Rick

First off, Gary we're now entering the area of concept execution. If I'm a Super Agent normal human being I don't want as a player to have exorbinent amounts of dex. To get a 15 DCV I need a 45 dex...that doesn't fit my concept of normal human being. Yes you can say it's cheeper, it's not bout cheaper it's about concept. Yes the martial artist given all of his levels he needs will not save on the lower Dex and spd limits, most others will though. Second off, Champsguy. If any of your comments are directed at me go and reread this thread than see what i'm actually talking about. Cap't only needs a 6-7 spd if 5 spd is what is common. You'll also note that my cap't isn't a 20dex 4spd. That would however invovle actually reading this thread. I also told no one that their brick must be a 3 spd.

point level has only a little to do W/power level. GM's set power levels, points don't set power levels. Given that on an average role the agent W/an 8d6 eb is still bouncing attacks off of the bricks Defences, I don't all of the dodging in the world is all of that scary, an Ak47 is what 2d6 RKA, ok lots of Rpd. And yes cars make wonderful add ons to str. One of the beauties of having a 50 strength.

Like we care if Dex is cheaper in the long run, it's the type of campaign it was. I wanted a peak human type guy, and in 4th ed they were very clear as to what that meant. If the only thing we concerned our selfs W/was: what is more cost effective, character concepts would slowly start sliding away. We develope a concept W/in the parameters of our GM's campaign and then everything else is just book work.

Gary you still haven't realized that this was a lower power level campaign 6d6 ebs weren't scary but could do some stun to my PC. Even When the viper agents roled out W/their 8d6 blaster our brick could roll three of in a a turn he liked a good challenge. I could have squeezed out a 5 spd if I'd of liked but I wanted the levels in DCV instead.

Ok he had he had 6 5 point dcv only levels and aplethera of varius 3 and 5 point combat levels. He had no range ability for the most part so I had no use for all around combat levels. Like I said lots of points.

Right the 12 dex 3spd brick W/25rpd 25red is really affraid of the agents W/there 6d6 baster who still have to roll under 11 or 12 to hit him. Yep he's shaking in his boots.

Well pariah the 4spd Martial artist, with cvs sitting around 14 worked a unit of 6 thug, 3 spds W/cvs around 6-7, like he owned them. No problem, it took about 15 minutes real time...maybe two full turns.

Morningtar that's why there are campaign limits, there weren't going to be 26dex 6spd dudes just floating around unless they were a party buster. I believe there was once a villian speedster who clocked in at a 5 spd W/gobbs of running...I kicked his lilly few levels having ass as well.

We also played a game W/Thing, Spiderman and Night crawler. Thing- 18dex 4spd Spiderman- 26dex 6spd Nightcrawler- 23dex 5spd Given that at 350 pts thing is really easy to right up, he cost about 320 pts 80str mind you, he ended up being able to hit spidey on a 13 or less. He would have wiped the floor W/the web head. Except that spedy would have kept him intanlged, still one bad role and roll over spidey. That was a fun game my players had a blast W/those characters.

I belive the Brick was a 12dex 3spd and the enery projector was a 18dex 4spd. I had them all by about 5-6 cvs and lightning reflexes +3. Really good agents clocked in about 15dex-3spd. I was the classic super agent guy. It was a lower powered game W/lots of character utility. The most powerful attacks were around 10d6. It was like a really versatle Xmen campaign. I've also played in games W/a 29dex 7spd Martial artist. I must say both kicked relativly the same kind of ass in there own enviroment. Remember it'a all in how the GM writes up the game. You seem really stuck in the conception that there is only one way to write characters up, there are many many ways and we enjoy them all in my corner of the woods. If anything we like lower Dexs and Spd's, it just saves points.

"Have you ever actually played a dex 20 spd 4 MA in a 350+ campaign? I've been playing and gaming over 15 years. I believe I know what I'm talking about when I say that this MA won't be competitive." Actually I have. He kicked ass. Remember 350 pts doesn't mean 6-8 spd it means lots of points. For us it means Options for skills, levels and powers.

You know We've been having this very same arguement for 3 years now...it always gets personal.

