DreadDomain

I played in a GURPS Fantasy campaign for a few years in the early 90s and the system did not feel any better suited to the genre than any other I'd played. It was less fun than AD&D, at least for me, despite having a more logical framework underneath it. I think it was the system's realism bias that turned me off the most. I would have preferred AD&D or Fantasy Hero over GURPS Fantasy, but our GM was a GURPS fanboy so the choice of system wasn't really up for debate.

I'm the total opposite. Over the years I've played The Dark Eye, Pendragon, RuneQuest, Stormbringer, Talislanta, Fantasy HERO, Warhammer, Rolemaster/MERP, AD&D, Harnmaster and probably others I have forgotten, but the system I have enjoyed the most for Fantasy (both as player and GM) is GURPS. We've had grim and gritty campaigns where combat was deliciously visceral and dangerous and others high powered, cinematic epics.

Sorry to learn that. Best of luck Hyper-Man

Modules serve several useful functions for consumers. They provide novice GMs with a mean of learning their role. They provide structure to GMs looking to build their own scenarios. They provide a fall-back for GMs who don't have the spare time necessary to build a scenario from scratch, or who need something to run as filler while they finish a homebrewed scenario.

 

Scenarios are also best when they introduce new characters, vilains and organizations, describe locations, include equipment, widgets and MacGuffins. Unless it is very specific to the scenario, I am less keen when they add new rules but all of the other examples, might boost interest in the book for gm and players alike and provide hooks and leads for a longer term campaign.

4th had a few good supplements like that.

Just so you folks are aware, we're looking at releasing much of the setting material on a Wiki-style platform and publishing updated characters, stories and such in new books. The books would be meatier with lots of usable in-game goodness (art, stats, adventures, etc.).

 

The Wiki would be a highly detailed resource for those who want to delve deeper into the backstory and the setting. One of the things I like about the Wiki idea is that it would allow GMs and players to use it during the game (on smartphones, tablets, etc.). We're posting quite a bit of content on the beta. Once we have the bulk of the material up that we want to release, we'll open it up for fans to participate. We're planning to license all of the text on the Wiki under the CC-BY-NC-ND.

Long time no see! Exciting stuff. What system will be used for the relaunch of SA:CoH if any?

The best games we've had were with 4 players. In a comic book, I prefer 7 or 8 members.

To my post you replied:

Probably? You make me sad. 

Well, I am backing the KS so let's call it highly probable?

At the end of the day all it really comes down to is that some folks don't like ECs (and probably never did), and some folks do (like me). They probably don't see any value in incentivising players to build characters that are tightly themed (by whatever definition makes sense to them). Like I mentioned earlier, my solution is to simply re-instate ECs into my own campaigns. It's easy to do. It's just a pain to have to pull the rules from an earlier edition to do so. It's also one more reason why I am inclined to stick with 4e, with a smattering of things cherry-picked from 5e, and just pretend 6e never happened.

Personally, I loved EC and was using it extensively. However, I believe Unified Powers just work better and is way easier to use as a tool to incentivise players to build characters that are tightly themed. The same goes for figured characteristics. I absolutely loved them and was shocked when I learnt they would go. Without them, it is now so much easier to build the character you want.

In the end, I had to admit dropping EC and Figured Characteristics were good ideas for 6e. So no, it doesn't (only) come down to folks who don't like ECs and probably never did.

That being said, absolutely reinstate them in your game! I would be tempted to do it just for tghe fun of it.

Maybe I'm off in the weeds here, but I thought of a further elaboration of my attempt, above:

 

Hero System is a traditional role-playing game which offers a complete RPG toolkit in its core ruleset. That core toolkit can be used to mechanically define any type of character or object based on its effect in the game world, and although it defaults to cinematic play, can be used to play in any genre and with any level of realism. Hero System hides nothing, exposing everything to the user so that nothing beyond the core rulebook is needed.

 

I feel this both defines Hero and lists the ways in which it differs from Fate, Savage Worlds, GURPS, and the rest.

Something else to consider, and I am not sure how to convey it properly, HERO strikes a balance between consistency of mechanics while keeping the individual flavour of the sub-systems. To express it differently, in HERO, various sub-systems have different flavours. Martial Arts, Presence attacks, Mental powers, all feel distinct in their application and how they impact the game. In other games (Mutants & Masterminds, Fate, Heroquest, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, etc...), they are merely trappings with a very high level of mechanical sameyness. At the same type, in HERO, they do retain a high level of cohesion and balance in the sense that they follow the same mechanical logic (roll versus target, roll effect, deduct defense, apply effect) and seamlessly integrate together. In contrast, a game like GURPS have very distinct sub-systems (magic, imbuement, martial arts, powers, tech, ritual magic, etc) that are highly individualized. They do not necessarily balance well together and a high level of gm overview is required to combine them in the same game.

A selection of "Wild Inaccuracies" within The Widening Gyre:

....

 

 

Ouch... a revised edition with the much better Savage World cover perhaps

The Widening Gyre by Bill Keys. For sale here in the Online Store. There are some wild inaccuracies in the Game Elements and Character Sheets presented therein, but the campaign setting itself is quite interesting and well written.

