Force

Re: Creation philosophy I thought the only thing unbalancing was the 43dex/9spd/30" movement. However that was only a glance at her character sheet. Turns out she might have 30" of movment, but she can't do much else with her mp. This 'guide' that I use (and others) is only to compare the effectiveness of the character in combat as wrote up on the sheet. I don't know what formula's are actually used and I wish I could remember who wrote it. I know that my brick could beat you (even tho I have not listed his character sheet in this thread), he is a total combat monster. I certainly wouldn't argue that. I don't know how my ma would handle Z'lf. She is so damn fast! But it would be a good fight according to the calculator, as I believe it would and should be. I think Z'lf would have the edge due to a 9spd, but dice can be kinda tricky.

Re: Creation philosophy

Re: Creation philosophy Don't worry. I DID THE EXACT SAME THING. Like I said. Work with the program. Run multiple characters thru it. See how the numbers come out BEFORE you so off-handedly dismiss it. Unfortunately, I don't remember who actually created it.

Re: Creation philosophy Ok. Did another spin with that CR html script someone wrote along time ago. Here is the numbers and here is what I used to obtain them. OR=46 + DR=31 + MR=41. Big mistake I did was on regen. Total = 118. Like most programs, garbage in garbage out. I used 16ocv, 16dcv, 10dc, attacks 4 (hth, ma, nnd, eb), 9spd, 10", 4 movement powers (significant leap, run, tp, swim), 12/8 pd/ed, 29 stun, 45 in missile reflect and it should only be 1 bod for the regen. Now treb, are those numbers now reflective of what your character can do? And don't dismiss this chart so easily. Like hero, it takes awhile to figure out how to input the data correctly. I have found this a most USEFUL tool in comparing relative combat efficiencies of character from what was put down on paper. You just have to do it right. Which means my brick would definitely eat your lunch.

Re: Creation philosophy here: http://www.trimira.com/hero_stuff/combat_rating.html# It's been a LONG time since I used this. It's been changed quite a bit from the last time I used this. I think I even inputted Z'lf stats wrong. Especially after it was explained to me that the hth attack listed on the character sheet was not supposed to be usable with her martial arts.

Re: Creation philosophy 40 pts? It only raised it 2.

Re: Creation philosophy Sure it does. Everyone just uses that to dismiss everything that is brought up here. It's been mentioned in this post many times... Opinions don't matter.

Re: Creation philosophy Ahhh, you are correct and I stand corrected. Don't make any changes to your character just because I was 'nitpicking' (which I wasn't, I was simply going by how I interpreted her build). Like you stated, opinions don't matter. As I stated, she is a very dangerous martial artist, as she should be in her campaign. She is slightly overpowered according the the ratings program I use to compare folks, but like you stated even that doesn't matter. I don't even know why we are continuing this thread. Nothing to be gained by it as everything can be dismissed so easily.

Re: Creation philosophy

Re: Creation philosophy Ok. I was just going by how she was built. I don't see how she does 10dc with the hth attack tho. It's 30 active points with 15 str. Should only be 9dc. That will lower her into the hi 130's range, which is about what a 400pt character should be overall. At 9dc's she is more of an annoyance to a typical 400pt brick or eb.

Re: Creation philosophy So what you are saying is that this thread serves no purpose.

Re: Creation philosophy I don't think anyone is really saying she is too powerful. It's that she is not as weak as she is being portrayed. Is she invincible? Heck no. Is she very powerful martial artist? You bet. Is she unbalanced for her campaign? Doesn't sound like it to me. And Cap has always been a good litmus test for martial artists.

Re: Creation philosophy Str=15 is 3dc Martial strike= 2dc +3dc Martial arts =3dc That's 8d6 right? Add +4d6hth with zero end (from the multipower) and that makes 12d6 right? Advantages only don't add to martial damage right? You still get to use hth right? Zero end does not add to damage. I am thinking that this specifically applied to things like AP, Pen, so on and so forth. Unless I have missed something completely...

Re: Creation philosophy

Re: Creation philosophy Perhaps you could explain why the hth attack does not add to her martial attack? I saw nothing in the build that would indicate that. And like you said about opinions, they don't seem to matter to you at least...

Re: Creation philosophy If it was just a '7d6' attack, I doubt if there would be such an uproar...

Re: Creation philosophy I ran the figures on Z'lf myself just now. Here is what I came up with. OR=51 + DR=49 + MR=41 for a total of 141. I used a 16 ocv, 16 dcv (based on overall levels used on ocv and martial strike), 14 dc (assuming martial strike with +4hth w/+1/2 var adv in multipower), 5 different types of attack (hth, ma's, nnd, ha, eb), 9 spd, 20" movement, 4 types of movement (significant leap, run, teleport, swimming) 12 pd/ep 8 resistant, 29 stun, 45 pts of missile refelct and 10pts of regen. These are all based on active points. I guess these 2 questions remain: Is she balanced for her campaign? I have no doubt about that. To many people posting here stating she does work in her campaign. Is she very powerful? Absolutely no doubt with no reservations. If she is running in a very powerful campaign she is no doubt balanced. Anything less and she is one of the most powerful characters in the campaign. edited: should be 14dc, not 17dc. Lowered appropriate ratings.

