smoelf

Yes, I'm right there with you. I'm one of those people who fell in love with the idea of HERO years ago, but have had a hard time converting that into practice. This obviously has a number of reasons, but it certainly does not help that I know not a single person who already knows HERO (which means that I'll likely have to GM), that I am a very inexperienced GM, and that I have not had a regular gaming group for a long time. Sitting down with 6E on your own without previous exposure to the system is quite the task. I'm beginning to think that one reason for that is that 6E was written for people who already knew HERO System, and just needed a presentation of the new ruleset. There are certain assumptions about how the system plays in practice that differs from a few of the other well known system, which are not very well described and the information is scattered in many various places. This gives a learner the impression that, yes, they do actually need to read back to back in order to be sure that they catch all those small, essential paragraphs that explicate the assumptions. I can give examples, but perhaps that would be better served for another thread, to reduce the derailing. This means that my usual pattern have been to take the PDF's out a few times a year to ponder and wonder the amazing possibiities that HERO gives me, which D&D or Pathfinder does not, and then putting them aside, being stuck in that endless loop of not being able to put a gaming group together without having a proper grasp of the system to GM, but not really acquiring a proper grasp of the system because of a lack of context for learning and understanding how it plays out. Finally, I recently reached out to my old GM and asked if he was interested in scraping a few people together if I ran a one-shot/mini-adventure this summer. He was quite hooked (due to a lack of gaming), and I think I'll be able to put something together, but it has truly been a bite-sized endeavour. Time, energy, and obligations are naturally also obstacles for the process. I don't think it has to take as long as it did for me, but the problems in the system presentation and system-support certainly did not help.

That's fair. My thoughts on similarity mostly pertained to the generic/multi-genre presentation of it - rather merely as an alternative approach to simulating the high fantasy of D&D (and Ptolus). Definitely! The reputation of the Ptolus setting as such likely also plays a big part, so it is not like it would be simple for DOJ to do something similar. But it's still an interesting approach. As I said, I had never heard about the Cypher system before. The setting looks cool, so I've thought of backing it, and if I do, it would likely be at a level, where I'd get both versions in PDF, which would place me in a position to dip into the Cypher system, if it looks interesting. The set-up has made me curious about the system, while the model increases the chances of financial success.

At this point I'm probably only halfway through this thread, so I'm not sure where the discussion has moved by now, but I just wanted to share this: Earlier in the thread there was some discussion on the importance of setting in promoting a system. I think Monte Cook's kickstarter is an interesting example of that. First of all it indicates that good settings can sell well, as there is quite a good interest in it (and there are still 16 days to go). Second, it has a very interesting model, where they sell two versions of their setting. One updated to D&D 5E and another that uses their own system: Cypher. Backers can choose either or both of these versions. I don't know Cypher, but reading about it does present some HERO similarities: http://cypher-system.com/what-is-the-cypher-system/ It's a very slick approach to pushing their own system, by attaching it to a (for some) well known setting from D&D 3.5E and presenting it as an option. Is it worth it? A quick scan shows that only about 5 % of backers select the Cypher-only version. It's not a lot in itself, but it's still a few hundred people - even if we don't know how many of them are already Cypher players and how many are risking trying out a new system for a cool setting. Obviously, Cypher has some advantages in that it seems to build on similar assumptions to D&D (otherwise it would not make sense to use both systems for the same setting), so it might be difficult to pull off a similar stunt for HERO, but I find it to be an interesting case.

