DarkGreen

Ah... I see "Affects Real Armor Only" and my first thought is that you mean that it affects armor bought with the "Real Armor" disad (pg 334). In most FH campaigns that means all the armor people will wear, but not natural armor or magic spells. If you meant "Real" as in "Physical", then never mind my statement. -DG

Heh, One thing I like about the Armor Inferiority feat is that it doesn't effect natural armor, so all my biggest bad guys would be unaffected. I'll call that one the "PC ripper" !! -DG

Re: Re: Re: Re: 2 cents Heh, yes the feats thread has dissolved into people going on about how nasty PCs are... Gosh.. in my campaign spell resistance is usually just a bit of all defenses with the "only versus magic" limitation. And anybody taking a power "usable against others" has power defense as a defense automatically. So this armor would stop healing spells or beneficial abilities as well, hunh? I don't think the PCs would WANT it! -DG

Re: I'm not a member of Stargate Command in Real Life... That link just generates a Java error for me... -DG

Yeah. We've got another thread with a poll on point totals used for FH. Looks like 150 is most popular, followed by 100. At both those levels I typically see fighters (and archers) with solid 20 STR on everybody. STR is just SO efficient. That gives 40kg to work with and weight to spare. Typically people in my campaigns cruise along just below the encumberance threshold (even when it means going to partial coverage by, say, swapping out their plate gloves and shoes for leather). Just the way it is, I guess. But it does make the encumberance less of an effect. Don't even get me STARTED on how boring it gets having a whole party in plate. -DG

Feywulf- While STR min equipment does cost end "based on the STR used" (pg 327), a character never pays end for his STR more than once per phase no matter how many things it's used for (pg 20). So a fighter using a weapon in one hand and a shield (or anything else) in the other doesn't pay any extra end usually. -DG

I assumed you were falling back on DnD experience because your responses seemed to suggest that you thought there was some sort of game mechanic advantage to having a second weapon, which there isn't. Ok. So how would YOU build it in a way that people would actually want to buy it for an efficient character? Please accept my regrets. I honestly thought your post looked like a troll/flame. Reading it now I still get that feeling, but I guess I am mistaken. I will take your criticism (and any other genuine thoughts) gladly. I respond poorly to trolls though, and that's what I (wrongly) thought your post was. I thought the sequence was clear from the power. As any power with a related skill roll you spend the action first and then roll to see if your action was wasted, not roll first then spend the action if it will succeed. Apparently you were drawing your presumed game mechanics from the "flavor text" which was meant only as explanation of rough effect for newer players. Your assertion on this front was one of the things that made me assume it was a troll. As for the limitation value, you may be right. If I recall my thinking at the time it was that RSR with an opposed skill roll (as a block certainly is) is -3/4. In this case the skill roll is something common and happens in a combat context but I'll ignore that because it's one thing where the opponent is likely to have a high value (on par with the PC). Then You have to take into account that the bad guy can completely eliminate this power by choosing to thump other people and that in the context here (during a PCs action), the block will be pre-emptive (as opposed to an abort) and thus the bad guy can see it happen. If I have a bad guy fighting a whole party and one of the PCs is blocking while the others aren't, the bad guy will probably turn to whale on the other PCs while duelist boy blocks thin air. That second part seems like a solid -1 to me (would I rather have an -11 or "opponent must attack my visible block"? -11 !!!) Before people jump on me about waiting to block (and thus surprising the foe), keep in mind that the character has to block during the same segment as his FW roll. Thus he has to have an action and spends the first half rolling FW. Then he has a half move and has to use it on the same segment, meaning he has to block before the bad guy moves or make a DEX roll to interrupt (no aborting on segments when you've taken any action). Thus it's either a visible pre-emptive block or adding another DEX roll and reducing your chances to P(FW) x P(DEX) x P(Block) which get's very ugly. -DG

