DreadDomain

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

I'm not saying but every book back in print. Yet about 80-90% of the 6E books are out of stock and impossible to get in lgs.

I don't know whereabout you are in Montréal but last time I went there I think le Valet d'Coeur had pretty much everything except for the core book.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44090[/ATTACH]

now that wasn't so hard was it

And HG could still use Champions: The Super Roleplaying Game instead of Champions Complete:p

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

For some reason, the current crop of Champions team members don't grab me visually, neither pre- nor post-Cryptic. I find myself wishing the Champions Universe had a striking, dynamic flagship character that browsers at the LGS would immediately recognize and identify with the game and the setting. Someone like Superman or Batman for DC, or Spider-Man for Marvel.

 

I guess I wish they had brought Vanguard back.

Ditto!

But without the 70's haircut!

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Not sure though if it will get enough of the fanbase who are happy enough with 5E and the original 6E core. We gamers are notorioulsy cheap when it comes to spending.

As an aside here I would say "not all of us". Upon reading that HERO Games was downsizing I went to the store and bought for about 250$ as a show of support. Your point is still valid though as it is difficult to say what proportion lies in the "cheap" category and how much in the "take my money" category.

Still, doing this book is the best idea in a long time for HERO. People have been clamoring for quite a bit for this (Derek included) and having HG listen is a breath of fresh air. Derek has decided to walk the talk by actually doing the heavy lifting and I hope the supporters will put their money were their mouth are.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

PDF's are Cheap but PDF's suck. Go Book or Bust. PDF's are nice as an add on or a tag-along, but until they come up with a Book Sized PDF Reader that doesn't cost Paychecks, they won't replace books, and I'll stick with Paper regardless for reasons threads long about PDF's.

 

CC is a Pretty darn good deal considering what it contains and what it replaces even with the reservations I have about it. Hence, Buying a Pile of them. Out of that Pile MAY be one PDF, just because.

But you won't have to make that choice since the book comes with a free PDF right?

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Hi Memorax,

I guess we just sopke on the SJGamesforum:)

I am a naysayer about this but a cautcious nayer. I can see the reason for them doing this. Yet I'm not sure if reprinting the same book twice with less material will do the trick. Time will tell and I'm hoping to bne wrong.

Actually,it's more like they are responding to request frommany fans that HERO should be done in a less wordy/more condensed/less example heavy/trying to cover every cornersand loopholes type of format. What they seem to aim for is a book more in line with Champions 4th (the Big Blue Book) format with all the refinements of HERO6th. I am myself very grateful they listened to the fans. 6E1 and 2 will still be available in PDF as "reference books".

I would like to see color art in the book yet B&W is gooed enough for me. That being said though the at has to be spectular and no expense spared. If your not going color then it needs to stand out from Mutant and Masterminds and DC Adventures which are both imo visually stunning books.

I agree with you that to stand up there against the competition, a color book would be better but it won't happen because it seems uneconomical.

I alos hope that the sales of champions Complete allows them to reprint a bunch of out of print 6E material. Yes we have the Pdfs yet not everyone is a fan of PDF. For something say like Champs Powers it's something that is imo easier to go through in print than pdf. As well as the 6E of CU has to come back into print. A core book referencing Champopns and the background book is no longer in print. Just not a good move imo. I'm also going to assume that if CC is going to be the flagship line that we will see at least some 5E villian organizations books translated to 6E. At least one hopes eventually. Imo it's not a great selling point when you have a newer version of a product and you keep telling people to use an older verison of say the 5E Viper book. No matter how easy it is to convert. Your trying imo to get more sales for 6E. Not more sales for 5E no matter how good the product is. I have both 5E and 6E books and would rather use 6E. Not convert 5E books. I don't have the time or willigness to do so. I might as well stick with 5E then. Still want to remain positive somwhat and CC will get alookthrough at least by me. If you can get them into stores so much the better too.

Looking at the online store Champions Powers, Champions Universe, Champions Villains 1, 2 and 3 (actually 3 is getting printed now) and Book of the Empress seems to be all in print. Only Champions is missing. I agree it would be nice to see Viper, Argent and UNTIL though.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

That's too bad' date=' I like the cosmic stuff best. [/quote']

 

Don't Champions Beyond and Book of the Empress help scratch that itch? Or do you mean "cosmic" as over the top powerful?

