spells with persistent effects – even really big ones – will be severely weakened if the armour is around them for very long. Just the thing for smashing ancient wards, releasing unnameable evils and that sort of thing…. I changed area effect 1 hex to area effect explosive. It costs the same and gives the guy in the middle the same protection, but if you can’t use your own magic while this thing is on, then you might as well hurt your opponent’s power at the same time, yes? I changed the reduced END to 1 continuing charge for two reasons. The first is, the persistant power needs to be made continuous if it is to counter multiple incoming attacks, without attention from the player – otherwise, all you have is one really long lasting dispel, increasing the cost somewhat. Continuing charges however stay around in the affected area between phases and are assumed to affect everyone in the area – and it’s marginally cheaper. Reason 2 is more evil – if the players run off with the device, after a period of time (depending on when it was last charged, which is up to the GM) it stops working! It requires something expendable, difficult and dangerous to get it going again – I suggest putting a little locket on the front which needs to be refilled with ashes from a lich’s corpse or something similar. That way the GM can remove the item from play if it is wreaking havoc with the game. Alternatively if the players run off with the item, and you want to let them keep it, the charge makes a nice plot hook to get them moving – when the item runs out of power, they’ll probably want another charge…. Finally, I removed the STR min and STR does not add limitations, as being inappropriate – STR doesn’t add to either dispel or drain. If you want to make the armour really heavy and difficult to wear, make it a bulky focus for a further –1/2. Personally I wouldn’t bother – it’s enough of a mixed blessing as it is. As for the adventure thread, two possibilities spring to mind. The first is simply that the mages have hidden it away as suggested – you certainly wouldn’t want someone turning up in this thing if you were a magic user – and are moving it to a more secure hiding place. Obviously, it’s a very valuable item, so it’s not like they are going to throw it in the ocean. The other option is that they want to use it. Unlike dispel, drain has a lasting effect – so you could sit this item in the vicinity of a ward you cannot break, or a monster you want to smear, drain it down – and then move the armour away, so that you can get to work with your own powers, while the opponent’s powers are diminished. This has the added appeal that the mages will be wanting some tough adventuring types to carry the armour – after all, they won’t want the job, and they cannot use magic to transport it…. cheers, Mark

>>>as for house rules that are hated, hey, the idea is for everyone to have fun, right? Otherwise, why p;ay? I'd never tyr and force my players to put up with something they totally hated. Sure I'd try and convince them, but if I couldn't, well, toss it!<<< Exactly! My experience (and it's pretty damn extensive on this subject) has been that players in general like a simple randomised SPD chart, since it reduces the strain on their brains. BUT! Not everyone does. If I had players who hated it, I'd switch back. So far I have introduced 4 groups (as GM) to the system I use. The reaction has been: Group 1 (all experienced Hero system roleplayers, mostly also GMs): Thank GOD! Took to the new system IMMEDIATELY. Of the three I have kept in touch with, only one still games frequently - he still uses the randomised SPD Chart. Group 2 (amostly experienced gamers, all but one new to Hero system). Tried both systems with them in a couple of short games to get them used to the rules. They preferred the random system to the SPD chart, but I think that's just 'co it was easier. Group 3 (all experienced hero players, including one Hero author) One really loved it, one really hated it (the only guy who has, so far: Hi Mike!) and three said they didn't really care. I used it anyway, and after a couple of sessions, never heard any complaints..... Group 4 (Mostly newbies - one has played Hero before) Went straight to the Random system on this one. The newbies could have cared less, the only other Hero gamers (my wife - not Hardcore :-)) commented it was "better than that stupid system where you had to remember what phase it was all the time" Ya can't say "It doesn't work" or "It's worse than the problem it was meant to slove" because I have hundreds of hours of experience and I KNOW it does work. And for me and my players it is better than the standard system. That doesn't mean that everyone should use the same system as I do: It's a house rule and like most of my house rules is a tweak to the game, not a wholesale change. Still, this discussion has had one benefit - I think I'll try switching to numbered cards, instead of a dice. One of the real problems - a little one, but still real - is that using a dice, I can roll several times to get a phase where anyone acts, or I can get a string of phases where everyone acts. Using cards 1-6, when I have a bunch or SPD 4 or less players would ensure exactly the right number of actions for everyone and would save time. the obvious problem is that people could see what has alreday been drawn and calculate what was coming - I'll have to test it to see if that disadvantage outweighs the benefits. cheers, Mark