Re: Creation philosophy I don't think that Z'lf would 'beat the crap' out of Cap. Would she win? Probably. However, my Cap has a base CV of 9 (26dex) with at least 4 8pt combat levels and 4 overall levels. Z'lf still gets to dictate the battle with her 43 dex and 9 spd. I am gonna run her numbers thru. I knew her movement score was going to be outrageous, but I want to double check her OR. To determine how effective a character is going to be against someone, I have found it best to compare OR to DR.

Re: Creation philosophy To determine DC of an attack using that calculator, simply take the active points (including all advantage's) and divide by 5. I didn't write this calculator. I saved the url from a post here on the hero boards. I have found it to be fairly accurate in determining a characters effectiveness.

Re: Creation philosophy It means she is pretty damn powerful. My 6spd/80str/40def/80stun martial brick's total was about 135 with OR=41 DR=66 MR=27. Most 350-400 point characters should be in the 110ish to 130ish range. Anymore than a 10 point difference in a category (OR/DR/MR) means that your character is either outclassed or outclasses a character in that category. However, from the write-up posted here she would not like my brick very much. Most MA's don't like fighting bricks. If she did not make a tactical mistake she might be able to take my brick out, but since my def outclasses her offense by so much, she might not be able to do sufficient damage before I connected with her. What makes her so insanely good, imo, is the fact she has 43 dex/9spd with 30" of movement.

Re: Creation philosophy And here is a sample of my MA: Black Lotus Player: Jerry Ogburn Val** Char*** Cost 35** STR 25 38** DEX 84 33** CON 46 15** BODY 10 18** INT 8 20** EGO 20 20** PRE 10 10** COM 0 * 16** PD 0 16** ED 0 7** SPD 22 14** REC 0 66** END 0 50** STUN 0 *9"**RUN62"**SWIM07"**LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 231 Cost** Power END 18** Armor (9 PD/9 ED) (27 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 7** Radio Perception/Transmission (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 5** Gliding 12" (12 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Noncombat Movement (-1/4)* 3** Infrared Perception (5 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 7** Life Support , Self-Contained Breathing (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 3** Life Support , Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat (4 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 6** +6 Mental Defense (10 points total)* 5** Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (20 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 5 Minutes (-1 3/4), Self Only (-1/2), Always On (-1/2)* Powers Cost: 54 Cost** Martial Arts Maneuver 4** Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +5d6 Strike* 5** Offensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +7d6 Strike* 3** Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +3d6 +v/5, Target Falls* 4** Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort* 4** Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort* 12** +3 HTH Damage Class(es)* Martial Arts Cost: 32 Cost** Skill 3** Acrobatics 17-* 3** Stealth 17-* 3** Interrogation 13-* 3** Streetwise 13-* 3** Security Systems 13-* 3** Criminology 13-* 3** Shadowing 13-* 3** AK: Japan (INT-based) 13-* 3** KS: Eastern/Martial Philosophy (INT-based) 13-* 3** SS: Botany (INT-based) 13-* 3** Language: Japanese (fluent conversation; literate)* 20** +4 with HTH Combat* 20** +2 Overall* Skills Cost: 73 Cost** Perk 5** Money: Well Off* Perks Cost: 5 Total Character Cost: 395 Val** Disadvantages 15** Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major* 10** Psychological Limitation: Vigilante Common, Moderate* 10** Psychological Limitation: Overconfident Common, Moderate* 15** Psychological Limitation: Protects Innocents (Common; Strong)* 20** Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total* 10** Enraged: Innocent Hurt (Common), go 8-, recover 14-* 15** Susceptibility: End Drain 3d6 damage, Instant, Uncommon* 10** Vulnerability: 2x Effect End Drain Uncommon* 10** Hunted: Law Enforcement 11- (Frequently), As Powerful, Watching, Extensive Non-Combat Influence* 25** Hunted: Organization 11-, More Powerful, Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence* 15** Hunted: Villian 11- (Frequently), As Powerful, Harshly Punish* Disadvantage Points: 155 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 40 Total Experience Available: 40 Experience Unspent: 0

Re: Creation philosophy Run her thru this combat rating system: http://www.trimira.com/hero_stuff/combat_rating.html# Let's see how she stacks up here.

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill? Unless it's a very dark campaign, it is very frowned upon in my neck of the woods. Killing for a superhero should be a matter of absolute last resort.

Re: Lightning Reflexes.....is it worth it? I agree with this assessment. I guess the +7 did throw me off. I do believe that a few levels of Lightning Reflexes along with couple of Combat Skill levels are appropriate to represent training. My whole point was if you are buying lots of them to represent 'abilities', then you should probably buy up your base dex.

Re: Lightning Reflexes.....is it worth it? I can see this with a limited buy up of Lightning Reflexes. But, IMO, you are buying Lightning Reflexes along with Combat Skill Levels to represent someone with a significantly higher dex, are you not reflecting the justification of a higher dex in and of itself?