Outside of Hero System... The film ​Steamboy​, the online comic ​Girl Genius.

Wild inaccuracies? Would you care to elaborate?

What is missing in my opinion: Kickstarter, finished text, editing, layout, art, publish

I might earn some hate for this, but here is my attempt at Battletech, Mekton, Armageddon 2089 and Robotech.

 

Be gentle. It is a work in progress.

You have put a lot of work into to! I like it!

Do you mean having them or removing them?  I preferred having them, because recreating them with other Powers is more work than whatever we gained by removing them was worth.  Same with Suppress and 5e Regeneration.  

I mean that removing powers to have them created by other powers (Transfer, Instant Change) or folding them into another power (Gliding, Suppress) were unnecessary simplifications (aka, they were not simplifications).

No, FRED has Transfer in it, 1d6 per 15 points etc as before.

 

I understand why Steve split it out in to two powers for 6th (so you can vary the fade rate between the two effects etc) but it just is a headache and creates a wall of text for a basic concept.  Gliding being folded into flight?  Sure.  This one was a "simplification" too far.

Personally I believe Transfer, Gliding and Instant Change were all unecessary simplifications.

I believe one of the Champions books (6th ed, IIRC) has tables in the back for semi-random characters.

Champions 6E has the Superhero Gallery which is a pick and choose, non-random type charater creation. Steve Long has also published the Expanded Superhero Gallery.

Champions 5E has the Superhuman Quick Generator which is random/semi-random. 

Darren Watts’s Golden Age Champions: I bought it through KS (but still miffed we missed the full colour mark)

Michael Surbrook’s Ghosts, Ghouls, and Golems: Sounds interesting. Probable buy.

Champions Character Creation Cards: Super interesting. Intrigue by how it will work. I still believe the Superhero Gallery in Champions 6E was great and that it should have been in Champions Complete. It should also be availble through Hero Designer. This is a buy.

Danger International: Buy!.

Aaron Allston’s Strike Force Organizations: Buy!

Champions Villains Four: Organizations: Buy! 

Michael Satran’s Imperial Throne: Potential buy.

Invictus! Potential buy.

Jason Walters’s Santa Muerte: Probable buy.

But the game has instant change, it costs three points, what more do you need?

That they don't make it look so damn complicated everytime they put it on a character sheet. I have no problem whatsoever with the way Instant Change is built in 6E but I am annoyed when I see on a published character sheet:

3 Instant Change: cosmetic transform 1d6 (one set of clothing into one costume and vice-versa; method of healing back varies based on character), trigger (changing clothing is a zero phase action, trigger immediately automatically resets; +¾) (5 active points); limited target (the clothes currently worn by character; -½).

Instead of this:

3 Instant Change (one set of clothing into one costume and vice-versa)

It's like DOJ insists to perpetual the meme that HERO is complicated to the extreme. Granted, the real issue here is not Instant Change per say, it's the GUI. More on this below.

The desire for simplicity is a desire for someone else to be making decisions for you, close to anathema for many HERO GMs. :-)

You obviously don't know me. My favorite books on my bookshelves are 6E1, 6E2, APGI, APGII and HSS. I like the power HERO gives my. The possibilities are endless! I am annoyed by unnecessay complexity, even more so when the complexity is only perceived but happily perpetuated. Instant Change is an example of that. Another example is Equipment. More often than not, DOJ makes a point to write something like (from Adventure The Val of Stalla for Fantasy Hero Complete):

War Captain's Spear:

Game Information: HKA 2d6, Armor Piercing (+¼), Area Of Effect (1m Radius, Accurate; +½), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (67 Active Points); OAF (spear; -1) (total cost: 33 CP) plus Reach 3m (total cost: 3 CP) plus Sight Group Images, Area Of Effect (16m Radius; +¾), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (spear; -1), Only To Create Light (-1), No Range (-½) (total cost: 6 CP). Real Cost: 42 CP.

The way to make HERO less complex for players is for GMs to put the work in upfront and create a GUI for their game. All the bits and kit with costs for players that they can pick up and use. HERO has done a lot of this groundwork in quite a few publications and, because this is HERO, you can pick that up and use as is or you can decide it doesn't fit your game, get in behind the builds and tweak to your heart's delight.

You are right, the GUI is important. I participated in the Extreme Earth KS as soon as HERO stats were included. As a long time HERO player, I believe the CS, the GUI, for HERO looks a lot more complicated than the others even though, I know it is not significantly more complicated than the others. DOJ has decided to use a Stat bloc that is very, uh, blocky. From the start, any character looks a bit complex just because of the long list from STR to STUN. A better organization would help. Reduction of hermetic write-ups (Instant Change, equipments), would help. None of this makes HERO more or less complex. A better GUI would make it look simpler (aka no more complicated than it really is).

Another aspect where HERO could decrease complexity is by providing the tools to make powers intuitively. As an example, building Super-Running with Flight is not intuitive.

