Inu

Re: Ridiculous things in comics that you don't mind.

Re: CHAR: Martian Manhunter Nice! I'm a big fan of the green guy. Especially the looks on people's faces when I go through his power list. 'Imagine all of Superman's powers, only not at quite the same level. Then add in invisibility and density control powers. Oh yeah, and shapeshifting. And high-level telepathy. But he's vulnerable to fire instead of kryptonite, but he doesn't care too much about it at the moment.' My exposure to him is limited, however -- I've never read his solo series, only Morrison's JLA run and the JLA/JLU animated series. In there, it struck me that his tactics skill should be higher... in the JLU, it goes to the extent that even with all his incredible powers, he's more use sitting back and coordinating affairs than he is actually fighting. (I guess all the mind linking there can be handled by the VPP.) With the VPP, though... might be good to limit its use further. Is it only for making NEW powers, or could he use the points to, say, boost his telepathy to 40d6? (etc etc) Anyway, cool writeup, I don't think it missed anything from my account. For interest's sake, what is the current status of his fire vulnerability? Was it only ever a psychological fear? in Morrison's JLA run, it seemed to make him vulnerable to ordinary attacks... was that just his fear making him lose control of his form?

Re: Ridiculous things in comics that you don't mind. Morlocks. I'd bet that most of them are just ugly, with no real powers to speak of at all. (It's still stupid that they all got killed by a dozen psycho mutants. Sure, they had surprise... but the Morlocks were entirely powerless to stop them?)

Re: Sapphire - Heroine, Champion, ...Hater of Puppies? Sapphire makes me cry.

Re: Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved

Re: Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved Check out Hero Wars sometime. In the Orlanthi culture of Glorantha, everyone -- EVERYONE, beginning at age 13-18 -- can use magic. Most people use their magic purely to enhance their mundane abilities. ("I'm an initiate of the farming god. I get a bonus whenever I plough my field.") Others invest more time into developing their magic and can do more powerful things. ("I use my connection to the farming god to break up the soil, making this hard, dry earth easier to plough.") Certain rituals are available to all, such as contraception (all women can control their fertility, making family planning possible in a bronze/iron-age culture). On a community level, one day out of every ten is spent in holy celebrations, which have real effect... on many of them, the participants actually travel to the God World and visit their deities (initiates experience this only vaguely, devotees with more direct memory). The celebrations and sacfices performed give actual, tangible benefits over the next year. Failure to perform these rituals have major repercussions... (if you don't greet summer as it blows away winter, for instance, winter might not end... but only in your clan's lands). Battles between two clans have people flying in the sky, daimones summoned by both sides, and a good number of warriors wielding flaming weapons, striking with lightning bolts, or things like that. And back to the personal level, there's magic for everything. There's matchmaker magic, which can bring two people together; death magic to send the souls to the otherworld; fertility magic to aid conception and birth; divination magic to tell when to plant seeds to where danger will come from; household magic to clean rooms or make up with your spouse; animal magic to keep the herds in order; storm magic to bring rain on your lands or hail on your enemy's. It's some damn neat stuff. Ubiquitous magic gets FUN.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever And I REALLY loved his Excalibur stuff. He looks back on it and thinks it's his worst work ever... me, I loved it. I liked Pete Wisdom, I didn't mind the continuity goofs (hey, he was badly informed by other writers), and I liked what he did with the characters. Particularly Rahne, who went from 'schizo crazy girl' to 'grown up emotionally-mature woman' under his writing. Great stuff. (Although someone apparently forgot to tell later writers this. Ah well.)