I think I have only ever once come close to something that was 'immersion breaking' to the point of taking me out of the game. We were playing in my GM's world, where he had designed a few different religions. One was modelled after the medieval Catholic Church while another was basically a powerful sorcerer-god and ruled his nation of worshippers as king. I played a D&D barbarian and had decided to play into a kind of zealot with a long term goal of uniting the religious leaders of the former religion to bring order to the world - and perhaps eventually invade the neigbooring heathen nations. At least, so was my thought. But the premise of it was quickly snuffed out, when my barbarian (IC) expressed his view that this sorcerer-god was not really a god, but simply a pretender. A reasonable conclusion for a religious zealot. But at that point our GM just basically said (OOC to me as a player) "No. He really is a god." We never got far enough in the campaign for me to really discuss it with our GM. I'm sure he would have accepted my reasoning (he's a reasonable guy), if we had had the time, so this is not just about being told no. Where the immersion breaks is where the concept of 'a theology' is simply removed from the world building and replaced with metaphysical realities that are identifiable with their dogmas. Working with historical theology is a big part of what I do, and seeing how dogma and theology evolve and develop over time, it has become impossible (or at least very difficult) for me to accept the idea that the dogma(s) of a religion should be identified with the metaphysical reality of 'the god(s)'. This is also why I'd rather build my own world before playing in a D&D-based world again, such as Forgotten Realms; which I had previously LOVED. I suppose another part of it is also the interaction itself, where an IC-development is met with an OOC response of "No, you can't do that." That in itself can really take you out of a game. Sometimes it's probably needed, if there is disagreement on the premises of the game, but I think it works better if those are solved either IC or after the game - unless they are of major importance.

Thank you for all of the replies so far. These are really useful considerations. I hadn't thought about that. So some characters might buy extra DEX to get an advantage in the same segments, but you could get a similar advantage by buying extra speed, without spending points on DEX. Oh, that's interesting. For some reason there is something very appealing about rolling for initiative in D&D, instead of the static, but consistent start of HERO, but I suppose it only really works if you have differing speeds.

That's a really useful description. I'm gonna save that for later.

I've never been much into superhero stuff, but from my time here on the boards, I've gleaned a thing or two about the genre - particularly the 'speedster' as a character trope. The character with superhuman speed makes a lot of sense (in as much as anything does) in the superhero genre, but I was wondering how people are dealing with variable speed in fantasy. Skimming through the board I occasionally see the advice to either ditch the speed chart entirely or keep everyone at the same speed (2 or 3), perhaps because this is what is expected from the systems that other players are coming from as it reduces book keeping and superspeed isn't as much a trope in fantasy as in superheroes. A quick glance through the bestiary also shows that most humanoids have speed 3, which gives me the impression that this is the stock standard for fantasy hero characters (although the hero gallery in FH does have speeds of both 3 and 4). So how do you use speed and the speed chart in your fantasy campaign? Do you have variable speed among the PC's and how is this difference understood in in-game terms?

That actually looks like a nice way to do it. I did notice the Damage over Time modifier, but somehow it didn't occur to me, that I could apply it to a healing power. Thank you!

I've never been quite fond of the concept of the healing spell in fantasy rpg's but at the same time it is very useful to have some sort of healing capability from a gameplay perspective. One way that I've been considering is to tie healing up with herbalism and alchemy. Healing is possible, but slow and clumsy, so it is not suitable for use in combat, but does allow for someone to get back in the fray within a few days instead of lying in the hospital for a month. The use of herbalism or alchemy would not be an instant heal, but would enhance the natural healing of the body to rebuild and restore from the damage, but I'm not sure how to build this. For many of the circumstantial modifiers, I'm assuming a build similar to the Salve of Wound-Knitting om p. 17 HERO System Grimoire (I can't remember if it is okay to copy the text here, so I'll stick to the page reference for now), but I'm mostly interested in the primary effect. I'm thinking something along the line of healing 1 BODY per hour (or per 20 min if it is potent) for a total of, perhaps, 6-10 BODY healed. Healing over time makes me think of Regeneration (perhaps with a time limit), but the potion system uses the Delayed Effect to allow for the potions to be used by others than the person who brewed. I can't but think that it would be against the rules to use Delayed Effect in this way, since Regeneration can't get the Usable By Others modifier.

Sounds good. I've been looking forward to this one.

There is also an actual play podcast from Drink Spin Run. It might be helpful. It also has a link to a video in the comment section there.

