gojira

Re: What have you used?

I think the bits I've read through the most are the mini-settings in Urban Fantasy and Post-Apocalyptic Hero. Some neat ideas there. Those kind of forced me to use Fantasy Hero and the Gromoires, due to the rather spread out nature of information in Hero.

However I haven't used those technically, as I'm not actually gaming with them. Sorta thinking about starting a game, but no game time yet.

I also liked reading Valdorian Age and Tuala Morn. Again no actual use, but fun writing and ideas.

Re: Help me grok HERO!

9-10 OCV would be in the "Legendary" range' date=' which I have declared off-limits except by special permission (i.e., you need a damned good reason). I think professional soldiers, particularly front-line combat troops, should have 6 or 7 OCV and DCV; ordinary civilians would have Combat Values of 2 or 3.[/quote']

 

The problem with declaring "Legendary" off limits is that you are playing superheroes, and superheroes qualify as legendary. In fact, to the right of the Legendary column is "Superhuman," and that's what you're doing. So you should move the cap for stats up to 75 points or so, and OCV and DCV up too, if you are going to play 400 point heroes. (That means having a Strength of 75 is OK.)

 

Or as Tasha suggests you can reduce the points overall to 250 and play under the Legendary cap. You'd end up with something more like the Heroes TV show.

 

BTW, OCV 7 for soldiers sounds rather high. I'd say OCV 3-4 for a basic soldier, plus up to +2 total in skills, then the rest of their bonus should come from equipment. For example, a scope on a rifle.

Re: Help me grok HERO!

I thought Diamond Age was a common term for post-Rust Age.

http://www.comicvine.com/news/is-this-the-diamond-age-of-comics/141229/

Re: Help me grok HERO!

What I think we really need is some more campaign info. Unfortunately the Hero words for this thing might be in one of the books you don't have.

What is the target power level? 400 points is standard for a super hero, but it can be more or less for different types of genres.

Do you have any power limits? Attack powers, defense powers, OCV, DCV?

Game world stuff:

Who are the players opponents, if they are the only supers? Because no super villains....

What's the tone? Grim, light, humor? What comic book age? Silver, bronze, iron, diamond, rust?

What kind of morality? Are the players expected to be all "good," or "evil," or will the form a cohesive group at all?

Do you have any details for the campaign city?

What do you have planned for their first challenge?

Re: Help me grok HERO!

See, I did not get "psi" out of "bio-kinesis." I got more of a shape-changer, morphing, Venom-meets-Dr.-Moreau kind of vibe.

OP might want to clarify for us.

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

I think we're arguing orthogonally here. I'm saying modules need to be geared for a particular campaign. You can't really do a module that works for the Turakian Age, the Valdorian Age, and Narosia all at the same time.

You're saying they could do a series of modules. Well, sure. But they'd need one series for the Turakian Age, one for the Valdorian Age, and one for Narosia. It's three times as much work to support three campaigns, and presumably you don't earn any more because your customer base is split between three major campaigns for the one genre.

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

Just to toss some more virtual bread crumbs out while feeding the pigeons, DnD has a much more rigidly defined system. Queen of the Demon Webs could put "For level 10th-16th adventurers" and have a ready market. In Hero, it's not so clear what you put on the outside of your adventure module to let folks know what to expect inside.

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

I think I might agree with the Old Man, at least partially. I was going to add, on my own, that Wizards/DnD seems to have one setting, at any given time, and to put all of their resources (writing, printing, advertising, etc.) behind that one setting. Which is what it seems to take to make a setting "wildly popular." What appears to not work is the shotgun approach, where you sort of spray your resources around and hope something hits.

There's a new adventure, Tangent One, just announced. It's a system-less adventure for a fantasy RPG. While that's a neat idea, I find myself wondering how useful it could really be, with no stats for monsters or other details. It's those details which save me time, or most of my time anyway. But it illustrates the problem that Hero Games currently has so many fantasy campaigns going that supporting just one isn't really possible.

For two bucks, I might chance a purchase, just to see what it's like. But I'm still kind of dubious of the concept of a system-less adventure.

Re: Help me grok HERO!

I'm not sure I aggree with this. As Christopher pointed out above the effects of Transform are cummulative. One hit from the Transform power might not transform the target, but one hit of the Blast power doesn't knockout or kill most targets either.

The fact that this sort of thing is a Severe (is that the right adjective?) Transform means less dice and sure there will be a fair number of villains with enough Power Defense to make such an ability have less utility, but I would hardly call it an "all or nothing" power.

Well, what you say is true. However, you don't get any benefit from having a partially transformed target. And Major Transform is expensive, and as you say Power Defense is fairly common. So I do think that ultimately the player will see this as a power that "doesn't work" and isn't going to like it.

