Force

Re: Costs END Only to Activate So your solution would be to effectively eliminate CEOTA?

Basically, it's where you have a multipower that can only change slots under certain limited circumstances. This came up in a discussion thread in the Hero System Discussion. It's a similar question to this one I found answered here in the FAQ: The burning question is whether the limitation (each slot can only be switched either in a lab or take extra time to switch slots - but neither example given applies to the power itself) is applied to the pool cost or just to the cost of each slot? Your answer didn't address this: Thanks in advance!

Re: Multipower, Hard to Switch Slots For an example: Are saying that you would not let anyone take a 14- or less activation roll on their mp pool and only allow that limitation to be taken on each individual slot?

Re: Costs END Only to Activate Then please explain to me why if they are both a +1/2 Advantage that costs 0 End would not be 'under priced" when Costs End to Activate is also a +1/2 Advantage?

Re: Multipower, Hard to Switch Slots Sounds like you have an issue with mp's in general, rather than whether a limitation should be applied to the pool or the slots only.

Re: Multipower, Hard to Switch Slots

Re: Costs END Only to Activate Sounds like you think Zero End Cost is under priced as well as Costs End Only to Activate.

Re: Spiderman Vs. Firelord Look, it's quite simple. Build Firelord. Build Spidey. Duke it out. Firelord should wipe the floor with Spidey.

Re: A new idea for how to handle VPP's Excellent idea!!!!

Re: EC AN (Ad Nauseam) But is this option better built using limitations instead of a power framework?

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him! Because when he was very young and Mephisto was hurting 'Mommy and Daddy', he simply thought/wished away 'the bad man' who is marvel's example of the biblical devil. That bad azz enough for ya?