>>>>1. Remind me why it is bad for the character to succeed?<<<<< That's not the point: as a GM, I have an unlimited universe of player-hurting tools were I to want them. I WANT the players to be heroic. >>>2. Why do your players know what their opponent's SPD is?<<< 'cos they can read. :-) Seriously, if they leap on a a villian, and he goes on 3, they automatically think "Min SPD4". Using the standard SPD chart he might be 5, or 6 and trying to lull them into a false sense of security, but it doesn't take long to work out. >>>>3. If there is such a big difference between SPD 3 and 4, throw some SPD 4 villians at your players. It is not like the GM is limited to character points.<<<< Done that - but again, getting the drop on the players is not the point. The point is a) to make life simpler for the GM - to get away from the "Umm, it's phase 9 - who goes now? No, Grymm, you aborted on 7, didn't you? Oh wait, I forgot, Thorgall hasn't gone on 8 yet, and by the way, those archers who were delayed, did they shoot, already?" and to avoid the "I'll save my action until 7, 'cos nobody goes then, so I can sweep with all my levels on OCV. Then on 8, I go before them, so I'll switch all my levels to DCV and dodge. On 12 I'll delay again, so if they attack I can dodge, but if they don't attack, then I'll delay until 1 so I can sweep again. I'm going to get a soda now, here's my damage and attack rolls - let me know how it went while I was away" In other words, my goal was to keep the LEVEL of threat the same, but get the players more involved - to make combat more a reactive thing than a carefully plotted-out-in-advance series of moves. For what it's worth, that seems to have worked. By making things more chaotic, lower points characters SEEM more of a threat than they really are, because you can't always assume you'll beat them to the draw,

I have taken two different approaches to thsi problem. The first is the "simple solution" - casting magic requires some hard to replace material. In my standard fantasy game this is "mana" which is generated by living things: in Game terms, BOD. The magic user either has to have a living sacrifice to hand, or draw on his own life force. There are a variety of ways around this (Drains, buying extra Bod, Storing BOD in magical vessels etc, but all of them have limitations of one kind or another) and have successfully restricted the frequency of magic use. it is still incredibly useful, but the focus of magic use has shifted away from doing damage. It's much easier to rely on the swordswingers when casting a lightning bolt spell causes the caster 8 BOD damage! On the other hand, casting an invisibility spell or a fly spell at a crucial moment can be worth the hit. What tended to happen was that mages would build up a reserve of BOD and could then cast a lot of small (but very useful) spells, or go for the one big hit with lethal spells (the 6d6 explosive RKA for when that horde was bearing down on you). Mages got multipowers with no upper points limit to compensate, since the system was self-limiting. In a Runequest-inspired game, it was EGO. The more spells you cast, the less EGO you had - and since all spells were BOECV, the less effective your spells were and more susceptible you became to magical counter attack. Both of these approaches reduce the effectivity of mages as mobile weapons platforms, but still allow widespread magic use. The second approach was to stick magic users with a complicated thaumaturgic system, which all but mandated not only extra time - but also the right times - only a fool or a desperate man casts a fireball spell when the moon is in the house of Aquarius (a water sign), or the planet Neptune is ascending - since all spells had side effects. The same system of planetary influences severely curtailed long term spell casting. This not only restricted magic to the role I wanted, but encouraged magic-users to play like "authentic" medieval mages, hoarding elements for spell casting, checking astrological charts. Foci were not required for spells, but having suitable foci gave bonuses to casting. So you don't NEED an arrow fletched with peregrine feathers to cast The Spell of the Shortened Path (20" running @ 0 END) - but it will give you +2 to the roll. Likewise you don't HAVE to cast the spell in the hours that Mercury is ascendant - but you get +2 to the roll if you do.... and so on. The thing is, these suggestions are entirely campaign-specific, and not all all useful for someone who wants a rip-roaring high fantasy game with Dragon-riders, flying castles and players who routinely wield mighty magics. I would guess Steve will include a substantial giudelines section on "How to keep you magic users from getting out of hand" since it is probably the most important part of the whole "how to do magic" chapter. cheers, Mark