You might also include (or publish separately) a collection of all tables in the core books. Or perhaps of all books at all, or maybe several thematic collections. If I ever get a group together to try Hero, I would definitely print out a copy of all tables to each player for easy reference, but I would gladly pay a few dollars for a formatted version, so I won't have to copy-paste all those pictures into a word document to print. But this is more of a nice-to-have than need-to-have.

Over the past few years there has been a number of threads similar to this one, and they have always been fascinating to read through. This time I thought I might contribute to it. I have been a Hero newbie for a several years now. It is not because I am particularly dense that I haven't moved beyond the newbie stage yet, but it's just been a while since I had a gaming group, so I mostly just play around with the system at regular intervals. For the purposes of this thread I do not have FHC, so some of my suggestions might be void due to the change in layout from the core books, but they might be helpful considerations nonetheless. I have a couple of points. First of all I would like to reiterate what drew me to the Hero system in the first place. If a "newbie-friendly" version does not enable me to do this, then the efforts will be wasted, for me at least. 1) The ability to create a character that is not tied to the strictures of a class-based system. I want to be able to make, say, a heavy armored melee character with an animal companion, without having to multiclass in a way that does not make sense according to the concept, or looking through vast amounts of splatbooks to find that one feat or prestigeclass that might fit. 2) The ability to design and utilize a magic system that does not rely on spellslots, and which enable me to design spells that actually fit the style of character I want to play. I have spent a long time looking through books when preparing my cleric spells, and never being quite satisfied with my options. Everything else in the Hero system is simply boni, even if they are really nice boni. I realize this already makes me a candidate for the expanded rules that allow tinkering with the system, but it was what drew me to the Hero system to begin with. And I think it is important to realize that when thinking about my previous game group, I can only think of one who would care about Hero system on the basis of this. The rest of them would be perfectly happy playing DnD/Pathfinder with classes and Vancian magic. I don't think a beginners' book on the Hero system would have any appeal for them, but maybe that's not the purpose anyway. If the intent is to draw in new players, the above considerations are important to keep in mind, but if intent is to teach already interested players, then it makes sense to work on a simpler presentation. As for what that might constitute, it is also important to acknowledge that different people experience things differently. Personally I never had a problem with the nomenclature and abbreviations of Hero. However, for a long time I had no idea how naked advantages worked. I knew how to build them, but not how to use them. The reason for this was that I was under the assumption that a half-phase action was the basic power action in the game. I was used to attack actions being the standard from which all else is measured, so when attack actions were a half-phase action, I assumed that unless otherwise noted a power required a half-phase action to use. Boy, was I wrong. It took a long time before I realized that the standard activation action was a zero-phase action. It was simple and right there, but for some reason I had missed it. The same thing with linked powers being used simultaneously instead of requiring two attack actions. It took me a long time before I noticed that, which also kept me from really understanding how linked powers worked. I think one of the problems is that there is a lot of text. There is a lot of text, and I don't have the time nor patience to read the two core books cover to cover, and there is a lot of information hidden simply in text blocks throughout the book. Simpler presentation with an awareness of what assumptions new people bring to the book might be useful here. Again, I don't know if that has improved in FHC. Another thing I might mention is the "Hero way" to do things. Both on the board and in the books, there seems to be certain "standard" way of building certain powers. Like trackless stride being invisible power effects on movement. It can be really hard to figure out what those "standard" ways are, because it requires a way of thinking that is more abstracted than what most people are used to. This is of course a postulate, but of the most eyeopening things for me has been to read the threads where people build stuff and then explain their reasoning behind it. That gives me a much better understanding of what the different parts of Hero system do. It is a lot of work for a beginner to read through all the advantages and limitations in order to determine, which of those adequately model the effect you want to achieve. On the one hand it can be a bit disheartening when you think you have a power figured out, only to realize that there was a "standard" way of modelling it, that is way easier and more intuitive, but on the other hand, this might provide a good starting point for a separate beginners' resource on how to use the tools at your disposal, in ways that are not immediately obvious, when coming from a different game system. Just a thought. Finally, I would like comment on the marketing issue. Helping newbies understand Hero better is important and a good thing, but drawing them in is just as important as keeping them around, and I feel like the community has missed out on a couple of amazing opportunities that are surging these years. Actual play streaming. Anyone here watch Critical Role? It's a show where a bunch of voice actors play DnD on Twitch. It has a huge impact in drawing new people into the hobby. People watch it for the show (since they are afterall actors), and then realize how much fun DnD is. On top of that, it is also helpful to teach people how to play, as they see it in action with some explanation on the side or on Reddit afterwards. I have a couple of times searched the web franctically to find an actual play podcast or stream series, and have been sorely disappointed. The only youtube-video I found was by HERO Evangelist, who made a single video five years ago, and then there is the Narosia introduction on Drink Spin Run, and then there is a Champions intro as well on Happyjacks (but maybe only a single episode?). I think this would be an amazing platform to introduce new people to the game, who might come to watch the show for the sake of the show, and then want to try their hands on it themselves, and it would an opportunity to show people how it works in practice, as well as a basis for explaining core concepts in video format. Of course, this required equipment, time, some theatrical flair and a group with a willingness to participate, so I understand why nobody has done it. But if the only thing holding someone back from doing this is realizing that this is a possibility/opportunity, then I thought I might mention it. Just my 25 øre.

