unclevlad

4 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

 

Similar, but simpler. No vague Power Defense, no figuring/calculating active points, just a simple, flat effect for X rounds. Quickly applied, set effect defense one for one. Just looking for ease of use.

The simplicity is misleading.  Is this ONLY useful against OCV?  Is the cost the same on OCV vs. DCV?  What other similar things can be done with this?  And any time you start adding very narrow, specialized powers, that's both a form of complexity in its own right, and has to fit reasonable costing compared to other, existing approaches.  And in the work to remember them, or look them up.  

Hmm.  Actually you can build this in that way.  Use standard effect rules.  OCV is 5 points, so you need 1 1/2 dice to get 5.25.  Thus...-1 OCV is 15 points.  Swapping Flash Def for Power Def is a +0, IIRC, as they're at the same level.  Recovery is 1 OCV per turn.  Oh, well, hmm.  How would my 3 BODY per turn Regen come into play?

It's only simple on the surface.

8 minutes ago, dsatow said:

 

Yeah, scientifically, all sorts of things can happen to the body but this is FMS, so all that flies out the door.  Basically the start up time means the character is out of play for that much time which probably means the rest of the session or more.

It's doing it because you're letting it go by the wayside trying to get a huge Limitation, so, nothing personal, but that's a very self-serving position.  And being out for a session, sure, but so what?  You'll be back in with the same character soon enough.  I'm willing to say something like this is worth *something* but not this much.  

36 minutes ago, dsatow said:

 

You can do it either as a regen with a weekly time or probably better regen with a start up time of a week:

7 days from the grave: - 2 Body per turn regen with resurrection and can heal limbs, Resurrection Only -2, Start up Time 1 Week -2.5*

Act: 57, Real: 10

 

* normally not allowed in 6th ed. Regen but I would see it as the character being out for a week as a pretty severe limitation.

On one level, it's kind of a big deal, but on another?  No.  Fact is, you're coming back at all.  I'm willing to listen, but this is primarily a dramatic limitation, not a functional one, isn't it?  And you're already piling on a major limitation in Resurrection Only.  

Another issue...the body's dead for a week.  Lots of bad things happen...like, decomposition.  Like permanent tissue degradation.  (In cardiac arrest, apparently the rule of thumb is 4-6 minutes from arrest to the onset of bran damage.)  What OP is aiming for, I think, is a living body, showing vital signs...but in a deep coma.  

4 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

Roll attack, roll dice, based on roll, a certain effect is in place for X rounds. No basing it around human-o-centric "senses" or whatever, but just generic effects for temporary time.

 

-1 OCV for next X rounds... or -X OCV for one round, based on Body rolled... could simulate a lot of things. Same with - DCV, - Other Stat, etc. Price it like Flash... good to go (assuming you defined a defense like Flash Defense for it in the same way, or something similarly common that a character could have.

In other words...Drain.  Albeit the recovery time isn't that flexible, but Drain has this structure.  Why do we need another method?

12 hours ago, clnicholsusa said:

Sounds to me like a good place for a transformation attack:

Vertigo Dart: 8d6 Minor Transform, reduced balance and coordination to -2 CV (40 Active Points)

Rapid Healing (REC per 20 minutes; -1)

6 Charges (-3/4)

All Or Nothing (-1/2)

Limited Target (humans only; -1/2)

Beam (-1/4)

Can Be Deflected (-1/4)

Range Based On STR (-1/4)

Real Cost: 8 points

I'm seeing a bad end-run to turn this into a cheap, VERY long lasting Drain, and to bypass the rule that draining a defense, the drain's at half.  And Humans is not worth much, if anything, as a Limited Target.

It's a way to go, but it, like Flash, is structured as all or nothing...they can see or they can't...rather than some form of OCV/DCV or perception penalty.

Ohh...yeah, doing it to DCV gets halved.  Always forget that....  I don't mind that multiple darts would have more effect;  with a poison, that's common.

APG has Change Environment options to impose limitations, remove advantages,or impose complications.  There's EGO reductions for mentalist CEs.  There isn't anything specifically for OCV/DCV right there, but imposing a complication seems VERY close.  Mind:  should the notion that reducing a defense costs double, still apply here?  

Honestly, dude, this is a Drain.  Fine, it's 3d6 and 6d6....or, 9d6 Drain allocated 2/3 to DCV, 1/3 to OCV.  You can split any way you want, it doesn't have to be 50-50.  

What do you mean by -2 / -1?  -1 after the first round of fading...but -2 to both to start.  3d6, Expanded Effect (2 Characteristics).  Full value to both.