>>>>I don't think that you are understanding my objections and cleraly you are not using the same random systems touted on this thread. All of my objections are valid.<<<< Actually you’re right – some of your objections were not clear to me. I am using one of the systems described – No. 2, I think on the original list. >>>>1. Your response to my haymaker argument. Under the random die system If I haymaker in the 6th and then I randomly get to go in the 7th, I burn a phase. I cannot go twice in a phase. It sound like your random sytem does not work this way, but the systems suggested seem to.<<<< OK, this in fact, I didn’t understand, since you stated “You may not use any maneuver…â€. Of course you CAN use such maneuvers, as I pointed out, but you do run the risk of losing an action – just as you can with the normal SPD chart if you delay to a phase before your next – and yes, I’ve seen it happen, including the argument that followed along the lines of “I should get another action! etc etcâ€. >>>2. Regarding knock out. What you propose could work but in this case under your system a person could recover stun and wake up before I get to finish him off or before another stunned character does. Your extra speed is reduced to random chance. You've made Chess into Backgammon.<<< In theory this could happen – although again, this can also happen under the standard SPD chart. The chess versus backgammon analogy is a fair one – it’d be a fool that argued Backgammon was not a game of skill, but there is a large element of chance. As an aside, I prefer Backgammon to Chess. :-) >>>>3. I can't argue about how much time things take. Im talking about a doomsday device counting down from 10 to zero as the characters fight. Too bad you cant save the day becasue you randomly don't have a phase until the 11th and 12th.<<<< I suppose it could happen, although it would be highly unlikely. In my case I ran a time-limited doomsday scenario where the players were battling to get hold of a boat before the wave of toxic volcanic gas washed over them - the random system worked fine and that session is remembered as high point in the game. >>>>4. Uh in this case what palyer would take extra time limitation if he thought he might be standing around with his but hanging out for 4 or 5 segments.<<<< Well, plenty of them have, so I guess this point is moot. YOU might not – but obviously other people have no problem with it, although they cannot be described as Hero novices – some of them are published Hero system authors. There is a RISK of exposure – but then again that’s true using the SPD chart – it’s merely there the risk is 100% defined. >>>>5. You have a good argument regarding the card stacks, but then again This thread has argued metagame from the get-go as the reason to get rid of the speed chart. I am showing you that the solution has another metagame problem, just as big and worse in complication.<<< Absolutely not – the problem is not the existence of a metagame – we acknowledge from the beginning that the whole system is artificial. The problemis the difference between a player thinking “I’m faster than he is. I can take him†and “I’m 25% faster than he is. If I go on the defensive now, in three seconds there will be a window when I can attack without fear of retaliationâ€. In other words, not the existence of a metagame – but metagaming itself. Using a GM’s shield doesn’t fall into that category…. >>>>6. I see your point but you missed mine. You are really randomizing an already dagerous advantage.<<< Ummm. And this makes a difference how, exactly? Well, I can answer that for you, based on years of experience – it doesn’t. Obviously moving from an average of 4 actions per turn from a guaranteed 4 actions per turn will affect continuous. It also affects 0 END, or damage shield and a host of other factors. Since the difference is as often positive as negative, the net effect is big fat zero. >>>>7. Here is why vehicles don't work in this system. Random phases for Four speed car 6,7, 11, 12 Random Phase for Driver 2,3,5,9, and12. OOOPs sorry I cant drive! Had to burn several phases holding to drive and can't control car now. Solution already worse than the problem.<<<< It wasn’t til I got to THIS point that I realized where you were coming from. You have completely misunderstood the way the system works. To make it plain I’ll shout: PHASES ARE NOT DETERMINED RANDOMLY FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL (that would be a complete nightmare for the GM, and the whole point is to make this simpler as well as more fun). They are determined for the game as a whole. So you cannot get a phase where the car acts and the driver does not, unless they have different SPDs – and if they do, this disconnect also happens under the SPD chart. So, as stated, no problem. >>>>8. I dont think you get this one. Falling is segmented and phases would be random. If someone fell you can abort to a dive but make that dex roll! Aborting with a -10 roll Huh!!! See the pattern. Anything segmented is screwed by the proposed systems. If you have this solved please explain, but I bet once again the solution is worse than the problem.