Heh. I have one NPC named "Thog" running around my world who has +10 OCV with club, a huge club, and always targets the head. The only common he speaks is "Club to the head", which he says every action right before he hits someone in the noggin. He's one of the few NPC bad guys my PCs actually giggle about when he shows up. I guess they like him more cause he does normal damage (and thus rarely any body). One time he had boots of clinging and participated in a siege (he was attacking). That was a mess. -DG

Hmm... how much of a limitation are gestures and incantations in a VPP. If restrained, the power just gets redefined as not needing those. This is the main problem I have GMing or playing VPPs, most disads seem to be non disads in a VPP. I would let someone take a focus disad if it were accessible and with the understanding that those points are gone with the focus if someone grabs it. Otherwise you're limited to non-situational disads like activation rolls, extra end, and such. Even extra time isn't much of a disad if it's thrown on a power outside of combat. The assumption I would make would be that the extra time disad would be taken to match whatever time the character knows he has available - nixing it as a disad! Maybe I'm too much of a hardass on that one, but otherwise isn't a VPP just a license to abuse the rules? -DG

I think It's spelled "Jayne" -DG

What are you referring to on "but the difference is that 1/2 DCV" ?? You take 1/2DCV on a sweep or with TWF. And there's no such thing as DCV PSLs so the DCV penalty will always be on someone doing a sweep. (Hmm.. unless they buy DCV levels only to offset 1/2DCV during sweeps (-1/2) )! And the reason that I outlaw most called shot PSLs for starting characters is that, statistically, called shots are frighteningly efficient. Consider: someone with +8 OCV for calling shots (16 pts with 2 pt levels, 12 pts with PSLs), now take a look at the game effects of hitting the head or vitals every shot. Even at 2 PSLs it's frighteningly efficient (although a slightly more challenging bit of math to analyze). Cheers, -DG

That's a pretty good policy. I personally do not typically allow starting characters to have range PSLs better than 2, nor do I allow ANY called shot PSLs. Too effective and unrealistic. So how do you deal with talents that are just bundled PSLs? Two-weapon fighting is 3 PSLs for off-hand weapon use and 2 PSLs for sweep. Do you let people buy the talent bundled but not the discrete levels? Of course, if someone has a favored weapon, 2pt OCV levels are almost as efficient but it's easier to spot when someone has ten of those vs spotting a few PSLs here and there around the char sheet Cheers, -DG

Gradon- My point isn't that they can't be deadly, just that they don't gain much from having the second weapon. Let me try to illustrate (with a little help from some friends of R.A. Salvatore): Guy 1: Drizzt Do'urden in his younger days Two-weapon fighting (10 points) and a scimitar in each hand. Requires a rapid attack to get more than one shot off, full phase, 1/2 DCV, etc. Gets two attacks at full OCV and takes -2 on all attacks for each attack after the second. Assume that he has Off hand weapon fam for a +1 DCV (1 pt) Result: 2 attacks at full OCV, +1 DCV - cost 11 pts Guy 2: Bruenor the dwarf in a battle craze Spent 12 points on PSLs with sweep (all weapons) for a 4 OCV offset. Can attack at same penalties 3 times a round before getting minuses, and has a hand free for a large shield. Result: 3 attacks at full OCV, +3 DCV - cost 12 pts You can adjust those as you see fit (Bruenor can get 2 attacks and +3 DCV for only 6 points and better Drizzt on 5 less points. He could spend those on rapid attack and get his half move back, or spend it on more DCV and be WAY ahead of the Drow.) AND the guy who is using two weapons is universally worse off when not sweeping. When not sweeping a guy with two weapons who PAID EXTRA POINTS for off handed fam is still inferior to someone with a medium or better shield in their off hand. This is probably why pretty much every PC I see who has the option (i.e. not precluded by special limitations) carries a large shield. The Off-handed weapon parry ability is to offset this a little. Note that the poor unfortunate still has to have ambidex if he wants to reasonably attack with his off hand. I view it as basically 3 points to look cool and occasionally do something cool and flashy (like having a weapon at-hand after a disarm). I think having a cost comparable to a skill is about right, and it works out from power construction as well. Cheers, -DG