Re: Could your Champions character beat... I have 3 characters that I primarily play. One is a powered suit character, Force. It would be interesting. If I went all defensive, Cap would have a hard time hurting me. If I tried to shoot Cap and missed, well it wouldn't be pretty. Here is Force: Force Player: Val** Char*** Cost 15** STR 5 24** DEX 12 28** CON 6 15** BODY 10 18** INT 8 11** EGO 2 20** PRE 10 10** COM 0 * 33** PD 0 33** ED 0 5** SPD 26 8** REC 4 26** END 0 46** STUN 16 *7"**RUN22"**SWIM03"**LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 101 Cost** Power END 17** Endurance Reserve (150 END, 10 REC) (25 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 25** ElectroMagnetic Field: Elemental Control, 74-point powers, all slots: (37 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 26** 1) Flight 23", x4 Noncombat, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (76 Active Points)* 25** 2) Force Field (30 PD/30 ED), Reduced Endurance Half END (+1/4) (75 Active Points) (uses END Reserve)* 3 47** Field Projectors: Multipower, 70-point reserve, all slots: (70 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 5u** 1) Force Beam: Energy Blast 14d6 (vs. PD) (70 Active Points) (uses END Reserve)* 7 5u** 2) Projected Force Field: Force Wall (14 PD/14 ED) (70 Active Points) (uses END Reserve)* 7 5u** 3) Force Bubble: Entangle 4d6, 10 DEF (70 Active Points) (uses END Reserve)* 7 5u** 4) Tachyon Pulse: Energy Blast 7d6 (vs. ED), No Normal Defense Standard (+1) (70 Active Points) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: Only vs FF]* 7 15** Inertial Dampening Field: +15 CON (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)* 20** Servos: +10 DEX (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 8** High Range Radio Perception (12 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 7** Life Support , Self-Contained Breathing (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 4** Life Support , Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat (6 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 2** Alpha Wave Dampnening Field: +10 Mental Defense (12 points total) (10 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 5x END (-2), Costs Endurance Costs END Every Phase (-1/2), Linked to Force Field (-1/2) (uses END Reserve)* 5 Powers Cost: 216 Cost** Skill 3** Inventor 13-* 3** Electronics 13-* 3** Cryptography 13-* 3** Security Systems 13-* 3** Systems Operation 13-* 3** Computer Programming 13-* 3** SS: Physics (INT-based) 13-* 3** SS: Cybernetics (INT-based) 13-* 3** SS: Field Theory (INT-based) 13-* 3** SS: Electrical Engineer (INT-based) 13-* 15** +5 W/Multipower* 20** +2 Overall* Skills Cost: 65 Cost** Perk 10** Money: Wealthy* 3** Computer Link* Perks Cost: 13 Total Character Cost: 395 Val** Disadvantages 20** Hunted: Villian 8- (Occasionally), As Powerful, Harshly Punish, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Extensive Non-Combat Influence* 25** Hunted: Organization 8- (Occasionally), More Powerful, Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find* 15** Enraged: Innocent Injured/Hurt (Common), go 8-, recover 11-* 15** Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major* 10** Reputation: Scientist Frequently (11-)* 20** Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total* 15** Psychological Limitation: Protects Innocents Common, Strong* 15** Psychological Limitation: Overconfident Common, Strong* 20** Normal Characteristic Maxima* Disadvantage Points: 155 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 40 Total Experience Available: 40 Experience Unspent: 0 I think my combat monster brick, Colussus could take him: Colussus Player: Val** Char*** Cost 55/80** STR 45 20** DEX 30 43** CON 66 20** BODY 20 13** INT 3 14** EGO 8 20** PRE 10 10** COM 0 * 10/40** PD -1 10/40** ED 1 6** SPD 30 20** REC 0 86** END 0 80** STUN 10 *7"**RUN22"**SWIM011"/16"**LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 224 Cost** Power END 15** Gravity Field: Elemental Control, 30-point powers* 15** 1) Flight 15" (30 Active Points)* 3 15** 2) Force Field (10 PD/10 ED), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (30 Active Points)* 16** 3) Density Increase (3200 kg mass, +25 STR, +5 PD/ED, -5" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (31 Active Points)* 2 45** Dense Skin: Armor (15 PD/15 ED)* 3** Life Support , Safe in High Pressure, Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum* 15** Gravitic Awareness: Spatial Awareness (22 Active Points); Costs Endurance Costs END Every Phase (-1/2)* 2 17** +17 Mental Defense (20 points total)* 10** Power Defense (10 points)* Powers Cost: 151 Cost** Martial Arts Maneuver 5** Defensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +3 DCV, STR Strike* 4** Fast Strike: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike* 4** Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort* 5** Sacrifice Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike* 5** Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +v/5; FMove* Martial Arts Cost: 23 Cost** Skill 3** Oratory 13-* 3** KS: Computer OS (INT-based) 12-* 3** PS: Computer Operator (INT-based) 12-* 3** Teamwork 13-* 25** +5 with HTH Combat* Skills Cost: 37 Cost** Perk 5** Money: Well Off* Perks Cost: 5 Total Character Cost: 440 Val** Disadvantages 20** Hunted: Villian 11- (Frequently), As Powerful, Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence* 25** Hunted: Anti-Mutant Organization 8- (Occasionally), More Powerful, Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find* 25** Hunted: Aliens 14- (Very Frequently), More Powerful, Watching, Extensive Non-Combat Influence, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find* 20** Psychological Limitation: Protects Innocents Common, Total* 15** Psychological Limitation: Loyal to Team Common, Strong* 10** Psychological Limitation: Overconfident Common, Moderate* 15** Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major* 15** Distinctive Features: Large Size/Skin Not Concealable, Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses* 5** Distinctive Features: Mutant Physiology Concealable, Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Uncommonly-Used Senses* 10** Enraged: Innocent Hurt (Common), go 8-, recover 14-* Disadvantage Points: 160 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 80 Total Experience Available: 120 Experience Unspent: 40 I doubt if my martial artist, Black Lotus could take him: Black Lotus Player: Val** Char*** Cost 35** STR 25 38** DEX 84 33** CON 46 15** BODY 10 18** INT 8 20** EGO 20 20** PRE 10 10** COM 0 * 16** PD 0 16** ED 0 7** SPD 22 14** REC 0 66** END 0 50** STUN 0 *9"**RUN62"**SWIM07"**LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 231 Cost** Power END 18** Armor (9 PD/9 ED) (27 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 7** Radio Perception/Transmission (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 5** Gliding 12" (12 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Noncombat Movement (-1/4)* 3** Infrared Perception (5 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 7** Life Support , Self-Contained Breathing (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 3** Life Support , Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat (4 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)* 6** +6 Mental Defense (10 points total)* 5** Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (20 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 5 Minutes (-1 3/4), Self Only (-1/2), Always On (-1/2)* Powers Cost: 54 Cost** Martial Arts Maneuver 4** Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +5d6 Strike* 5** Offensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +7d6 Strike* 3** Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +3d6 +v/5, Target Falls* 4** Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort* 4** Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort* 5** Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +3d6 +v/5; FMove* 12** +3 HTH Damage Class(es)* Martial Arts Cost: 37 Cost** Skill 3** Acrobatics 17-* 3** Stealth 17-* 3** Interrogation 13-* 3** Streetwise 13-* 3** Security Systems 13-* 3** Criminology 13-* 3** Shadowing 13-* 3** AK: Japan (INT-based) 13-* 3** KS: Eastern/Martial Philosophy (INT-based) 13-* 3** SS: Botany (INT-based) 13-* 3** Language: Japanese (fluent conversation; literate)* 15** +3 with HTH Combat* 20** +2 Overall* Skills Cost: 68 Cost** Perk 5** Money: Well Off* Perks Cost: 5 Total Character Cost: 395 Val** Disadvantages 15** Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major* 10** Psychological Limitation: Vigilante Common, Moderate* 10** Psychological Limitation: Overconfident Common, Moderate* 15** Psychological Limitation: Protects Innocents (Common; Strong)* 20** Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total* 10** Enraged: Innocent Hurt (Common), go 8-, recover 14-* 15** Susceptibility: End Drain 3d6 damage, Instant, Uncommon* 10** Vulnerability: 2x Effect End Drain Uncommon* 10** Hunted: Law Enforcement 11- (Frequently), As Powerful, Watching, Extensive Non-Combat Influence* 25** Hunted: Organization 11-, More Powerful, Harshly Punish, Extensive Non-Combat Influence* 15** Hunted: Villian 11- (Frequently), As Powerful, Harshly Punish* Disadvantage Points: 155 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 40 Total Experience Available: 40 Experience Unspent: 0 I posted the characters to let you all make your own decisions.