Ok I've never once mentioned a single house rule in this conversation. I've been posting on these boards since Bruce Harlick was running them, I think in tose years I've made my feelings on these issues most clear. This is about how we write up our characters, and how different we all think of these things. Morningstar if we're going to give you a stroke I suggest you sit down and relax, we're talking about hero character creation not the constitutionality of a federal income tax. All I've said is that I reduced the dex and spd of all characters in my games. Why to avoid this over spending on Dex and Spd and free up on average 18-20 points for my players. I said that you can write up a 35dex 6-7spd cap't for your own world or liking. I don't care all I'm saying is that he doesn't have to have attributes that high. I've had 23dex 5spd martial artist W/LOTS of C/L, W/out shields kick the crap out of whole units of agents (well trained 13dex 3spd), and wollop 6-7 expertly trained agents (15dex 4spd) with little trouble. That's what levels do. There are options in the hero system, there is no rule that says for Captain America to kick ass he MUST BE atleast a 6 spd. As far as your inane telepathy comment is concerned...I think inane says enough.

Oh yeah as far as the hero published characters go...they don't define how I write up my games, as I believe is obvious.

There in lies the trick everyone gets scaled to the appropriate level. Yes if a score of hydra agents W/3 speeds and 13 dexs attacked him, cap could W/the proper levels kick their asses. Hey in my world cap is a 23 dex 5 spd maybe a 6 spd on the high end. Hero is a scalable system, that's one of the beauties of it, we can both write up cap differently and they'd work properly in our own worlds. We aren't saying that cap can't be a 30 dex we're saying he doesn't have to be.

The only way a 20 dex 4 spd Cap won't be effective is if you scale your spd and dex towards the high end. In a game where spidey is a 26 dex 5-6 spd, a 20 Dex 4spd cap Will kick all kinds of ass. He'd, W/enough levels wipe the floor W/agents and because of his high CV's and other skill levels he'd give everyone else a damn good fight as well.

No... PC's doen't get disads for any Hunteds aquired during actual play. That's what ep's are for.

You're forgeting that Hero is ultimately a scalable system. If I write up spidey as a 26 dex, Cap as a 23 dex, Scott as an 18 dex and Bobby as a 15 dex, then the Hulk W/a 10 or 12 dex and CV's will kick all kinds of as. It's all how you in your game scale dex and speed.

Yeah Batman got raw on occasion in the animated series. Mask of the Phantasm: Joker: "Your going to kill us both" Bat's: "Whatever it takes" Batman Beyond: Terry: "How'd you know that the voices weren't actually in your head?" Bat's: "The Voice kept calling me Bruce." Terry: "So?" Bat's: "I don't call myself bruce." Terry: "What do you call yourself then?" Bat's: silence, and a knowing look at the cowl..... Terry: "I'm batman now." I could just Batman's Thought after that....as if your untrained ass was anything but my field puppet.

I hope I just missed it in this thread somewhere but how is it possible everyone forgot the greatest battle cry of all time.... "It's CLOBBERIN' TIME!!!!" -Ben Grimm, the ever lovin' blue eyed Thing. The greatest brick (as far as the actual character is concerned) in comic history. I still wish they'd let him Kick both the Hulk and Blondy's asses.

Then again maul seems barely stunned after being bifrucated.

I've often wondered about that myself. Any reasons why +1 stunx guys?

Hollywood? Bummer man. I was in Fullerton for 2 years recently, now I'm in Carlsbad. I grew up in Santee though. Back to the topic: Well of course we love to write things up, that's half the fun of hero!!! In game though, it's of far less important than the moment, drama and PC enjoyment.

Yes I've seen the FF or FW version of the Saber deflection for a full defensive action it works well. I see lightsaber combat as a lot of burning (aborting) to Block. Then someone misses their roll and the fight gets real interesting. So basicly they're manuvering for the advantage while blocking.

Maybe it's our San Diego water, beech, clean air (usually clean are atleast) or perfect weather that makes us willing to play a bit more freely NuSoard . Writing stuff up isn't the point for me anymore. Allowing my PC's to be cool W/in the limits of the world I offer them is the point. Sometimes points and rules be damned!!!!