That actually makes a lot of sense. So giving it a limitation (Self Only) would in a way negate the nature of the power by applying it to the individual instead of an area as it normally would,

Thanks for the responses so far. That was also my first thought, but won't it require the tracked character actively trying to conceal their trail? It seems to me that there is a distinction between actively hiding your tracks (Tracking Skill) and the environment making it harder for someone to be tracked (Change Environment). Or am I just reading too much into the descriptions in the books? I really like this one, thanks.

I'm looking for some assistance in build a power/talent that would make it harder to track a character. I have a build that I think might accomplish what I want to do, but am also looking for some ideas of how to do it differently. And I do apologize for the very roundabout way of actually asking the question, but it helps me to type out my process But first some fluff text to describe the power/talent: Being a guardian of the forest Bantar is capable of moving almost unseen through the forest. If one pays close attention when at his side you might see the bushes and brambles giving way and closing behind him. The earth, moss, and twigs soften under his steps so not a footprint nor a broken twig can be found. You can only track him down, if he wants you to, unless your skills as a hunter supercede his. Here is my process to the current build that I would like an opinion on. Looking through the books it seems that the standard skill Tracking is the skill that one might use to find the character with this power/talent. According to 6E1 it is possible to make it harder to track someone if they use their Tracking skill to hide their trail. It is an option, but I'm not sure if it is appropriate here. The power/talent here is more an effortless effect, where the forest itself contributes to hiding their trail, while it seems the Tracking skill requires a conscious effort to hide one's trail. If this power/talent was purchased by an NPC, this would not really be a problem as one could make such a Tracking roll when appropriate in relation to the PC's efforts, but I'm not sure it work well if a PC had that power/talent. It would either result in many and frequent rolls, just to be sure, or rolls with a retroactive effect when applicable, which could spoil a surprise. Then I found the Change Environment power, and thought it did exactly what I needed, as it enables penalties to skills rolls. Thus I ended up with the following power/talent: Friend of the Forest: Change Environment (-5 to all Tracking Rolls, 15 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END, +½), Persistent (+¼), Area of Effect (1 m Radius, +¼) (30 Active Points); No Range (-½), Only versus checks to track this character (-¼), Only in forests (-¼). Total cost: 15 points. I have a few comments and some questions regarding the build. Reduced Endurance seemed like a no-brainer, but I was a bit unsure of Persistent. 6E1 p174 says that the effects of Change Environment would disappear when the character stops paying endurance for it. I assume this means that if the power/talent is constant, then the effect disappears when the characters goes to sleep. This does not really make sense when considering the special effect, but I am not sure if there is a difference between persistent and constant if it is bought with Reduced Endurance (0 END). Another issue is how it would interact with other characters in how it affects the environment. I have given it No Range and Area of Effect (1 m) as it only affects the area right around the character. But through this it might affect a character very far away as they try to track where they were four days ago. Should I instead buy it with some kind of Megascale to ensure that whenever a character is trying to track them it is with the range of effect of the power/talent? In a similar vein 6E1 also states that a Change Environment can be permanent if it has little to no combat effect. Would such a build be considered in that category? Regarding the last two limitations I am more unsure of how to price them, I guess it would depend a lot on whether the character in an NPC spending the majority of the campaign alone in a forest, or if they are a PC travelling in groups often outside of forests. How would you value those limitations in either case? Any other ideas of how to build such a power/talent

