Psylint

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks? Granted. Seems I just need to find a new game. I like my characters. I like occasionally getting tagged by a normal with a high powered rifle, and it hurting, a lot. Guess, I'm just out of step. Had the same issue with mental powers, everything but everything seemed to require Ego +30. Both Martial Arts and High STR characters are very efficient (I still think High STR is one of the most efficient builds possible). Either that or finish up my Sonic character. Looking over the things in the tired power thread, sounds like you could make a real monster out of it. As far as any fault in Hero System; I think it's a great system, decreasing the efficiency of STR, perhaps putting some kind of exponential cost structure to resistance probably wouldn't hurt. As far as bricks not being able to hit High DCV targets.. flyswatters, buses, aoes generally. For a martial artist to have the same effective defense as a brick, i.e. the ability to soak or ignore virtually all attacks, the CV gap has to be -8, and still 1 time in 200 or thereabouts, they'll get plastered. So if the bricks are running around at 20 DEX, and 3 H+H CSLs (OCV 11), the martial artist has to be 30 DEX with +9 general combat levels to DCV (DCV 19). Never being able to hit is no fun; hitting constantly to no appreciable effect isn't any better, in my not so humble opinion. Guess I should start my own campaign. There's just something that seems not right to me that your average hero has 10 rpd, so everyone is bullet proof except from the luckiest shots of the highest powered pistols, and darned good shots from most rifles? There was a solution a long time ago that I suggested to someone who wanted to be completely invulnerable to "normal weapons" a 14 rpd self only hardened shield wall. Nothing short of an anti-tank round has a chance of bringing it down, and so it would stop all Stun and Body damage from "normal weapons" 2d6+1 RKA. Of course, if it ever were brought down, the character was, relatively, otherwise poorly defended. Acceptable to me, not to the OP who wanted to be invulnerable. And yes, I play with munchkins. Haven't met the brick yet that didn't have some form of "brick-fu" +5 OCV with grab was always quite popular. So against these, my hypothetical martial artist has to take +12 DCV levels (60 points!) and to make it persistent 10 pts. for defensive maneuver. Many thanks, sometimes you can't see the munchkin for the trees no? Peace