Re: A New Look at Martial Arts I thought you could...

Re: A New Look at Martial Arts So the +'s can only be applied to your ocv/dcv vs hth attacks then? Including the 'base/core' +'s?

Re: A New Look at Martial Arts Doesn't appear to be that way with this system being proposed.

Re: A New Look at Martial Arts Very nice. I don't know if this makes MA's easier, but I think it's a nice generic, flexible system. I don't know if the 4pt cost on additional levels is a high enough cost. I could spend 16pts for +4 levels and get +4 ocv/dcv that is affective vs any attack. Those normally are 8pt skill levels.

Re: YOUR FRIENDS: Cost You Points, or Get You Points? Me too. At least until my wife 'rents' a transform (i.e. wood chipper) and turns me into mulch.

Re: Creation philosophy

Re: Creation philosophy You know agentx, I think I will just leave this thread and hope someone starts one all over.

Re: Creation philosophy But does this really address this?: Or is it the answer to this?

Re: Creation philosophy

Re: Why does the USS Iowa only have a 10 Defense? 10def for an Iowa class BB? Wow. I am speechless. I might see that for the superstructure, but they armored the superstructure during the refits in the 80's. And doesn't the Iowa's have 18 inches of steel on the main belt for armor?

Re: Creation philosophy

Re: Creation philosophy Wow. I should come play with you guys. Of course I have not played champs for 10(?) years. I don't think I step to hard on your schtick, but that is not the point I was trying to make. Would gm's (in general) have problems with characters that are still built on concept but built using 'efficient' numbers. Or is that a mute point with 350pts being the norm? Lot's of folks in my neck of the woods had problems when I had built this character in a 250pt campaign...

Re: Creation philosophy Exactly why I posted Black Lotus. Very few powers taken with limitations (basically the costume) and built using 'efficient' numbers. Black Lotus's xp has been spent on the +4 hth and +2 overall skill levels. My character has taken some skills to show the characters background. Basically a vigilante type. A discussion involving those character builds should prove to be interesting as I think they (hopefully) goto the topic of this thread. So how many folks would have a problem allowing this character in their campaign?