I read through 5e Champions again, and I think Mystic Master is a bit too mystic. However Check-List Hero would work pretty decently, only swapping out a couple of powers for flavor. Change the SFX from "gadgets" to "bio-kinesis" and give it a limitation like "Full phase to switch slots" and I think you'd have a very playable character.

Anyone with 6e Champions want to point out where this is in the new edition? I really am sorry I can't help more in that regard.

Re: Help me grok HERO!

Is there any way (i.e.' date=' any Limitation or combination of Limitations) to make this balanced? As a GM, I dislike giving my players an absolute "No." Maybe restrict it to touch range, and have it take time rather than being a zero-phase action?[/quote']

 

 

I really don't think so. Any limitation is going to make it less powerful and the problem with Transform is it either works or it doesn't. It's either too powerful, or it's no power at all. Either one is going to cause problems.

 

I still say you should get the Champions book, look at the pre-generated character list (it has lots of options, so you can still customize), and start with one of those. I think both the GM and the Player will be happier this way.

 

If you want a place to start, the old 5e rules had two power sets (Check-List Hero and Mystic Master) that could be given a "Bio-Kinetic" special effect, and I think would work well for a starting player and a viable character. I don't have the 6e version, or I'd help you more, but there are ways of getting close to the type of thing you are trying to do, without having to tell a player "no" directly.

Re: Help me grok HERO!

"I kinda like the idea of being able to warp them [targets] in the manner similar to how the creature in The Thing did to itself. And maybe force them into a normal version of something else' date=' like changing someone into a sheep or something."[/quote']

 

So, basically, if you can just turn anyone you want into a sheep, that's way too powerful in most games. Or, they'll resist your sheep-turning, and kick you into a bloody mess. The bottom line here is I don't feel this is a good character for a starting player or a starting GM. Why not pick a Brick, or something else easy to play, to start with?

 

Going into some more detail, if you have the Champions book, Witchcraft (the magical member of The Champions) has a spell, "Man into Frog" which you can use as a base to turn people into sheep. However, note that she can do a lot of other things besides turn people into frogs, and think about that. She has a lot of back up powers and things she can do besides Transform people, because Transform doesn't always work.

 

For other powers, always reason backwards from effect. What is the *effect* of these biokinetic powers? Then pick powers that do that. But again, tricky powers like this are hard to pull off until you know the system well, and until you can predict better what effects it will actually have. Frankly, your player seems to be power gaming, and is asking for a power that let's him do anything, and that's a good way to have a poor character concept.

 

Get one of the Champions books and use the pre-gens in there. You'll all be much happier.

Re: Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

I wonder if it is not that Fantasy Hero lacks pre-generated settings' date=' but that it lacks [i']widely popular[/i] (even in the Hero community) pre-generated settings.

It's ironic that someone would make this statement while there's a kickstarter for a fantasy setting for Hero, Narosia, that is not even half way to its funding goal and less that a week left to fund it. Either there's no way to make a setting "wildly popular" with Hero's customer numbers, or Hero's customers just aren't into pregenerated settings. Or maybe there's some other reason, I can't really tell.

Re: Help me grok HERO!

That's a "use your judgement" and "make sure the power fits into your campaign."

Honestly I would ask your player to stay away from powers like Transform until you both understand the system better. Do you have the rest of the character? Have you looked at any other characters for inspiration? Which ones? Maybe you should try to use one of the quick superhero generators?

Re: Is this worth a Limitation?

I'm voting for "no points." That you can't feel what's beyond something is normal for touch, so I don't really see how it could be worth points to take a limitation for it.

If you had a sense that normally did see through things, I could go for it. If you have x-ray vision that is stopped by a large number of materials (let's say anything with a Def of more than 3, so basically you can only see through clothing, light armor, very light building construction, light plastic, etc.) then sure that's worth a Limitation and some extra points.

Re: What do I need? New to HERO.

If you go to the main landing page, there's a link in the upper right, "Visit the Hero Store."

http://www.herogames.com/home.htm

Here's a direct link to the core books:

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=256527

https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=240411

* * *

I have a question for ya: What game did you play at the Con? Who ran it? Because knowing a bit more about what it was might help us to direct you what you really need to get.

Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now?

Origa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFl5lBjSQI&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9AE5I0qI_NRL3-_VQj3KIn6&playnext=49

Re: Champions one-shot to teach/show off the system

If you think this is something you might like to see Hero Games distribute, you shouldn't use any characters that you or HG do not have the rights to publish. So X-Clones are right out.

I have no idea if that's where you are going with this, but I thought I'd bring it up.

However, I think teh bunneh uses pre-generated characters for Teen Titans TAS when he does demos, just because they're instantly recognizable to a lot of people, so if it's just you and your group, you might consider a similar easily recognizable group of characters. The problem with Teen Titans is there's only four (well, four main ones, I guess) and you sound like you have a larger group of players. If you look around, you could probably find the character sheets he uses, which have nice graphics.