Re: Thoughts on SPD Thanks for the feedback Treb. I don't have a problem that some characters aren't going to have a chance against others (my ice elemental that takes double damage from fire/heat, has all of her attacks partially limited by "not against LS. extreme cold, fire elementals etc., has no real chance, outside of intelligent play, when fighting a fire elemental); it's more that my experience with bricks has been that they can beat almost everyone without having to play in a particularly coordinated or intelligent fashion (those darned flyswatters!) and yet cannot be beaten by most characters 1:1, and by many even in groups, without at least moderately intelligent play. To pull out the Rock, Paper, Scissor thing... what is the Brick's Paper? The only one that usually works is some form of mentalism. And it isn't a true Rock/Paper, because the Rock can sure as heck take out the Paper if it gets its hands on it. And, by the by, that Paper works on Scissors really well too, and other Paper eh... at least some of the time. In actuality, I think it's more like this: 1. DCV is countered by AoE's and High OCV, Skill levels, maneuvers 2. Mental effects are countered by speed and initiative (i.e. smear the Egoist) 3. High Resistance is countered by NND, AVLD, Armor Piercing, Penetrating, Non-standardard attacks (flash, entangle etc.) The issue, to my mind, is that everybody but the High Resistance character goes to the hospital when countered, whereas the High Resistance character is usually only delayed, inconvenienced. My personal opinion is that resistances are way too high, even the Hulk and Colossus went to the hospital from time to time. Granted, often these were at the hands of beat downs administered by Gods, Nuclear bombs, heavily coordinated tanker divisions, but they did bleed. An individual with a 30rpd, doesn't bleed at 12 DC's. They almost literally, cannot bleed. Even at 16 DC's to use your example, it's an extreme outlier, (I can't do the conversion but that's like 5d6 +1 RKA? So that just shy of a 1 in 8,000 chance of taking 1 Body (all 6's)? at the cap for the campaign?). Besides, how many bricks have fallen with terminal velocity and walked away? (30d6 normal physical damage, chances are again about 1/8000 that they're not. though they may "rest their eyes" for a second or two.). I just think risk should be rewarded. Bricks take almost no risks, yet in your guideline they are "rewarded" with higher damage. Some folks think mental powers are "overpowered" and while they are quite powerful, they pay a hefty price for them: often low defenses and CV and the meta-game "smear the Mind *&$(*#." I think the energy projector and the martial artist "pay" for their damage with lower CV, higher endurance curves for the EP, and lower resistance on the MA side. Also, given the way aggregations of numbers and static resistances work, 16d6 normal damage is a whole lot more than 2 11d6 normal attacks. Think of a 16d6 normal Energy Blast, spread it to 4 hexes its 12d6, so you're hitting DCV 3 and effecting multiple targets. Got a hard target like your average brick, that 11d6 isn't going to even register, but 16d6? that'll do something, even if just for the knockback potential. Besides I think the source material "no chance" opponents are skewed north, that is to say I think Thor, the Hulk, Beyonder, Magneto and the like were built on twice, thrice or four times the points of the heroes arrayed against them. So, I'm not convinced that's a complete argument for the proposition, "Any brick reasonably constructed should be able to ignore most martial artists reasonably constructed and at least two or three of his similarly constructed friends." As I noted earlier, I'm fine with my character who is massively vulnerable to fire, gets owned by Nazi # 12 with a flamethrower. Just as I'm okay with my brick with no mental defense is Professor Xavier's butler. I'm not okay with the idea that no martial artist or energy projector can beat any "normally" constructed brick unless they are exploiting a vulnerability, susceptibility, or some unique aspect of the environment (Tk into Lake Superior, martial throw off the air plane, etc.) The problem isn't just dice of damage, but effective damage. 16d6 is often enough to take someone out of the fight by itself, 12d6 often isn't. To use your guideline, I would put it more like: DC (as points so 12DC is 60) + DC(Spd over 4 where positive) -(Active points of DC over 12 * SPD) + Active points of defense = C. The idea being to take account effect offense (which includes not only how many attacks you can make, but how hard each of them hit because 16 DC's is much greater than 2*8DC) and defense and attempts to balance it so that no is both invulnerable and hits like an atom bomb, unless they can't move. Peace

Re: Sonics - tired power, need new ideas Clonus, Relative to curing "shattered ear drums" requiring a medical procedure. Sure probably, I'm no doctor. But you could think of it instead as a targeted micro fracture of the stirrup bone, which would heal on its own, if it were lucky enough to be set correctly etc. Also remember, Body damage to the face would almost always require surgery in the real world, broken jaw, broken orbital bone, concussion, intercranial bleed, etc. But in the source material and the rules, characters get to heal at Recovery/Month. But if you wanted to have "ear surgery" as the immediate heal condition, I think that would be fine too. Ah.. durn it, there was another one, but I just lost it. Peace