<<<< In theory, this could happen, if a) the “catching†character was low SPD and a really unliley series of dice rolls took place. I’ve never seen such a situation, but given the odds of rolling (say) 6 “6â€s on the trot, that’s hardly surprising. >>>>9. Under your random sytem maybe you can abort from the next turn. Under a few determined so far this would mean possibly aborting until as late as the 10th of the next turn if a 3 Speed and going for the first time that turn at their Dex in the 11th!! "I abort my next turn to save the child. Ok on the 2nd the villain finishes you off and then on the third he finishes oiff the normal anyway. Sorry random dice or cards (not heroic!)<<<< See the answer to 7. Can’t happen. If the villain goes on 2, you do too, unless you are SPD1. >>>>>10. I express this as confusion on how the random roll is completed. On the thread some see determined from turn to turn and others from phase to phase. You may not be able to abort if say Under a Presence attack and you hesitate. Then your phase doesnt come up for 5 segemnst and you are the same as cowed by a +10 Presence attack!!! <<< Fair enough, there are quite different systems being discussed here, so some confusion is to be expected – especially if you haven’t been kicking this issue around for a decade, as some of us have :-). I specified in the first post that I used a “dice determines phase†system. If you use a system where everyone’s phases are out of sync, then this could happen – which is why I would not advocate such an approach (a little randomness good – too much randomness bad). >>>>>11. You must know when you have a phase to declare hipshot or hurry. If you hava randomly determined phase, you cannot know ahead of time. Now your system seems to determine before the turn which still works, but others are detremined from segment to segment. In the S2S sytem, these do not work (follow). Under your sytem they would, but. . .<<<< Sure, I’m not arguing that every random system has an equal helping of goodness. What I like about the “dice determines phase†system is that you cannot know when your phase is coming up in advance, though depending on the SPD difference, you can certainly hope to get some “free phasesâ€. That means that the decision to take a snapshot has to be made WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS ITSELF – not planned at headquarters a month earlier. >>>>>>Under a determine at randomly at the start of the turn system, you still have the same metagame of knowing when you go, So this whole rules gyration did nothing except possibly make someone go all at the start of the turn or possibly at the end.<<<<< Agreed, just mushing the phases around and then going in sequence adds little – plus it makes the GM’s job harder – a big minus in my book. >>>>>>My argument is that this randomization adds nothing except plausibly unbalanced combats. As a GM I want to know if a combat sould go the characters way or not. A random Chance that the bad guys get front of the turn loaded phases vs the good guys (potentially all acting late in the turn and only able to abort) is game breaking. You may end up standing there as the bad guy shoots you and stills the loot. Even if you abort, your just more in the phase hole.<<<< Messing phases around randomly between players – I agree. Changing the phases around randomly, changes the picture across the board and does NOT unbalance the game. That’s not speculation, I have run literally hundreds of sessions at a variety of power levels – other GMs use the same system I do and they also have not reported any of these issues you suggest (indeed, some of them cannot occur under any circumstances). To make it clear – here’s what I do. Two PC’s (SPD4) are lying in ambush for 6 city watch (SPD2). When the guards pass them by, they spring out and attack (getting a “free†action since they were prepared and delayed). After that, we go to phases. Since no-one has a SPD higher than 4, I roll a d6 for phases (that will generate some empty phases, in which held actions can be used). I roll a 4. That means SPD 4 and higher go – the PCs get another phase, the guards don’t react (unless they abort). The next phase, I roll again – this time I roll a 5 (empty phase – no-one has a held action, so no-one goes). The third roll is a 1. Everyone has a SPD 1 or higher, so everyone goes – in DEX order – and at the end of the phase everyone gets a post-12 recovery. (Now actually a post-1 :-)). Simple and fast. The players can expect to get roughly twice as many actions as their opponents – they simply cannot predict in what order they will arrive. I have had situations like the above where the players leap into the fray, I roll a bunch of 4’s and the guards all end up dead. That’s counterbalanced by the time I roll all 1’s and the guards put up an unexpectedly fierce resistance. Both events are rare – but neither can be described as unrealistic. The main point for me is a) it is simpler than keeping track of the SPD chart in complicated fights where I might have 20 NPCs with differing SPDs and the players know what they can do and what they can expect – but results are never set 100% in stone. To say this shifts the game entirely to chance is silly – we have andom rolls to hit and for damage. I have certainly played in fights where the mighty fighter could not hit his opponents or put any damage through their 2 DEF armour. I have also played sessions where the mighty fighter was felled by a single lucky shot to the head. But I don’t see anyone proposing a that a sword always does exactly 8 BOD and 20 STUN and that OCV 12 ALWAYS hits DCV 10 and NEVER hits DCV14. A degree of randomness is built into the system, so HERO is not chess – nor would I want it to be.