 

Okay' date=' so for a new player, what would be the best starting setup for gaming in the Champions universe? I'm assuming Champions Complete, of course, and Champions Universe and whatever else? What do you recommend? [/quote']

 

After these two books I'd say Champions Powers if you want tons of predefine powers (may speed up character creation quite a bit) and the Villains book if you want and extensive rogue gallery to draw from.

 

The third tier mostly depends on what you want the game to focus on. Book of the Empress, Book of the Machine and Book of the Destroyer (the last two published under 5th but setting wise it's up to date) for even more depth on master villains and Beyond for supers in space. On top of it there is a lot of useful books published under 5th (including Galactic Champions) that are mostly 90-95% useable.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Oops' date=' I see how I gave you that impression, but let me be more clear: Unless something changes due to space constraints or something, there [b']will[/b] be a character sheet in the book. I just meant that (A) I was probably the wrong person to ask for suggestions on how to best change the existing sheet, since I never use them, and ( I lobbied against including one, because I don't think that many people use them anymore (at least, not by photocopying blank sheets from the book). But I lobbied unsuccessfully for that, and the intent is to include one.

Sorry, actually you were clear the first time around. I just jumped to conclusion. Bad me, Bad!

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

I just have to laugh at the community sometimes. We all gripe and moan for years about the lack of color in Hero System books and say how it's hurting sales of the books. When Steve finally caves in and gives us a rulesbook that is chock full of full color artwork and full color layouts, we complain about how long the books are and how much they cost.

 

So now we complain about the length of the books and the cost. So Derek works hard to get 6e1, 6e2 and Champions Genre edited down to 240pgs (less than the beloved BBB) and gets the cost down to $40. Which makes Champions one of the best Crunchy RPG value on the market bar none. So what do we do? We complain about possible missing stuff and lack of color art.

Hang on, I haven’t seen anyone complaining here. I think it is only natural that people supporting an upcoming products will throw around ideas, comments and questions with the goal of improving the product. I think that we all understand that whatever is put forward here has probably already being considered and rejected for good reasons. So why are people throwing ideas? Ok, I won’t speak for “people” but myself I am sometime just to make sure some small matter hasn’t been oversighted. You know, I’d be very worried if the only discussion in this thread would be about how we are thankful to Derek (which we are). I’d see it as lukewarm interest at best. This is the HERO community darn it, everyone has an opinion and loves the system enough to put it forward for consideration !

We can't have it both ways. If we want color artwork and hard cover books' date=' we need to be willing to spend $60 or so for a book. Hero is a small company they don't have the sales to make the Core books a Loss Leader like WoTC or Paizo can. [/quote'] Actually, I don’t want it both ways. I’d shell $80 for a full colour hardback of Champions Complete but I would NEVER advocate for such a scheme as in my opinion it is an absolutely not viable option.

 

So lets get positive and start thanking Derek for all of his hard work. An inexpensive book is just the thing we need right now to get people to try the system.

 

So thanks Derek!! I for one can't wait to get the new book and I hope this leads to more Rules+Genre book goodness in the future.

 

I already said as much in a previous mail but I don’t believe being thankful precludes throwing opinions in the air. At the same time I believe that having some people feel they have to jump in “defence” of the book against so called naysayer IS also healthy. It shows that people care. So far though I haven’t seen even a doubter on this thread let alone a naysayer.

 

Actually' date=' it's pretty interesting. Almost all the comments that I'm seeing aren't based on what people want for themselves but what they think will make the product better. People talk about color not because they want to look at color pictures but because they think it will make the game more marketable. My own comments aren't based on the fact that I have a problem with all the optional rules or that I find character generation particularly difficult. I've been making characters for years and have used pretty much all the optional rules at one time or another. Instead they are based on what I think would make the game more accessible to new players.[/quote']

 

This. I find acronyms like DMCV add an unnecessary level of opaqueness to newcomers and I believe that the Abrams Tank having an obviously wrong weight take away a bit of credibility to the table but in no way does it change my desire to get the book.

 

 

To the Person who wants a new character sheet. Perhaps they could lay one out and donate it to the community.

