JmOz

Considering some version of a bonus to SysOps...

So how do you listen in?

Not disagreeing, and I am more interested in the build than the f/x (I have that covered)

Why discriminatory, not disagreeing, just trying to wrap my head around the logic...also would that cover the eavesdropping?

7 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

My issues with Growth/Shrinking is that it implies and tries to simulate size/mass/etc. for characters... but Hero doesn't have size/mass/etc. for attacks, and that is very relevant.

 

A bullet is a small thing moving very fast, and has a certain effect on a adult human sized target with certain size/mass/etc. If that bullet hits a small child (1/4 the size and mass of the adult) that bullet tends to do a LOT more damage to it because relative size/mass is different. If a bullet hits an Ant-Man type character, that relative size/mass is hugely different, and that bullet should do excessively more damage. A bullet hitting a 60 ft. tall character should do almost nothing, as its size/mass ratio is vastly reduced.

Now, you could take a rough stab at this with higher/lower Body on the target. Child has less body than Adult... but there is not enough granular range in Body for this to work, and Shrinking doesn't reduce the Body of a character... and Growth doesn't really add enough body, etc.

 

Essentially, Hero has no way of mechanically representing "scale" effectively. Everything is built assuming adult human scale, with damages and defenses flexing around that purely on a linear more or less fashion.

 

At what point has a shrinking character gone so small their blast attack is negligible? At what point is a Growth character so large that an average "size" attack is negligible?  In Hero terms, these aren't even questions. Champions as designed nearly 40 years ago, did not expect hard analysis, but just 'go with the comic book convention' and built the power to reflect that convention. Hero System, evolved over decades of actually asking these hard questions, has failed to adequately address them, because it is REALLY, REALLY HARD to do so in a balanced way. Vastly different scales on the same battlefield are going to be wildly incompatible in any "realistic" application, and you don't want that in a game... but Hero isn't a game any more, it is a game building system... so perhaps it is time to actually address scale.

 

Like at what point is a Growth character's punch an Area Effect?  Why doesn't an Area Effect attack do more damage, since it is hitting all of the target's body, not just one spot (i.e., why explosives are way more lethal than bullets)?

Game balance is the answer... but that leads to all kinds of "But then..." kind of things.

 

Even if you want to simulate classic comics concepts (Colossal Boy, Giant Man, etc.) it was always inconsistently done in the comics in ways Hero doesn't let you. Giant Man gets big, and they you have several panels of him taking all the blasts and shots, but he ignores them. We don't see him saying, "This will only last a couple of seconds, because all these little blasts will actually nickel and dime my stun away, and I'll be unconscious or dead!"... no, you see him completely ignoring the effects of "small attacks" because he is "big". But the increased PD/ED etc. to ignore those small attacks (dozens of them, so high rolls and max damage would occur a lot) would mean he was now tougher than the Hulk in many cases.

There is just too much "illogic" in comics, for a logical system like Hero to effectively simulate them. With Growth and Shrinking, we've either just stayed away from them, or limited them to relative human scale (a couple levels only, either side).

I've yet to see any ideas that actually make the size/mass changing work well.

Simply add a x2 Vulnerability to all body if you want more real for small and Damage Reduction for larger...

It's for a Street Level Champions game.  It will be vehicle based (a part of the characters vehicle)

The idea is the ability to track someone via the phone (either GPS or the signal)  and being able to listen in to the conversation more than actually "hacking" the phone

how would you build a character who can track characters via their cell phone/ hack their cell phones

Says it all, what kind of sensors would you put on a VTOL

Quite a bit, Schizophrenia is the hearing or seeing things that are not their.  It is more Delusional Disorder with abnormal delusions

Fanboy

Fanboy has the power of COSPLAY.  Whenever he creates a costume he is able to imbue it with psionic energy that makes his make believe into reality.  The picture is of him in his Dr. Science costume, a character of a fan fiction he did based on the 1940's sci-fi heroes of the serials (Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon)

On 5/9/2015 at 4:51 PM, Lord Liaden said:

But what I hear repeatedly from black people in North America is that they welcome seeing more of their own depicted in media as strong, successful, and positive role models. I may have completely missed the mark, but rather than weep I would suspect Dr. King would be delighted to see a formerly-white character depicted as black and have that be completely socially acceptable.

Pet peeve...Black Panther is not an African american...

Honestly, I missed that it was such a necro post, or would not have said anything....my bad for bringing up something so old...

On 5/9/2015 at 4:51 PM, Lord Liaden said:

But what I hear repeatedly from black people in North America is that they welcome seeing more of their own depicted in media as strong, successful, and positive role models. I may have completely missed the mark, but rather than weep I would suspect Dr. King would be delighted to see a formerly-white character depicted as black and have that be completely socially acceptable.

Pet peeve...Black Panther is not an African american...

It's okay, not fond of END Reserves personally, but otherwise yah, decent blaster

She is BEGGING for a mentalist to take her over...Not saying you can't sell off MCV values but would not fly in my game...

In my game I would say sure, with the UBO/Uncontrolled you are giving the power to who  you wish...I would have some concerns and monitor it, but we are talking about a powerful ability here and I would do the same with any thing I consider powerful...