From the suggestions listed here, few people are suggesting that SPD is not important, or that it shouldn't be. I agree with the post above that a higher SPD character should get an advantage in combat. I don't like the idea that a SPD4 character can square off against a SPD3 and *know* that unless surprised, or trapped under a car, he will always, always, always, always get the first blow AND a chance to abort afterwards. I HAVE martial arts experience - and FITZ who started the thread is a black belt in Aikido. We're both fully aware that faster opponents have an edge and also that you can never be certain of the order in which blows will land. To take specific questions: >>>>1. You may no longer use any maneuver with the takes extra phase element including Haymaker as this is likely to burn a phase.<<<< Umm. No. If you throw a haymaker, it will land at the end of the next segment, just as it currently does, regardless of your SPD. Using a random system merely means you can never be sure your opponent will just stand there docilely waiting for it to land. I rate that a plus. >>>>2. You can randomly screw yourself out of recovering from being stunned or knocked out.<<<<< Again, no. You get your recoveries as and when appropriate. The only difference is that you can't calculate precisley how long you will be out, nor can you plan on getting a recovery every 12 seconds. That means you can't precisely plan you END usage - but again, I like this. Sometimes players and NPCs will run out of steam sooner than they had expected - just like in real life. They'll have to deal with this - just like in real life. >>>>>>3. You cannot accurately simulate a "countdown to doomsday" fight scene.<<<< I have indeed done precisely this with a random SPD system and it worked fine. Time still passes - its just that the number of actions becomes a bit more divorced from the SPD chart (although on average, it is the same). You can't really call this more or less accurate, as both are artificial constructs. Do you really think a 1 phase action (shoot an automatic pistol once) takes exactly the same time as a 1 phase action (run 24 metres)?. Obviously not, but that's how the rules work. >>>4. No power with the takes extra Time could be taken without burning phases in at least some circumstance.<<<< We use this modifier, without problems. The only difference is that you cannot precisely predict *precisely* how many actions someone will get in the intervening time, although you can make a pretty good guess - again, from my point of view, a bonus. >>>>>5. By looking at the card stacks and the dice modifiers the players will be able to tell the speeds of the villains.<<<<< It's a pretty dim player who can't work this out unless the GM is being deliberately tricksy - and in that case do your rolling or cardstacking behind a shield or give your slef some extra cards, which you don't use, just to mess them up. >>>>>6. Continous powers do not mesh with this sytem.<<<< Actually, since continuous powers work on each of your phases, they work exactly as they always have - with the caveat that you cannot say exactly how many actions others will get in those phases - though again, you will have a pretty good idea. >>>>>7. Vehicle movement will not work wth this sytem.<<<<< Umm, why not? We've never had any problems - vehicles have SPD and a move, just like players and work the same way. they are assumed to be moving in between phases, just as players do. I've certainly never assumed a gallopinghorse lunges forward 30 metres in one second then stops stock still for 4 seconds (they'd be hell to stay on, if they did - ptwangggg!) >>>8. Characters may never be able to save falling normals or deal with segmented movements at all.<<<<< Again, not a problem. In the standard system - as in a random one - catching a falling person depends on having a phase to act and enough move. In both cases, as a GM, I'd allow a "dive for cover" style abort for a desperate lunge - but note that can be necessary in both systems. >>>9. You can never abort a phase from the next turn.<<< Umm. Wrong. Aborts are handled exactly as in the standard system - if you abort, you give up your next action. That might be in three seconds or it might be in 6 - but that's how the speed chart system works too. >>>>>10. You do not know when you can abort again as your phase may not come up at your Dex.<<<<< Hmmm. I don't understand this one. Neither your SPD nor your DEX changes. You always act on your DEX, if it is your phase, whether in a randomized system, or the SPD chart. If you have aborted, it is true that in a random system, you can never be 100% sure of when you get a second chance - but that sort of randomness is the point, after all. >>>11. Snapshot, Hipshot, and Hurry no longer work.<<< No again - they all work, as they are designed to allow you to go first, or fire and move. If anything, snapshot becomes MORE important in a random system since it means a higher SPD chracter can no longer stroll languidly out from behind cover and shoot, knowing that he has a phase in hand to load his gun and stroll back into cover before his slower opponents can return fire. I've actually seen exactly this happen - a street samurai (SPD6) with a sword is trapped behind a a burned out truck by a bunch of SPD3 corporate goons, who are crouching behind a low wall (they don't know he's out of ammo). On Phase 2, he swarms across the street (full move), and cuts one of them down on a moveby. He's now standing right next to a swarm of heavily armed goons, in his jeans and T shirt. Suicidal, eh? Well, no, he knows they get to go on 4 *after* he does. So on 4 he runs back behind the truck, by the time their DEX rolls around, he's back in cover. For them to move to where they can see him will also take a full move, so they cannot shoot at him. While I have no objection this in principle (cool move, dude!) I do object to the fact that there was not one faintest bit of risk. He KNEW he would act first and he KNEW he could run away again before they shot. Using my current random system, he would know that he had a very good chance of getting away with it - but it's not written in stone. Remember, I am not talking hypothetical here - I've been GM'ing Hero system games for more than 20 years - and using a randomized SPD chart for nearly 8. *I* think it's a big improvement and while some people prefer the chart, many others do not. cheers, Mark