 

And, assuming I am this person, this is a perfect example of what esampson is saying. I don’t want a new character sheet. I don’t even use the character sheet because I use HERO Designer. The only reason I suggested it could be tweaked is because a lot (or at least some) people will look at the character sheet of a game to give them an advance idea of a system. Does it look cool, functional, complicated, organised, etc… The official character sheet, I’ll say it again, looks very good except that when you look at it, or when you look at an official write-up in any HERO book for that matter, the long list of characteristics make the game look more complicated than it is especially since past PRE :

 

1) Most characteristics are acronyms that might not be self evident to a newcomer

2) Most characteristics are duplicated in another functional section on the sheet.

 

So my point is it might only need a slight reshuffling and the character write-ups in the book could organise the characteristics section a bit better instead of being shown as a seemingly long list of characteristics.

 

I’d be happy to give it a go myself if only I had a working copy of the sheet and the appropriate software to modify it but since Derek was mentioning he believed no sheet would be included in the book, the point is probably moot

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Megaplaboy, I hear what you say and I agree with it BUT having a bunch of excited guys jumping around and asking questions and throwing wishful thinking is not a bad thing in my opinion. I haven't seen a single negative post so far only inquisitive or "daddy can I have that too!" kind of posts (yep, refering to my posts there).

Here is another one that I just thought. Assuming there will be a Vehicle list in the book would it be possible to correct the weights of some vehicle? I don't have it around but I remember that they were only based on size of the vehicle instead of being adjusted to realistic weights (so tanks were way too lights).

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Similar in concept' date=' but different in execution. The Superhero Gallery is a useful quick character-generator, but its sheer length precludes putting it in [i']Champions Complete.[/i] The new book approaches it by discussing "sets" of abilities commonly taken together for various Special Effects, backgrounds, or concepts. The character archetypes then refer to these "sets" when talking about typical characters of that archetype. So it's less of a literal plug-and-play character builder, and more of a freeform guideline to help players associate game mechanics with character concepts.

 

For example, one of the sub-types of the Brick character archetype is:

 

AQUATIC

 

[Heavy Snip]

So it's not a full-blown character template exactly, but if you took all the abilities it mentions, you'd be well on your way to building a character who feels like a classic Aquatic Brick.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

My past writing for Hero Games includes Vibora Bay and Champions Battlegrounds' date=' and I was one of the folks who provided input for 5ER and 6E as part of the "5ER Five" and "SETAC," respectively. I've been a Champions/HERO System player and an active participant in the Hero community for about 25 years. [/quote']

 

Well the last part I knew about (not the number of years though) but I never realised you wrote Part of VB and CB (both on my shelf). I guess I should go take a look and read them again!

 

I don't think this has been written in stone yet.

 

I actually consider it is a pretty good sheet but the long list of characteristics (top left) just make it look complicated. Having only 6 characteristics and all the others in their functional blocks make the sheet look less complex and more organised. I'd say that if the presentation of the book change a bit to make it more condense/concise/easy to reference/organised, a look should be taken at the character sheet as well. How many people crack open a book straight to the character sheet to get a first feeling of the game?

 

Vanilla HERO. As Jason has noted elsewhere, one of the intentions is for Champions Complete to be able to take the place of 6E1, 6E2, Champions, and Basic in the Hero Games product line, so it essentially serves as the core rulebook, in addition to a superhero genre book.

 

This reinforce my preference to have a coloured interior. Sure the cost might be higher to produce but I thought part of the deal with Cryptic was to have access to there library of concept art? Not sure if the library is substantial or if the drawings are of quality. It’s probably too late at this point anyway. I wonder if a Kickstarter specifically to cover the extra cost for a colour version would have been possible (KS succeed= full colour version; KS fail=B&W interior).

 

Oh well, only speculation anyway.

 

No. The Heroic-level rules are still included. Everything is treated with less extensive detail than it was in 6E1 and 6E2 (that was probably the primary design goal), and the Heroic rules are perhaps condensed even more than the Superheroic rules are. But they're in there. (After all, not all comic book stories are about superheroes... )

 

Cool. Any change to the Hit Location Chart or the STUN multiplier rolls (RE “Killing attack in 6E” thread)?  (Half-kidding here)

 

No. Every game has its jargon. (Pathfinder certainly has plenty, and that doesn't seem to stop anyone from playing that... ) Of course, they are all explained.