Yeah, why doesn't Drain work?  I'm much more in favor of a clean rules implementation that maybe doesn't *quite* match the SFX of source material from either fiction or a different gaming system.  That's just a translation.  Flash just isn't close.  Mental Illusions might work as a more appropriate baseline;  an illusion of being on an icy surface, or being tossed around by winds.  

Yeah, Fixed Point can be "a specific person."  I had to recheck that myself.  

Teleport Only to Fixed Locations is a listed -1.  Found that on further review.  If the intent was:

a)  NEVER have more than 1 duplicate (unless it got killed)  

then 

b)  this is the *only* allowed fixed location

that feels like it's worth more.  In fact, as I've described it, there's a Linked to Duplication for another -1/2.  And that would work even if there were multiple duplicates.

Yes, this is 10" @ 1 km megascale, with no other advantages (or probably limitations) planned.  

3d6 Drain to both OCV and DCV?  That'd give -2, typically.  Going the route of a Flash seems contorted.

Yeah, it is basically to a fixed location as written...so you're saying Only To Fixed Location is only -1 to you?

So here's the concept.  Character name:  Gemini.  Obvious power:  Duplication;  he splits into the twins.  The power in question here is a Teleport, with the limitation Only to the other Twin.  So Castor can teleport to Pollux, or Pollux to Castor.  But that's it.  Side point:  they also have a full Psychic Bond Mind Link, should you think that relevant.  

EDIT:  Yes, this also means that when NOT duplicated, the power can't be used.

I'm thinking it's a full -2.  Other opinions?

It's comics.  Continuity is fluid.  If I recall the Marvel Universe wiki on the quinjet...you're both right.  But actually, both are combinations of tech genius and WEALTH.  Stark and T'challa clearly both have 15 point wealth perks.  

BUT, this is also a difference between the game universe and the comics universe.  The comics universe has no concept of points, so there is no concept of "paying for" something with points.  Nope;  it's gotta be cash coming from somewhere for the materials, land, system components, etc.  That's why actually having some level of Wealth is helpful even in the gaming universe, because the concept of points is only on the player/GM side of the fence.  Having the money is very handy for story consistency.

31 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

So what I'm wondering now is should there be some connection between a gadget pool that can be infinitely varied, or a base, or a tactical vehicle, and wealth? I guess that the wealth is just "assumed" in these cases, but should it be a perk that a player must buy in order to have access to all these things?

Base or tactical vehicle where you put in the points...no, you don't need Wealth.  The points subsume that.  Besides, something like a Quinjet can't be priced.  They can't exist in our world.  And if I remember the Base rules, location aspects play a role in the point cost.  If it's the gadget pool where points have been paid...same thing.  I'd rather see points in Inventor, or Contacts related to picking up components, than basic wealth.  If you're talking buying routine, mundane stuff, then real-world limitations apply, such as availability, traceability, and legality.

55 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

Resource Points address a different issue from my proposed skill.  RPs are more about how much equipment you can carry, rather than serve as a substitute for keeping track of money.

Looking at that aspect in the Fate system (it's online)...the ideas aren't bad but the framework's quite different.  One point that's there...money is never an actual mechanic, it's an excuse to make the mechanic plausible.  For example, pulling off a bribe.  Mechanically it's a skill roll;  the money part says you have that as one of your bribe options.  Need to get to Paris to talk to The World Class Expert...money just keeps the game moving forward, letting you buy plane tickets.

I think a problem might be that the abstract notion of "money" doesn't cut it.  What is the point of the perk/ability?  What does money/wealth mean in-game?  In Hero, that's actually genre-specific...so well of course the rules are unclear as all heck,  You also get into a conflict, in supers, with the "must pay points for everything" aspect.  Taken to extremes, that's just ludicrous, but it creates the big gray area between Everyman gear that you want players to have, and items that should cost points.

What this really comes down to is that "what can I do with Money?" doesn't have a fixed answer.  It's something a GM needs to address.  It's dependent on genre and style issues.

Sidebar.

In a fantasy campaign...change it from being armor to being defensive bracers.  These *can* be worn 24/7 without the onset of Odious Personal Habits.

edit:  secondary thought, defensive bracers are quite appealing for many types.  No weight, not as obvious, no movement restrictions.  Even if these aren't codified as game hindrances, it's still the kind of thing that should be appealing to a character.

Yeah, ultimately it's a wonkin' big Side Effect.  I'd throw in +10 CON too.

I"d not use a 10d killing attack, as that's overkill.  Unless the intent's to just flat-out kill the person and there won't be a chance for a healer to save his butt...then 10d is fine.

I wouldn't use a Transform;  it says subvert, not becomes.  So it's more like Mind Control.