I'm glad you made it only for heartfelt oaths! In my campaign I might also not make it a sense, just to require the player to remind the GM when he is detecting! Could be plot dangerous, but many of my corrupt types are rich enough that they would take umbrage at being asked to swear an oath I'd totally allow that one. -DG

Well, on the first one you're charging the character more than just buying some 3 pt CSLs which can go to OCV or DCV, AND if he bought levels instead they would stack with a shield. I think you're overestimating the capability of shield expert. All it really does is change the special effect on the shield (look at how shield is built pg 334) to define the OAF as a weapon. I've lowered the weight a little to give it some actual value for the points. Keep in mind that this is not DnD, HAVING A SECOND WEAPON PROVIDES NO PRIMA FACIAE ADVANTAGE TO THE CHARACTER. They would still need to use rapid attack to take more than one swing and they can already do that with one weapon. Basically it's just special effects with almost no game effect. The way the rules are structured now nobody ever builds a two-weaponed character because shields are so efficient, and yet in fiction the two weaponed characters are all baaaad. I was trying to bring in some of that flavor and realized that there isn't really any reason for this to cost many points. Frankly I think comparing changing the special effect on a shield as equivalent to selling DCV levels cheap is poor reasoning. And your second comment is, forgive the bluntness, silly. Nothing happens after an attack action. The character spends his first half phase on the FW roll and then tries to block. If he fails to block or if the enemy he rolled FW against does not attack him the FW roll is mooted. -DG

5th edition has an "off hand weapon familiarity" that costs 1 pt and provides +1 DCV for people with a weapon in each hand, see pg 54, note 4. -DG

Might be 2 pts for an engineering professor with access to lots of expensive labs, equipment, and peers. Can't see a humanities professor getting much out of it unless its a mystical campaign and the university has a "special collection" and some lesser known experts on "special topics". -DG

Well... these are sure to draw lots of critique.... ===================================== Off-handed weapon parry – 3 pts A warrior skilled with off handed weapon parry is able to use a weapon or object in his off hand defensively as well as a normal character can use a shield. An example of this would be cloak-fighting. Combat Effect: A tiny object (no STR min) gives DCV equivalent to a small shield, a small object (STR min below 5) gives DCV equivalent to a medium shield, and a medium object (STR min 6+) gives DCV as a large shield. Prerequisites: WF common melee and at least 2 CSLs Power construction: Bought as spending the points to reduce the STR minimum on the shield by one level, otherwise just a change of special effects. Difference between 15 and 12 points for large shield is most expensive. Expert Duelist – 5 pts An expert duelist can draw his foe out, causing them to overextend and reveal key points of attack. He also is an expert at catching an opponent off guard and off balance to deliver vicious strikes. Combat Effect: When the character successfully blocks an opponent’s attack he can also attempt to draw them out and learn their fighting style. This increases the deadliness of his strikes. Prerequisites: Power contruction: Find Weakness with chosen weapon, 13- (14), may only make rolls in same segment as a succesful block (opposed RSR plus limited use) –1.75 [Note that a half phase is required to be available, so this does not combine synergistically with battledancer except on segments when the character has a normal phase. For example if the enemy goes first in a phase and the Expert Duelist is blocking already and blocks successfully, then the Duelist can use a half phase to make a FW roll and still have half a phase left.] ============================================= Before I get flamed too bad let me point out that the off-hand weapon parry basically just lets people change special effects. In hero system there isn't any fundamental attack advantage to having a weapon in the off hand UNLESS someone buys ambidex (which is expensive) so that they could then choose reasonably which weapon to attack with. I consider that insignificant. -DG