I've run two different approaches. for standard fantasy games, I stick wothbean counting: it gives me greater control over what the players can and cannot buy and a lever to push them where I want them to go "Tha's right, an empty castle wiv looooads a' munney..." That helps generate the gritty "anything for a bit of loot" mentality appropriate to freebooting warriors and rogues. In my recent game, I wanted the players to focus on other things. They were all retainers of a feudal lord. If they wanted weapons and armour, they went to the armoury and helped themselves, if they wanted warhorses, they asked for them. If they had to go on a journey, their lord gave them a purse with "enough" cash. Just like nobles in real life, they carried very little actual money. That worked too, with the players very occasionally being challenged for cash, and mostly not bothering their little feudal heads about it. cheers, Mark

>>>> Something to remember is that the 'unskilled fighting off of brute force and raw talent' doesn't cut it in a bloody violent world as you tended to find in those times. The warriors who survived fights learned what worked and what didn't and when they trained their sons in how to fight, they passed on what they knew. And the ones who survived those battles learned even more and passed it on to their kids.<<<<< Actually there isn't the faintest evidence of any tradition of passing on acquired knowledge in most of European medieval history - the renaissance-era feltenbucher being the beginnings of the tradition. The fact that feltenbucher mix practical advice with fanciful technquies guaranteed to get you killed on battlefield, suggests that they are a mixture of experience, gossip and made-up "special techniques" designed to sell book... Certainly famous medieval warriors like John Marshall appear to have picked up their skills "on the job" so to speak. When Marshall retired, laden with gold and accolades, he wrote no books, took no pupils and gave no lessons. Instead, he did what retired knights were suposed to do: he took up farming and his family faded into genteel obscurity. So literacy and combat do not automatically generate martial arts traditions. Certainly, in my game world, elf lords learn no martial arts, leaving such sweaty, undignified pursuits for the "lesser races" - preferring instead to use magic to peel the skin and muscles off anyone silly enough to try to hit them. cheers, Mark