Part of  the Focus at that point. At least that is how I would rule it, also as a VPP entry could easily make fewer charges and more UBO (but seems more complicated to me...)

2 minutes ago, iamlibertarian said:

 

1) Well, true, 'grenade' doesn't really fit this, but some specialty item was the thought. For example Coulson's cool car wouldn't likely be in Nick's VPP, but some special need might call for it and SHIELD might convince him to loan it, lol.

2) True. General Concept = Outfitter for varied circumstances (though occasionally the character gets to be his own UBO recipient. But see my other post in this thread about not liking the UBO mechanics for this specific purpose. If the character makes 6 grenades/potions before leaving base, it would be nice during the mission to be able to choose at that moment (in the middle of the mission) to hand the explosive grenade to the Flyer to drop in the center of the bad guys, and separately choose to hand the healing potion to the speedster to get to a teammate quickly, while using the AE invisibility dust on the rest of the group himself, and have this be the regular everyday concept of the character to act in this manner, and UOO doesn't support that well (see the other post).

That is almost the definition of a VPP with a large pool, moderate Control, and heavy use of the UBO advantage

For the record, Flying cars are actually a staple of SHIELD, and Fury uses them ALL the time

However the grenades become duds if you swap your points in the VPP.  You can get around that by adding Uncontrolled advantage as well (making it 30 real points)

Okay, now that I have a semi concrete example for you

6 Grenades is 2d6 RKA, +1/2 AE.   OIF, (-1/2), 6 Charges (-3/4) 45 active points 20 real points

 20 Real points becomes the base Active points that you apply any limitations/advantages to for being able to grant the power so UBO

25 Real points.  As you are creating six grenades (the charges), hand them out as you wish (part of the Foci lim at this point)

4 minutes ago, iamlibertarian said:

Maybe that is where I am going wrong with my thinking... you could be right. I suppose that if 'grenades' (or whatever) isn't within Nick's VPP, but the story calls for him having said grenade, SHIELD could in rare circumstances grant it, SHIELD just being an NPC and lending said item (i.e. GM moving the story forward, but not being a regular thing...

Exactly, but as a VPP based on SHIELD armory, grenades is a no brainer.  

This is Bandit's VPP

Equipment Pool:  Variable Power Pool, 40 base + 30 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (85 Active Points); Maximum of 15 Real Points (-1/2), Armory Based (-1/4), Only Found Ultra Tech (-1/4), Kit Load (-1/4)

Nick would have something similar, probably just Armory and Kit load limitations

As for your concept, as I understand it.  I would use UBO with the potions being an F/X, as it seems your goal is to give powers out, not to have them yourself and occasionally loan them out 

Players have to be monitored for how often they give their foci to friends...if the GM feels it is excessive then he should make them pay for UBO.

In my new game the players have a patron, who is a retired Batman like hero.  One character has a VPP and can use it to hit up his old armory.  The other three do not so can't.  Two of the others do have a UT Belt and can add slots representing adding gear from the old cave, but can't change it out.

If the VPP hero (Bandit) wants to, she could give up some of her VPP to the other players occasionally, or buy the gadget with UBO to represent sharing constantly (Carries extra gas masks for instance).  this has already come up once (One team member does not have a radio)

Anything the GM decides to give is fine by definition

RE SHIELD

Stop thinking about Shield as being the source of the grenades, that is an F/X

Nick Fury has a VPP (SHIELD Armory) on his character sheet.  When he grabs a few grenades they are coming from that.  

In play, most GM's will say the powers given out are still "in play" for the VPP....at least I would...

4 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Another route to simulate an ability like the Grenadier's, especially if it borders on the magical for a particular character,  might be to use Transform to change some other object(s) into the desired ones. If the product is something with a powerful effect, that could also get quite expensive in CP.

 

In Hero System there's almost always more than one rules-legal way to build something. One way may happen to suit your preferences better than another.

Also, as a GM, I realize that I had to ditch the "Most expensive is the right way" rule...I can build a power that does what a 1d6 Blast does for 20 points, or destroy the world for the same cost.  Obviously the wrong ways...You should be asking "Is this priced appropriately for it's utility".

Giving every player extra power constantly, at no lack of ability to the main character is powerful, and should be expensive.  Giving up some of your combat ability to help a teammate is fairly balanced...

Definitely on potions. 

Also remember special effects are king

The Shield Agent probably has his own VPP, representing items from SHIELD.  he is not making the gadget, just has access to  them.  

The Universal Foci rules are for the rare instance when Batman gives the flash a smoke grenade as part of a tactic, not so he can outfit Robin with them (Robin has his own UT Belt with the F/X of  getting them from Batman)

A great example of this is actually JLA/Avengers #4.  Captain America gives Superman his shield, we all know Supes isn't going to keep it, but for a limited time he gets to use Cap's shield (and Thor's hammer, which would be breaking the foci rules).

One note about Personal foci, others CAN use them in rare circumstances (your evil clone from another universe, someone who is also a son of Zeus, etc...)