True. Personally, the only ones I cannot stand are OMCV and DMCV. Four letters acronym are a bit much (I would have preferred OMV and DMV). Like I said, anything else I consider totally acceptable jargon and I hope non-HEROphiles would agree.

 

Will the Champions be featured in the book or all the characters will be originals??

 

Is “Champions Complete” really evocative enough as a title? Unfortunately, what would have been a perfect title for the book “Champions : The Super Roleplaying Game” was already given to the genre book. I ask because the title doesn’t strike me with a “wow! I want to play this game!” feeling. Not that I have anything better to offer though.

 

Champions Core or Champions Core Roleplaying Game or Champions Complete Roleplaying Game? Might sound better than just Complete.

Champions Homestead or Champions HQ? You know, a new home for Champions.

Champions and Villains? Champions and Sidekicks? Too much like M&M?

Champions Classic or Champions the Classic Roleplaying Game? Would probably confuse people with previous editions.

Champions Deluxe? I am not a fan of the “deluxe” appellation personally. Espacially for a B&W book.

The New Champions ? People might expect a team with different members in it.

Champions of Millenium City ? Might be confused with Champions the New Millenium.

 

Well, I might not have anything spectacular but I am pretty sure that something better than “Complete” can be found.

 

Oh and one last thing, no matter the title, the interior or what not, thank you for doing this book.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

The ultimate super roleplaying game returns to reclaim its crown in *Champions Complete!* All the legendary flexibility and power of the renowned *HERO System* rules engine, plus all the superhero goodness *Champions* has been famous for over 30 years, now in one pulse-pounding, senses -shattering, heroic handbook of superpowered action!

 

At 240 pages, *Champions Complete* includes everything superhero gamers need, and nothing they don't. New players will love the unmatched freedom of *Champions* that allows them to create and play exactly the hero they imagine. Longtime fans will appreciate the tight, concise new approach, presenting the full game system in a fraction of its former length.

 

HERO System 6^th Edition

978-1-58366-145-1

HERO2000

Author: Derek Hiemforth

Cover: Sam R. Kennedy

Layout: Ruben Smith Zempel

PDF: $20.00

Print: $40.00

Print+PDF: $40.00

240pp B&W interior with color softcover.

PDF will be made available with every retail purchase via Bits and Mortar

Look for Champions Complete in Fall of 2012!

Put me an the "Hell yea!" camp. This is an insta-buy for me. As a writer, Derek is unknown to me as is Ruben. As for Sam, I'd like a more vivid piece than was done for Beyond. I like the cover of Beyond except for Star*Guard himself which I think looks funny-weird. The whole concept is great IMHO and my only reservation is about interior B&W. All the current super games are in color so reclaiming the crown would most likely require a similar treatment. Even more so if Champions Complete is the new core book.

A couple of questions/requests :

1) Will the character sheets be reworked. There is a lot of duplication on the first page (mostly all the characteristics except the 6 basic ones are listed twice) and as such I think it would help make the sheet look simpler by keeping the former derived in the appropriate (combat, defense,etc...) sections.

2) Will Champions Complete use 100% vanilla HERO or will it make some assumptions based on toolkitting or Advanced Player's Guides rules (DEX cost 1pt, HAP, Disadvantages don't give back points but give back HAP when uses in game, whatever you judge would be beneficial to simulate comic books)?

3) Will it completely omit stuff not usually used in Champions games (Hit Location chart, Disabling/Impairing rules,etc...)?

4) Will it change/revise/update rules that you might find needs it since 6E was released?

5) Will you try to eliminate jargon that newcomer might find too opaque? As a long time HERO gamer I kind of fail to see which expressions would be the offenders but I guess OCV/DCV/OMCV/DMCV might be ones?

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Now I'm curious about the other genres. Jason' date=' will there be a corresponding Fantasy Hero Complete, Star Hero Complete, and so forth? Will we see "mini-complete" versions of the other genre books, perhaps coupled with a setting each?[/quote']

 

Maybe not the same but I think Narosia will be a complete RPG so it might stand for somekind of FH Complete I guess.

Re: TUALA MORN -- Interested In More Stuff?