Awesome. Thanks a lot for the input. It's cool that HERO can do so many things, but also a bit overwhelming to wrap your head around. Regarding the nature of these demons, they are probably closer to spiritual creatures with the ability to physically manifest themselves in the world. They need that physical manifestation in order to interact with the physical realm, as in their spiritual state they can do nothing but move and observe with a reduced ability to communicate mentally. In that way they can respond to the call of the person who bound them. Usually, once bound, they would stick around in their spiritual state, and only manifest themselves once called to complete certain tasks. These tasks would often include assistance in combat, or perhaps travel longer distances to deliver messages or gather information. Even if they are bound they are not slavishly loyal. They have their own consciousness and can choose to withhold information or simply refuse to fights once called. If we are being a little reductionistic we could say that if they had a classic D&D alignment, they might get a roll to break the bond if asked to complete a task contrary to their alignment or they would get a bonus to win the roll, if such a roll was already needed. If a particular demon had an especially independent personality, it would be more likely to break the bond, even if the binding ritual(s) had succeeded in the first place. You know, now that I have written it out in more detail, it actually makes a lot of sense to use the Summon power limited to a predefined group of bound demons (maybe as a VPP to give different advantages and limitations based on their personality. Some might be strong willed, while others might be devoted), and then require either a Transform spell or use of Animal Handling (Demon) (I really like that suggestion) to bind it and add it to that group. In addition other powers could be built with a physically manifested demon as special effect. The EGO roll involved in Summon would do fine with simulating the character's ability to control the demon, and then keep separate track of when a demon would have failed enough rolls or failed a roll to a sufficient degree to break the bond.

I was recently inspired to return to my HERO system books, and started thinking about possible ways to design certain character concepts, but as usual ran into the road block of not being very experienced with these kind of systems, hence the bringing of my conundrum to you. I had an idea of a character based around seeking out and binding demon-like creatures to the character as a sort of servants, but I am having trouble finding a good way to do it. I thought about Summon, Mind Control or Follower, but none of them seem to do the job quite well, as the build should include both the concept of actively seeking out or randomly meeting the demon, thus binding it through an active ritual, a duration that would likely be medium to long term but with the possibility of a particularly strong demon (or a weaker demon asked to act contrary to psychological profile) being able to break the bond, and the rare possibility of a bound demon developing a bond of loyalty with the character. Summon doesn't really include the aspect of seeking out and actively binding the demon before summoning them or it for a specific purpose (combat or message delivery etc.). Mind Control seems to only relate to individual actions (if I have read the description properly), which would make it a chore to continuously mind control one or more demons to follow the character around as well as directing them in combat. Follower also doesn't include the aspect of the binding, and also leaves out the possibility for them breaking the bond, although I imagine a few limitations would do the trick (6E102 states that follower are by nature loyal, so I imagine it would be possible to give it a limitation to make them "involuntary" as a starting point with the possibility to break the bond?). As for the ritual itself, as far as I have read, a Transform would likely be the best option, perhaps accompanied by a series of skills challenges, but the question is what it should transform, and here I am really interested in your opinions. Since they would be useful in combat, the character should definitely pay character points for every demon under their control, at least in some capacity, so it would not be enough to use Transform to give the demon a "Complication: Must obey Character unless an EGO skill roll succeeds". Right now the most obvious choice would be the Follower perk with the proper limitations, but that creates some problems. Depending on how many points these demons are build on, the character might need to have a rather sizable portion of their characters point lie dormant in a Follower perk until they perform the ritual the first time, and what happens when they meet a stronger demon that they can bind? Could they bind the new demon and the pay the necessary character points for a better Follower perk, or should they upgrade their Follower perk before they are allowed to bind a stronger demon or another demon of equal cost? And if the demon break the bond, that is a wasted Follower perk until they can find a new demon to bind. It can easily end up being case of all-or-nothing with such a character, and maybe that is just the nature of such a concept, but I would prefer it to have sense of stability in power, if that is at all possible. Regarding the development of a bond of loyalty, it seems most likely that a regular Follower perk would do the job, while the development of such a bond would be a result of role play. In any case I am most concerned with how to build the capability for medium-long term temporary allies bound as a result of an active ritual. Anyway: Thoughts, ideas, opinions?