Re: Real Origin of Batman Well, before he had a batmobile, he needed the bathorse. Obviously.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever It was Millar. And yeah, Ellis wasn't too hot on the X-Men. I liked the story, thought it was pretty cool, but the X-Men were kinda chumped. ; Ellis certainly isn't above being vindictive against characters he's got something against.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Beast vs Blob, Ultimate X-Men #23-25. SPOILERS Not a physical fight, one of wits. Now, it looks as if Ultimate Blob is a fair bit smarter than the normal version. But still, he gets Beast to believe that he's a super-model with a PhD in 'infrared astronomy', over an internet chat program. Gets Beast so hot for him that he a) admits that Magneto is alive and being held by Xavier, and agrees to meet 'Naomi', right after that confession. He has no notion that this might be something other than it seems, so that he mentions to the others that he has a meeting in the city, but nothing else. Now, I can accept that Blob's somewhart articulate here. But unless he actually HAS a PhD in infrared astronomy, I don't think he'd be able to withstand Beast's scrutiny. I can also accept that Beast is lovesick (just got dumped by Storm), and is more willing to believe outlandish stories, as long as someone's interested in him. But... but... it's just stupid! Beast ain't THAT dumb. It's easy to get taken in. But seriously, I don't believe that Blob could really have fooled him, if not about the personality thing, then about the science thing. Are we really to believe that Beast never doubted Naomi's education? Honestly, I thought Beast was stringing him along, trying to get information out of him. BUt then he goes to the meeting, no protection, and gets beat up. He didn't suspect a thing. Well, damn. So, to tie this tenuously into the thread: the super-fight at the end, with Beast getting pounded by the Brotherhood, is not the problem. The fact that the fight happend AT ALL, that's why I think it's one of the worst superfights ever!

Re: Space combat: how big is an inch, how long is a turn? Yah, the role of ECM and ECCM is vital. In most of my space settings, I've included AWACS vessels which travelled with the fleet. I've long been tinkering with a system/setting more like the stuff presented in the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual, a third-party supplement detailing all you need to know about the CMarines. It had some nice space combat stuff, placing the Sulaco into context. It said that space combat was about two things, and two things only: stealth and detection. If you could see the bad guy before he could see you, you could launch your nukes first and blow him up. Basically, submarine warfare in space. To make it more submarine-like, I was considering adding in 'terrain' effects. It's well-known that there's no such thing as a true vacuum... the average density of interplanetary space is a few atoms per cubic centimetre, and I'm not sure how much we know about interplanetary space at the moment. But it leaves open the possibility of 'terrain' -- some areas might have more matter than others, which could throw off scans. Ejecta from comets might provide a 'ridge' to hide behind... or if you wanna get really scifi, space could include various folds that could even simulate the thermocline of submarine warfare. In such a setting, fighters are all but useless... except possibly if they're stealthy sensor vehicles or the like. But certainly, no dogfighting, no 'pitched capital ship combat'. A few nukes is all it takes to end most engagements.

Re: Space combat: how big is an inch, how long is a turn?

Re: Don't Buy Everything In a Good Story (Topic: Supers and the Law)

Re: Don't Buy Everything In a Good Story (Topic: Supers and the Law) Yah, pretty much. I figured it was queuing off the notion that heroes and villains feed each other. Without villains, no heroes... and without heroes, no villains. A notion I find some interest in, but wouldn't include in my own stuff, 'cause it kinda makes being a superhero... a bad thing. ;

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Yup, that one too. He's been fairly consistently knocked about by attacks from surprise... and fairly consistently able to take head-on strikes if he's able to 'roll with the punch'. (In Hero, I'd say he'd be a prime contender for combat luck, with activation roll, perhaps? Or maybe Breakfall or some other skill check.) None of which he got to use with Spider-Man. Spidey got robbed.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever I can definitely see that. I can also see him taking a hit from Grimm in the middle of a fight, even a pretty good one, and coming back for more. If the adrenaline's flowing, there isn't much that can stop him. Note, not resisting it just through toughness, but also by taking the blow well to minimise damage to himself - like he did when he got hit by the Hulk in his first appearance, turning a killing strike into a glancing blow, that still dazed him. In a fight with Grimm, I'm imagining Grimm unloading on him, Wolvy turning into the blow and being knocked through a wall. Get back to feet, shake off the daze, come back for more. Worse for wear, definitely, but that'll fix itself soon enough, as long as he can keep from being hit again too often. But get him 'out of combat' for a moment (Show him a picture of a naked Jean, for instance), let the adrenaline fade off, then bop him on the back of the head? He might just be knocked out. Hit him before combat begins, get him from surprise, any of that, he might just be knocked out. Hit him OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, no. He's not just gonna suck that down. His healing factor will let him recover, but it takes TIME. Absolutely. Logan's able to take a heck of a lot. He's a wolverine - he's small, but DAMN tough and vicious. While his powers have changed a lot since his first appearance, that concept hasn't. A super-strength hit to the head is something he'll notice. A series of super-fast, super-strong hits? Well, I can see him being conscious after that, but that's about all. And I'm a big-time Wolverine fan.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Or rather, he's 'vulnerable' magic in the same way that you or I are 'vulnerable' to knives. In that, we can be hurt. According to Kurt, he just doesn't have any particular 'Vulnerable: 2x effect' disadvantage. Blame the English language for having words with too many nuances.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Gah. I love Kurt, I hate John, can't they be in opposite camps just to save my sanity? ;.; *grins* Not that I'm vindictive, petty or small...