Re: 6E - Low Fantasy Hero - Game Balance Issues - Advice Requested

Huh. That's genuinely new angle: I've never heard of another GM using resource pools like that.

Yeah I was intrigued also. I was thinking of doing something similar, although I've never tried it. What I was thinking of is to allow players to buy "starting wealth" with points. It doesn't affect wealth or pool afterwards, but it does allow a player to buy more things when making a new character.

Actually plain ol' wealth might just be the answer. Not a pool at all, but a fudgey character concept adjudicated by the GM. It explains why the Paladin always has a shiny suit of plate mail, even when his last one got dinged up in a fight, while the Druid sleeps out under the stars, eats twigs and berries, and is still wearing that same stinky robe he started in.

Re: 6E - Low Fantasy Hero - Game Balance Issues - Advice Requested

... how does that happen?

Because if the dagger is 5 character points, and the warhorse as a follower is 5 character points, then something must be taken out of the pool before something else can be put in.

Because there doesn't really have to be a limit on what is in the stash

I think we are all assuming that this is in fact what a resource pool does: create an artificial limit as to what a character can stash. Is there some other sort of resource pool?

Possibly just missed part of the conversation here...

Re: Advocacy on other sites...

If you have something to post, like a Hero game you are running, or you want to ask for other Hero players, or something like that, go ahead and feel free. A few of us will probably chime in.

But expect some arguing too. You need a really light touch with certain folks over there. One of the best tactics is just to decline politely to argue ("That really isn't the topic I intended.") and then move quickly to something that is on topic to direct the conversation elsewhere.

Anyway, I think what I'm saying is if you want to make some posts go ahead, but I think a call here for all of us to pile on rpg.net is inappropriate. If you'd like to mention, here, posts you've make at rpg.net I think that would be ok for some moral support.

Re: 6E - Low Fantasy Hero - Game Balance Issues - Advice Requested

I didn't read through everything in your last couple of posts, Markdoc, but for the OP: one way to limit problems like the "12DC Fireball" Mark mentions above is to give the Wizards a pre-approved spell list to choose from. Get the Fantasy Grimoire, tell your players "Weak, Apprentice versions of spells only to start, and here's a list of banned spells/schools" and let them pick lesser, more balanced versions of spells.

12DC Fireball? No, it's only 6DC. Hmm, and it's got a -6 penalty to cast, and it uses a lot of Endurance. Only going to be able to cast a few of those. Might want to look at adding some spells that are easier to cast for more flexibility.

Don't be afraid to set hard limits too. In Hero System's Urban Fantasy book, there's a mini-setting where mages can't take any kind of defenses spell. Oh, they can protect themselves against other spells: defense vs fire, defense vs dark magic, those are fine. But no defense that stops fists, or knives, or bullets. So any mage can be battered into submission with a good old punch in the nose.

Re: Algernon HERO

Curious: how well does it work with your e-reader?

Re: Advocacy on other sites...

Yes. Hero System on rpg.net has "history."

I tend to post there organically. That is, I post in threads where I have something to say, and otherwise I stay out. I don't go over there and try to "preach Hero System" at them, or something like that. They know about us, and when it's appropriate, HS gets mentioned.

Personally, I'd prefer to not be the reverse of the trolls Chris mentioned. Let's not wear out our welcome over there.

When Champions Complete is released, I intend to post a review/mini-review with my own thoughts. I think that's appropriate, being a new product and all. Until there's news though, I don't want to stir up their rpg.net pot. It seems kind of poor manners, imo.

Re: 6E - Low Fantasy Hero - Game Balance Issues - Advice Requested

Now that I've been able to read your reply...

Without trying to be overly critical of HERO 6E, as someone trying to learn the system, the one thing I have found disappointing is the lack of guidance in the way of "hard numbers" for different types of games / genres. The main books recommend implementing "effectiveness caps" but don't provide any real information on what that might look like nor any guidance on how to evaluate characters to ensure that they adhere to those caps.

It's been commented here, even lately, that the Hero System could benefit from some advice on getting started for beginners. So you are not alone in that observation. OTOH, a way to get started is fairly obvious:

1. Buy a pre-made setting

2. Use that as-is

Really if you're new it's the best way. All the hard work is done for you, all you have to do is follow along. After you've seen a couple of planned out settings, and GM'd them for players, you'll in a much better position to make your own from scratch.

Tuala Morn is very full featured, and contains a lot of Do. It. This. Way. Which means it shows you how to balance things by setting limits, which gives you clues as to what sorts of things need to be limited (like Combat Luck).

The Valdorian Age is another neat setting. It's a little more free-wheeling than Tuala Morn, and might require more GM interpretation, so it might be better to tackle second. There's a debt mechanic for spell casters that leaves a lot of room for roleplay, it's very mechanics light, but might be a struggle along with new rules.