Great idea. This recent documentary might also be of relevance:

For some reason I couldn't find any reference to this on the forum, so I thought I should share it: http://www.drinkspinrun.com/2015/05/dsr-actual-play-dsr-learns-hero-system.html Also, for someone who doesn't have a HERO mentor, it is really helpful to see/hear it in action. I have been trying to find such podcast for a while, but it doesn't seem to be out there. With the success of Acquisitions Inc. and Critical Role, it would be cool to see something similar with HERO.

Threads like these make me realize how long I've been lurking, and I still haven't played HERO yet But it's nice to get a chance chance to introduce myself properly, so here goes. How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)? Smoelf is an anglicized spelling of the Danish word for a smurf. Yes, I am a short person. Got the nickname sometime in middle school, and have used it as a username ever since for almost anything. What was the first tabletop RPG you played? Technically a Danish system I can't remember the name of, that I tried in 10. grade, but my first real experience was with D&D 3.5 (later moved on to Pathfinder), which a friend of mine introduced me to in (the Danish equivalent of) high school. We ran a couple of campaigns over the next five or so years, before our GM had to go abroad for an exchange stay. What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed? I tried running a campaign a while back with Pathfinder, although it ceded after only a few sessions. Mostly because some people stopped responding to Doodles' for arranging a new session, but probably also because I wan't a particularly good GM. That stuff takes practice What are you currently playing/GMing? Nothing at the moment, due to a combination of our GM being abroad, and myself finishing up a one year-long exchange stay in the US. I do hope to get something up and running when I get back. When did you start to play Hero? As I mentioned, I haven't played HERO yet. For some reason I can't remember, I was made aware of HERO years back, and got the 6th edition core books, and some other material, but I think it was after our GM left, and I didn't know the system well enough to start GM'ing it, especially after my past experience. I still return to the books occasionally when I get a cool idea for a character that seems impossible to create with the D&D/Pathfinder system, so I'm still hoping for a chance to try it out

Re: Acquitaine [PDF] now available. It's looking good. Now I really have to get Tuala Morn

Re: Clarification on adding STR to KA damage In 6E2 p. 99 it is suggested as a guideline that a base power cannot more than double it's DC with strength or maneuvers, so a 1 pt HKA is DC 1. That means the maximum is DC2 which is 1/2d6. I guess the Bestiary just accounts for this rule.

Re: TUALA MORN -- Interested In More Stuff? This is looking good. Will you be including a bibliography as well?

Re: TUALA MORN -- Interested In More Stuff? I would definitely buy the Acquitaine PDF and several of the others sound really interesting. Especially Kelmark, Vulkringland and Talianora. Karellia seems intriquing as well.