Steve is SHARP The hero book anticipates our question. Page 213, lower left paragraph. Chars bought as powers or talents DON'T suffer from doubling under normal characteristic maxima. Son of a gun. I never realized that. -DG

Do Characteristics based talents (like lightning reflexes) double in cost as they take the effective stat above campaign characteristics maxima? The context in which this came up is here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7824#post7824 We're dicussing GM created "feats" for fantasy hero and, since one of them is built using SPD, we were wondering if the cost should be doubled. -DG

I'm not really sure how that applies to talents/powers that use characteristics to simulate powers. Does lightning reflexes double in value if it takes your "initiative DEX" above the max? I'll post a question to Steve on that one. -DG

WeaponFam: Your characters typically have more than 9pts of weapon familiarities????!!!! Holy weapon selection batman! ... Seriously though, most characters in our campaign spend 2-4 points on weapon fams. 9 points for all seemed reasonable to all the GMs, and it can't be TOO abusive because nobodies ever bothered to take it. Battledancer: Hmm... the +3DCV you propose instead is actually CHEAPER than the feat you're saying is too cheap, at least if limited to be similar in applicability (only during non-attacking segments). I guess that's what I was comparing to in order to see if it was too cheap or not. The only time I could see someone wanting it is if they had a really good OCV and wanted to use the blocking mechanism instead of the dodging mechanism to represent being hard to hit due to parrying. Given that it costs the same or more than a flat out +3 DCV and blocking requires opposed skill rolls with increasing penalties I don't see the problem. The only real impact is that a high OCV type character using the block mechanism is going to get to hit back first no matter what his DEX. Given the relatively high cost, again, I have no problem with that. Can you give an example of a synergy that is giving you concern? -DG PS: In our campaign martial arts are highly limited (to monks and certain ethnic classes), so people wouldn't typically have Battledancer stacked with Martial Dodge available. PPS: At 100 pts Battledance with Martial Dodge, SPD 3 and high dex would be half of someone's character!

I'm starting this thread to encourage people to post "feats". We all know what they are in the DnD context: small special things that exceptional characters can do that normal characters can't. I've been writing a collection of them recently and figured I'd start a thread. I have a bunch but will post slowly to keep from making a mondo thread at the very beginning (which means nobody will read it ) Examples: Weapon Master – 9 pts A Weapon Master can instantly use any weapon or object he picks up in combat. Even the most exotic weapon is familiar in his hands. The only thing that may slow him down in using a weapon would be a complex weapon who’s very function is not clear (such as a musket, which requires multiple non-obvious steps to use), but once figured out even that weapon will not present combat penalties. Combat Effect: The Weapon Master never suffers OCV penalties due to lack of weapon familiarity. Prerequisites: none Power construction: 3 PSLs vs weapon non-familiarity penalties (9 pts) Battledancer -- 12 or 16 pts A battledancer is a master of the parry and dodge. He is always moving and dodging, meeting every opponent’s blows with parries and constantly moving. Combat effect: The character is assumed to abort to dodge or block at the beginning of each segment after acting. The character should define whether this is usually blocking or dodging (assumes dodging if nothing is indicated). Prerequisites: SPD of 3 or 4 Power construction: +3 SPD, only for dodging/blocking (no extra half or zero phase actions, so no reallotment of levels) (-1.5) : 12 pts or +4 SPD with same limitations: 16 -DG

Man I liked that show. Like many sci-fi TV series.... it looks like the lead characters all have combat luck. Nobody wears armor, thugs die in one shot, good guys just get dramatically wounded. Otherwise it's mostly an issue of milieu. -DG

Hmm... I am under the impression that even with all the issues of iron it was still a hefty advance over the bronze weapons they were used against. Also I recall hearing theories that "excalibur" was a sword made of steel (possibly meteorite steel) in a world of iron swords. I have an excellent book on the subject but there is a dog asleep on my lap so I can't go get it -DG