There is not a whole damn lot that I would change in 6E for a mechanic perspective (and for some changes, I would lokk back at 5ER and even more so at 4E) and I believe 80% of the perceived complexity would fade with a better GUI and sourcebooks that actually make mechanical decisions as opposed to reshowing the engine every times.

EDIT: By the way, apologies but responding to a post a few days old, I am totally out of sync with the current discussion.

Hi DD! I appreciate the concern, but I can tell you I'm working myself to exhaustion posting all over the internet. KS updates only go to the people who've already supported the campaign, and so they're a *lower* priority to posting elsewhere on social media. (That said, this one will be going out there too shortly.) I've got two conventions upcoming, a couple of interviews and at least one podcast hitting in the next ten days. So, I take some exception at the idea that I haven't "shown up."

 

As for posting sheets in other systems, again you're asking for things the kickstarter itself is intended to finance. None of that is done yet.

I wasn't suggesting you were not working hard but simply that the KS page felt... unloved. KS updates are for everyone to see. That being said,I understand posting on other gaming boards might provide greater exposure. Thanks for posting there and for making updates on KS.

As for my suggestion regarding the other systems cs, it was to generate interest from other crowds (I personally don't care about the other systems). If they don't exist, they don't exist.

Good luck with the conventions!

Darren,

I think I failed to make my point. I wasn't asking for an excerpt for me here on the board (but thanks for that). My point is the KS is very slow, earning a few dollars a day, with no comment in a week. Interest needdb to be generated here, on the M&M and SW boards but even more do on KS. How about you post your excerpt as an update? Wait a few days and post the character sheet of one of the characters on the cover? Than another excerpt. Than a M&M sheet? Than how about an update with shipping rates estimate?

My point is the KS needs to be actively supported. If the creators don't bother to show up why would potential backers?

Anyway, apologies about the critics. I really want this to succeed at the hardcover level.

DD

I suspect that ADDING Instant Change as a power would make the game simpler. Consider Instant Change in 6E.

Instant Change: cosmetic transform 1d6 (one set of clothing into one costume and vice-versa; method of healing back varies based on character), trigger (changing clothing is a zero phase action, trigger immediately automatically resets; +¾) (5 active points); limited target (the clothes currently worn by character; -½). total cost: 3 points. (to transform a costume into any clothing, add improved results group (+¼), for 6 active points, total cost 4 points.)

Guys,

I believe this KS needs a bit more love. It is moving ohhhh soooo slowly. More updates would help. More art preview would help. More excerpts would help. Heck, knowing how much shipping will cost would help.

Come on guys, a bit more active support!

Aah, I think I get you now. (You really need more complete sentences, if you're going to go around calling yourself QuestionMan!) Golden Age is a "Low-Powered Supers" setting according to the standards set in 6e1. It doesn't use NCM. Most of the characters have 50-60 AP for their main power, but there's a wide variety there depending on their roles. 

 

And there's a ridiculously-complete list of archetypes and sub-archetypes. I'm not including any definitions here (buy the dang book!) but here's the complete list of archetypes discussed:

 

I. Bricks

Flying Bricks

Indestructible Bricks

Strange Visitors

Perfected Bricks

Exploding Bricks

Chemically Improved Bricks

Mechanically Improved Bricks

 

II. Energy Projectors

Elementalists

Focus Wielders

 

III. Mystics

Inheritors of Ancient Magic

Stage Performers

Occult Detectives

Ghosts

 

IV. Speedsters

Traditional Speedsters

Flyers

Swimmers

 

V. Weaponmasters

Archers

Anachronistic Lawmen

Vehicle Masters

 

VI. Mystery Men (replaces Martial Artist)

Costumed Detective

Femme Fatale

Frustrated Lawman

Great White Hunter

Mystery Man of Science

Trained Fighter

Wild Man or Woman

 

VII. Others

Gadgeteers

Mentalists

Metamorphs

Powered Armor

Patriots

 

VIII.Sidekicks

Derivative Kid

Female Counterpart

Comic Relief

Boy In Charge

That's a good list! Will they be converted similarly to the Champions Gallery in Champions (something I thought was cruelly missing from Champions Complete).

Also, any indication of cost of shipping to Australia?

Finally, would you care to name the characters on the cover?

Do we have any indication of cost of shipping? I'm particularly interested about Australia.

More like this

Looks good. Not sure how much control you have over this but he would look a lot more sinister with a black cape and the yellow replaced by silver.

If there is only one thing I'd like to see for Strike Force, is better character sheets (and by that I mean character write-ups format not the blank character sheet at the end of the book). The character sheets we have seen in both Complete feel way to 80's with the gray/white lines and the layout of the character sheets in Extreme Earth is just messy. I really prefered the clean layout used in 6E1/6E2. 

I would also like to see the characteristics laid out in smaller "blocks". Seeing a long list of characteristics from STR to Swimming just make HERO looks complicated. I'd rather see a block for the six primaries, a block for combat characteristics, a block for vital attributes, a block for movement and a block for perception. It would make the write-ups look more organised IMHO.