I agree totally with Fitz. I've also experimented with a variety of systems from "by the book speed chart" to "no SPD stat." The metagaming argument is solid - the problem is not that "player X is worried about throwing a haymaker, and hopes their opponent doesn't go on the next phase". It's player X throwing a haymaker KNOWING their opponent can't retaliate in time. It's players who go "I'll delay a phase and then jump into their middle and sweep with all my levels on OCV, 'cos I get to go the phase after that, so that if I miss any of them I can abort to block or dodge and shift my levels even if they have higher DEX than I do, and then the phase after that, I'll change to..." That's not tactics, that's long range strategy and it has no place in my FH game world B-( Some players like this wargamey aspect to things, and I'll hang my head in shame and admit that I have manipulated the SPD chart with the best (worst) of them - so if that winds your dial, fine. For 4 colour comics, it's even appropriate. For Fantasy Hero where most people fall into the 2-4 SPD range, it can get ugly and to me (and my players) it detracts from the all-important "fantasy ambiance". Combat *should* be messy and chaotic (at least that's my experience), but randomising the SPD chart does not remove the element of tactics, it merely reduces the element of certainty - in effect, my players WAIT for those fleeting moments when they can sweep or haymaker, in the hope that they can get away with it unscathed. They don't plan them weeks in advance, knowing that they will occur. Personally I couldn't go back to SPD chart now and the threat of doing so effectively silenced the players who whined about me reolling a string of 1 and 2's so the lowlifes all got a chance to act every phase. The other suggestions, while worthy (like try getting people to hold actions to go outside their normal phases) should be part of every GM's trick book - but they a) only address part of the problem and load even more work on the GM - no fun when the players are trying to beat off the attacks of 25 sprites (SPD4) riding giant wasps (SPD2) and the GM is trying to keep track of the lot. Getting players to make PER rolls is also a good idea (I use when someone is trying to circle around to take a target by surprise, but in general, Hero system combat needs extra rolls like it needs furry dice. Last of all, the "No SPD" option was tried by a fellow GM in a game I played in. The result was dreadful. Dull, limited combat (plus it messes with the balance around END and charges something 'orrible, and alters the balance of characteristics - DEX becomes even more important, since it is the sole determinant of when you act) and the only real benefit was that all the people involved swore a solemn oath never to do it again. Unfortunately, I don't have a pefect answer. I use the random phase method (Fitz's #2) as it is the easiest and least bad of the options, but that's only 'cos I can't come up with anything better. cheers, Mark