I've purchased most of the genre books, and read every one of them from cover-to-cover hoping to glean enough information on how to pull off the campaign I'm trying to run; but obviously, I've been coming up short (at least of my own expectations).

There's at least one class of Hero GM (and I myself at least partially fall into this category) that expects their homebrew stuff to look just as good as the premade settings. Which is kind of an unrealistic expectation. We're not doing this as our day job, we have to come up with ideas on a much more limited time budget. So I'm wondering if you think you might be in the same boat.

But a prefab setting is much easier.

Re: 6E - Low Fantasy Hero - Game Balance Issues - Advice Requested

Thanks to everyone for their input. Many good suggestions and observations.

 

Christopher, you are correct: I and most of my players have very different play styles. When I'm not GMing, we typically play Pathfinder or D&D4e. I create backgrounds for all of my characters, even though they won't matter since they're running canned "adventure paths". One other player will typically come up with at least the outlines of some background. The others tend to plan out every skill point, feat, power, and spell they're going to pick from 1st level through 20th level. I, instead, wait to see how the campaign develops, and choose skills and abilities that make sense for the character, or to fill gaps in party capabilities (I often end up playing the characters with healing abilities, since they tend to not be as powerful in combat).

 

I've been gaming for over 30 years (I started when I was 10), and I guess I've been relatively fortunate with the gaming groups I've played in over the years. There have been some fantastic campaigns...and I've found that the quality of the campaign depended less on the talent/skill of the GM (though it's definitely a factor) than the quality of the players. Great players can carry a campaign when the GM is struggling...and the best and most memorable adventures (in my opinion) were not the ones where we completely outclassed our opponents and mopped the floor with them because we were so powerful. They were the ones where things went wrong, and we had to overcome adversity, injury, or long odds to eke out a victory, even if that victory was simply escaping with our lives.

 

I've been reading a thread on this board where everyone is posting "quotes of the week". I started at the beginning of the thread, and I'm somewhere in the neighborhood of post #2175 (out of about 11250 -- I plan to post some of my own great quotes when I get caught up to the current posts), and there's some GREAT stuff in there. One of the things I'm trying to do with my players is give them the opportunity to have THAT kind of gaming experience. I'd love for them to think back to "that gladiator campaign", and vividly remember those characters and some of the things they accomplished and the adventures they had! I look back on the Pathfinder and D&D campaigns / adventures over the past couple of years, and I can remember a couple of the characters that I've created and played, very few of the other characters, and very little of what we did (and I take notes during play to keep track of the NPCs and events so I know what's going on in the story).

 

Tasha,

 

The "generic gladiator" you provided is VERY helpful, and at a glance looks to be about the power level I was hoping for in the campaign. One thing I've noticed, at least among the players in my group is that they NEVER take anything but 2 or 3-point CSLs. I think this stems from the fact that 99.9% of the time, a character is going to have their weapon of choice available, so why spend the extra 2 points on a 5-point CSL when you'll hardly ever have call to use it? And a 10-point CSL? Forget it! With the min/max mentality, that's going to be a hard sell at best...and that's not a criticism of the build you provided! That's simply where my current expectations of my players are.

 

Also, I just noticed the link you had at the bottom of at least one of your previous posts: "How to Build Hero System Characters and Evaluate their Powerlevels". WHAT A GODSEND!!! I wish I had seen this sooner! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! (bookmarked the blog page)

 

Gojira,

 

I agree completely: the complications are a big part of what makes HERO characters interesting (and what seems to be lacking in so many other game systems). It also usually tends to be a big part of a character's background.

 

Without trying to be overly critical of HERO 6E, as someone trying to learn the system, the one thing I have found disappointing is the lack of guidance in the way of "hard numbers" for different types of games / genres. The main books recommend implementing "effectiveness caps" but don't provide any real information on what that might look like nor any guidance on how to evaluate characters to ensure that they adhere to those caps. I've purchased most of the genre books, and read every one of them from cover-to-cover hoping to glean enough information on how to pull off the campaign I'm trying to run; but obviously, I've been coming up short (at least of my own expectations).

 

If someone could pull together a book/pdf of play-tested systems with guidance for setting up the effectiveness caps for various genres to help us noobs, I can guarantee at least one sale...and it would probably also make the system more accessible to gamers who are more familiar with more "fixed" (level-based) systems. It wouldn't have to go into great detail about a particular genre...maybe even simply providing 1 or 2 "generic" characters (like Tasha's gladiator) would be enough in some instances. Most useful would be guidance on how to evaluate the characters that the players create to make sure that they're "balanced" under each genre/system and at least some of the "gotcha"s to look for. (Like combining shields with martial arts / martial block which NuSoardGraphite referenced -- the type of thing a beginning GM is very likely to miss.

I did some reformatting to make your post easier to read.