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever He made his argument more explicit later. He wasn't arguing that Thor hit no harder with Mjolnir, just that Mjolnir had no magical 'hit harder' properties. Just the physical properties of being a huge honkin' super-hard hammer. It's a sketchy argument, based on 'it hasn't been explicitly stated, and we've had other things explicitly stated, so it probably isn't there', but hey. It's an opinion.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: HERO combat - somewhat abstract or entirely specific? There MUST be at least some minimal level of abstraction. Otherwise, two guys in a fistfight are standing in the same positions, trading blows once every 3-6 seconds (assuming normal human speeds). I've never assumed fights look like that, myself... I usually insert probing punches in here and there, some circling going on, then one guy lunges in for an attack. Bam! Other guy takes advantage of the opening, launches a counter-attack, bam! There's a lot going on besides what is explicitly handled in the rules. To represent a pair of opposed attack rolls as an exchange of blows? That's entirely within the spirit of the rules, in my opinion. Individual games will certain vary, between the minimum levels of abstraction and D&D levels (where an attack roll represents not a single lunge, but a single chance of hitting). I vary between the two extremes, depending on the fight. But I spend more time towards the higher end than the lower.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever Yes, you're right. I owed the discussion a more serious point rather than a random snipe. I apologise. I guess this is my point: if the discussion were being handled in a calmer fashion, I think it would be a lot more enlightening on both sides. Instead, we have it becoming quite acrimonious, and I feel the point is being lost in many cases. I'm finding many good points being made. It's just a pity that they're being lost amidst vitriol and self-righteous mocking. Not all of them, to be sure. And I don't feel like going through a laundry list. But I think it's that, rather than the argument itself, that is scaring people away. So I guess I'm just asking people to tone it down a little. Argue the points that really matter to you, not the ones that are in front of you. Does the # of punches thing really matter? Do snipes at Chuckg for perceived inconsistency in his ignores really matter? If they do, go ahead. If they don't, well, think about whether you really have to get into it. If you don't have to, then consider moving on to the next point. (Just so I can't be accused of telling people they can't post on something.) As for my own input into the debate, which I will give and then move on to other topics: for me, the debate boils down to one issue. I'm on the 'fight was silly' side, but I do have to admit that Spider-Man has repeatedly shown the kind of strength necessary to do that. HOWEVER, I don't like that. But really, that's a personal problem I have, not an objective one. It's mainly that, anyway. As stated before, Spidey has repeatedly failed to perform at those levels in cases where lives, including his own, were at risk. To me, just like Chuckg, this weakens the character. It makes him less believable to me, and less consistent. It makes me wonder what happened to the super-strength in those scenes. And when we see him out-smarting villains too tough for him to take on directly, it cheapens all that, too, because we know that if things went too tough, he could just pull out 'maximum Spider' and beat the tar outta 'em. And when he does lose? Well, if he loses without going to max power, he's getting robbed, right? This, for me, sounds like bad writing. And so I'd rather ignore things like him KOing Rhino in four punches, or him taking down Firelord. Because without those appearances, Spidey looks to me like a much cooler character. Chuckg seems to be making the argument that they should be ignored for the sake of consistency. I'm not making that argument, though it could be made (but I can see why people reject it). My argument is that Spidey is not a character I find interesting if he has those incredible powers. Not because he's 'too powerful' but because he's so inconsistent with his power level that... well, it gets close to that 'hysterical paralysis' being talked about earlier. And I do realise that consistency is a huge problem in comics. I do realise that writers will have their favorite character win regardless. I do realise that Spidey's the hero, so he'll emerge triumphant. But I do believe that the above are examples of bad writing. And if it doesn't make for a good story, and it cheapens the iconic character being presented, I say 'great fight, great buildup, stupid ending.'

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever That's the one exactly. Strong stuff! And shows you don't need a character to be whomping on the bad guy to be emotionally powerful. Just takes good writing.