In defence of the site :-) it says up front that the spells are MEANT to be generic. A list of 1000 spells based around hindu mysicism would be kinda cool, but also utterly useless to 99% of GMs. There are web pages on the same site specifically describing how to create specific styles of magic - including as it happens, a Voudoun-inspired system. But the whole point of the spell list is to generate a list of generic "starting points" which can then be customised as desired. cheers, Mark

OK. It's up. http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/markdoc/Inquisitor/inquistor_index.htm have fun. As for Space Marines, they are described as being "the ultimate" in human development, but in practice, are only a little tougher than Imperial Guard, who are after all, just the scum of the galaxy. I initially gave them 20 in all their physical stat.s but that's just an insane amount of points, for a "heroic" level game, so toned the "starting" space marine down to 15's across the board (that doesn't sound like much but it means they are twice as fast, twice as tough, etc as a normal adult in prime condition. Add in the acid spit, black carapace, reinforced skeleton, nifty sense, etc, and they can kick butt even without all their cool gear. I have the stat.s, so can post them if there is any interest. cheers, Mark

go here.... http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/OAT/oat.htm

There's a description of how I make my cardboard characters here: http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/OAT/cardboard_mooks.htm They fit nicely on hex sheets and don't fall over. cheers, Mark

>>>>Still, what you are describing is a very complicated job for a GM. This would require extremely intricate stories so - lift them from old fantasy novels. I'm not sure how many contemporary fantasy novels are "deep" enough for such artful thievery but many older fantasy novels are replete with mysteries that need to be solved that lead to quandaries about what to do. The Foundation Series would be a fascinating plot to adapt to a Fantasy Setting of UltraMages.<<<<< Now you are getting the idea - for this kind of game, you need to lift ideas from other than the traditional fantasy sources. I ran a game called "Masters of Luck and Death" in which all of the players were Immortals with "powers beyond the ken of ordinary men". Death, for example, could see other people's deaths, kill with a touch or travel to anyplace where there was lot of death occurring. The Hanged Man could take on other people's forms, skills, even memories - but only when he/she "died", while the Devil was the arch-seducer. In short, 250 point characters, in a world where a veteran soldier was built on 25 points.... For games like that you draw inspiration from (among others) Creatures of Light and Darkness, or 9 princes in Amber, Master of Reality or Aristoi. Or from games like Mage and VtM. cheers, Mark

I got asked by some of my players to run a game set in the 40K universe a while back - just a one-off, root-out-the-evil-cult-and-punish-the-impious deal. I converted all the weapons and armour and a variety of nifty widgets from the Inquisitor books, but kept to the 40K rules as closely as possible. If there is interest, I can whip up a couple of quickie illustrations and turn the word documents into webpages. But be warned - adhering to the 40K rules means that some of the weapons are ridiculously lethal :-) cheers, Mark

>>>>Powers Cost: 6 That is an expensive Healing Potion to create, but wouldn't cost anything as equipment...<<<< I can't think of many players who would be willing to throw away 6 XP for a one shot healing potion - certianly none of my NPCs would be so daft! I think Trigger is the only way to go for potions, with some anti-abuse safeguards built in (such as activation time, expensive components and the fact that you can't use multiples at the same time without risk). cheers, Mark

As already mentioned, the only real challenge for high level magic users is other high level magic users, whether they be gods, demons, ancient dragons or other wrinkly old guys. The real point for this post is to suggest some useful source material. Jack Vance's Rhialto the Magnificent is a series of short stories detailing the treacheries and affairs of a group of Ultramages. Kings and kingdoms are largely irrelevant to these guys. By the same author, the Lyonesse series also has a group of ultramages - in their case they are forbidden to interfere in mundane affairs by the toughest mage around and a few of his buddies, who promise to duff over any mages they catch messing with the mundane world (which doesn't actually stop any of them, of course). If you are going to run a game at this power level, you need to offer the players challenges other than kill-the-monster, loot-the-place. Perhaps organising kingdoms or setting up new religions, or... cheers, Mark