Last, these both have their own conditionals.  The killing attack may not be active until the armor's worn in combat (read:  absorbs some of the damage from a blow) or maybe after 24 hours of total wear.  The mind control or transform, from what you said, is more like weeks to months.  Which maybe says, do it as a Mental Transform, and set a VERY long Recovery Time.  Like a year.  (If the mind transform is once a month, then recovering 5/year means never, without taking the armor off.)

There's a logical downside here.  You are saying the individual quite literally NEVER takes the armor off, or it kills him.  So he's wearing it in the shower?  In bed?  That suggests a different route:  a Dependence (armor must be worn).  Separate staging...the dependence doesn't kick in for 4-6 hours, but once it does...it's once a turn.  At least the 3d6, and I'd have no issue if you said it's 3d6 doing Body from the get-go (not just after going unconscious).  

Dependence

--extremely difficult to obtain dependent substance (well, ok, here that's saying it's hosing you, and there's no other way around it)

--3d6 does Body (+30 points)

--6 hours before initial effect, but 1 turn afterward.  Call this a -5 overall.

And the demon subversion thing could also justify tossing in an Addiction.

The damage starts when the demon feels pain on its own, as he's being pulled back to his home.  It ends when that happens...perhaps 5 minutes.  Another aspect is, doing it like this allows the creation of an obsessive/addictive behavior...the wearer likes to take it off to clean and inspect his armor, which is like petting the belly of the puppy to the demon.

It's not even so much about resources but about choices you make.  Where do you shop for food...Wal Mart and the discount grocery chain, or Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and Bristol Farms et al.?  When you eat out, where?  Fast food, the feeding troughs like Golden Corral, a national chain like Olive Garden or Chilis...or a little hole in the wall local place that's not at all expensive but is really good, all the way up to a Del Posto or a Michael Mina?   When you're thinking money, it's how much do you have, and when you do A that means you can't do B.  When you're thinking lifestyle, it's the choices you make, which are not necessarily linked to cost.  

Understanding the distinction might take practice...which of course implies having enough money to be able to practice, and the opportunities to make those choices.

The grabber also needs some time to react, IMO, even if it's a different phase.  A has B grabbed on 3.  On 4, B tenses, preparing to leap.  Where to?  If it's 15m UP, then A can let go while and fall a few meters...no biggie, probably.  But if it's to jump 2m backwards into that cactus or wall...A doesn't have time to react.

Plus, trying to grab someone you can't really contain physically is generally a very bad idea, so I'm not inclined to make this a freebie.  Make it part of an Abort action?  Sure, because now at least it's costing A his next action.

No, true enough.  That's where the whole notion of "lifestyle" helps because it's largely independent of the vagaries of local costs.  Note, too, that's a family of 4, and that's pre-tax income.  It's not explicitly stated but I think safe to assume:  the wealth levels are after taxes, and considering the expenses of a single person.  Even so, $100K for me in the Southwest, is rather more than $100K in Honolulu, NY, or San Fran.

NOTE:  it's only largely independent when you've been to places like Corning, California.  A very nice little town, but......not much there.  Not when I was there a few times in the 80s anyway.  I mean, if an Applebee's is the height of fine dining, well, there's probably no such thing as a luxury lifestyle.

20 minutes ago, dsatow said:

 

Lifestyle changes the direction of the perk and comes with several advantages in game.  It releases its value as a quantitative money function and changes it more towards a role playing/character flavor aspect.

 

Another way to put it...and I wrote a bunch of stuff before recognizing this...Lifestyle focuses on how you're using your money in the everyday world.  Not the money itself.  

 

The point is, saying it's "lifestyle" says it's already allocated, rather than in the bank.  Think of it as the inventory of a store rather than the cash to buy the inventory.

No, it's not a big difference, but it is a mindset difference.  

Lifestyle means the money is already out the door, not that you have it to do whatever you want with it.

Shadowrun used Lifestyle.  It ended up with some indirect benefits, but security was a significant issue and that's where it tended to come into play.  But, you actually had to make the money, on your runs, to maintain it.

Something else you could do is tweak the wealth levels, then say that no PC can have more than something like 10 points...because the commitments inherent in a 15 point wealth perk preclude actually being a PC.  And, a 10 point Wealthy is $5M a year.  Again, presumably after taxes.  And with no job commitment that can't be pushed aside easily.  (And this is before reconsidering the levels, as was pointed out.)

I'd rather there's SOME cost for this, especially with starting heroes.  Otherwise, it's something most characters are gonna take.  Why do street level when you can do penthouse?  At the very least, there should be a limit to just how high you can go for 0 points...especially for starting characters, who are generally younger.

Mmm...stupid rule, for this.  Means there's darn near nothing that's "minor" with Transforms.  At least with regard to people.  I suppose that's why there's Aid and Healing, I guess.