These two concerns' date=' with all due respect, don't bother me in the slightest. [/quote']

 

It always feel good as a customer when an author tells you he doesn't care about your concerns

 

It's a derivitate of one of the Roman names for Paris that I tracked down somewhere.

Sure but is still sounds ugly to my francophone ears

 

But I likes 'em and I'm stickin' with 'em.

But of course and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The map is done, the book is written, changing names now would be asking for trouble.

Re: TUALA MORN -- Interested In More Stuff?

Aaaaaand done! Aside from my checking over the math and giving it all one final read-over' date=' [i']Acquitaine[/i] is completed! Depending on how things go I may be able to start laying it out next week.

Looking forward to it. Just looked at the map and I can see three annoyances though.

1) The use of direct real name. That was kind of expected looking at Tuala Morn and the very name of this supplement but...

2) Coupled with the fact they are not even placed at the "right" place geographically, it's a bit annoying.

3) The name of the capital. It just doesn't sound right with all the rest of the names which are French derivative.

Re: StrikeForce for Champions

It's basically a compendium of a really well run Champions campaign. So the PCs are well thought out' date=' with lots of background and history, and they show how the characters were built both at the start of the campaign at how they looked at the end of it. Lots of narrative of how things played out in the campaign and why. Discussion about player interaction issues that came up during the campaign and how they handled them. And some house rules along with the reasons for them. Even though it's a bit out of date now, it's still an excellent learn-by-example sourcebook.[/quote']

Intriguing! Sounds like good stuff. Thanks.

Re: StrikeForce for Champions

If you've already bought it' date=' read it. [/quote']

Sir! Yes Sir! I would if I had it but I just ordered it so I will have to wait a bit.

 

Aaron Allston wrote it about his own campaign that he was running. Loads of characters, how they interact with one-other. In some cases why they act that way.

 

Just a lot of good ideas with strong writing and a lot of thought behind how it works.

Ok thanks, will read it as soon as it arrives.

Re: StrikeForce for Champions

It's one of the best campaign manuals ever for the superhero genre.

Would someone care to elaborate what is so great about it?

Re: Stratospheric Punch for 6E

Megascale turns any power into a noncombat power - so unless the person sits still for it' date=' youare almost certainly goinf to miss.[/quote']

 

Which may be not that bad since a Stratospheric Punch could be a good follow-up after someone has been stunned. Or rather Stratospheric Punch should not be an option unless someone is almost helpless (surprised, stunned and the like).

Re: StrikeForce for Champions

Noble Knight Games currently has a copy.

Hey thanks! I'm not the OP but I went there anyway and bought some stuff I wanted for a while like Strikeforce and Watcher of the Dragons. I have no clue what is so great about Strikeforce but since it seems like everyone is raving about it...

Re: The Fires of Heaven now in store

For some reason the bundle is available but both the book and PDF still are. Any chance it will become available again?

Re: So Easy Even A Nine-Year-Old Can Do It!

Thanks guys! Like I said, it was a lot of fun and the girls seemed to enjoy themselves.

 

Here's a link to where I posted my Titans charsheets:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/89685-Hero-GUI?p=2332424#post2332424

I just realized the Kid Flash sheet isn't there though. Any chance you could share?

Re: So Easy Even A Nine-Year-Old Can Do It!

A local gaming podcast and FLGS hosted a game day last Saturday' date=' and they invited me to run a game. This was a charity event for the Rocky Mountain Raptor Society. I ended up running a [i']Teen Titans Go![/i] adventure, using Hero 6e. It's a game I've run for many years, making my own adventures based on the long-running cartoon series.

 

Anyway, this session I played host to not one, not two, but three 9-year-old girls! They were huge fans of the cartoon and were very, very excited to play. Two of them had their favorite characters (Starfire and Raven), and the third wanted to play Kid Flash ("Because he's the fastest of all!").

 

The game was very successful (apparently the kids raved about it to their parents for the rest of the day). I cut the game a bit short, ending it after about 2.5 hours, because attention spans were starting to wander. So I just tossed the big baddie at them and let them have fun. They ended up teaming up and basically one-shotting him. They were so happy and proud that their plan worked, they wouldn't stop talking about it!

 

I believe that I earned my GM's Stripes that day.

 

 

Wow! That's cool!!

Re: Cryptic Concept Art for Nighthawk

Thanks Scott, I like it!