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks? Lots of responses. 1. Relative to the Stun-o-Ray, does no body is a -0 lim, not -1/2 unless it's changed, attacks that don't do body also do no kb for -0. Besides, at 120 ap, 24d6 eb is probably more efficient, and besides in the particular campaign the cap is 12DC's and 80 active pts. 2. Relative to the "changing my powers to meet each brick" the character is part martial artist, part tinker with a decent sized gadget pool. Come to think of it, that's probably the root of at least some of the problem. I originally envisionaged using it for thinks like night vision goggles, transdimensional teleporters etc. but the group seemed to be coming up against bricks all the frickin' time, we don't have one, and my character has "issues" so I became the anti-brick. 3. 1 day on the PD drain, is a "realism" thing. I figure that acid so caustic that it literally strips away the opponents metal/rock/chitin exo-skeleton etc. would hurt enough that it would be similar to taking Body damage. 4. Buying more defense... a concept thing. I know a self limitation, but there you have it. And, more directly, defense wouldn't address my "problem." I'm content with being squishy, it's part of the concept; what I dislike is having to arrange an air strike, inter stellar war, or convenient vat of molten [unobtainable indestructible metal] in which to martially throw, TK, etc. some brick that's based on the same point structure. 5. GMs with spines. Yep. I hear that. I posted elsewhere that I think that high stun, body, con, pd, ed, recovery, regeneration should all be calculated as a single power (with modification of course) and then applied to the active point cap. I think someone who has 30 Con, 30 pd, 30 ed, full damage resistance has spent 100+ points on defense, if I can't spend more than 80 on offense, and can't have more than 60 that does damage, that should be addressed. 6. Relative to grab... the point I was trying to make is that 60 str brick that grabs, both reduces the targets DCV for a duration and does damage for 1 cost, in that particular case 6 end, assuming no endurance reduction/advantages etc. By contrast, an energy projector to accomplish the same effects has to use two powers as a multipower attack and pay 2 costs to do, most likely a 12d6 EB for 6 Endurance and a Drain Dex for another 6. 7. Combat Sense.... 1) Hearing Flashes usually do not result in CV penalties for the brick, because most are Sight based. 2) Yes you have to roll 11-, if flashed or in a darkness relative to the brick's normal targeting sense, but they'll pass it over 62% of the time, with +2, which costs 4 pts. that probability increases to just shy of 84%. 8. Relative to the "100 free pts." I was talking about the increase in the standard points allowance from 250, back in the day, to 350. As to what I did with my "100 free pts." lots of sciences, contacts, perqs, and some minor equipment of the interesting/useful variety IR cameras, electronic bugs, tracers, a tinkering lab.. 9. Relative to 6 cp's draining a full point of speed. I think you're wrong. I believe that adjustment powers only operate on full increments, so 6 cp's of drain speed does nothing until it gets the other 4. But correct me if I'm wrong with a citation to the FRED. Whether Martial Artists should be able to take out bricks? Well, to me Thor is a god, so that a mere mortal can't take out a god is okay. I also think that Thor is built well north of 500 pts. So I'm okay that my 350 martial artist can't beat up a god "twice his size." What I don't like, and the "trigger" for my hope for help, is the ability of bricks of similar power levels to choose to ignore several characters, and then proceed to beat up a whole team. Practical Invulnerability or very near to it, coupled with the ability to take out most everybody else in 1 or 2 shots. I'm okay with bricks charging machine gun nests and laughing at the little mortals, that's their thing. I'm less okay with ignoring other hand to hand characters. High resistance, high recovery, high stun, high body, coupled with massive damage, means the brick gets to do its thing "shrug off attacks" and "break anything," while the rest of us just don't. The energy projector's blast that burns through an Abrams tank, hardly tickles most bricks, the martial artist lands every attack and does similarly superficial damage. What I'd rather see, though I doubt I will, is bricks built with lower resistances and more damage reduction. 15rpd and 1/2 physical damage reduction rather than 30rpd, but it's more expensive that way, so it'll hardly ever happen. And for the love of Pete, the seemingly minimum 20 Recovery? Peace

Re: Model AVLD w/ an NND like defense Also a fair point, Dust Raven. I'm willing to go either way; I think it should be a limitation on the AVLD, but I can live without it. It's kind of like your powers with Incantations also don't work underwater (unless you have some kind of air pocket). Or the "problem of life support" why can my fire elemental bathe in an active volcano, but Nazi #12's flamethrower that's several orders of magnitude less hot causes damage through "shock." Hmmm.

Re: Thoughts on SPD Outsider, Just to clarify, you're saying that a 5 pt. difference between OCV and DCV is sufficient to make a "game of it" between a martial arts based character and a brick, assuming both are at the damage cap for the campaign? I'm presuming that you concede that often a low resistance character grabbed by a brick is, if not inevitably defeated, in a seriously bad way. The 5 pt. difference you propose means that slightly more than 9% of the time the "fight ending" attack lands. If the brick were allowed +2 OCV with grab; something in my estimation likely to slip under the radar of many GMs, the probability becomes slightly less than 26%. With just a speed 4, +2 OCV with grab, and a target that "stands up and fights" for 1 turn, the probability that the brick whiffs on all 4 of his attacks is just less than 30%, i.e. a 70% of winning outright in 1 Turn. With only a 5 CV gap (i.e. no levels) the brick whiffs on all 4 attacks in the first turn is about 68.5%. After 8 attack opportunities the probability of the brick missing with all of his combat winning grabs is 47%. After 12 attack opportunities, 32%. Note that that is all just pounding slugfest, no blocks, dodges, flyswatters, funky attacks or anything. At it's base, if High DCV characters and bricks have similar damage capacity (DC's) and less than a 5 CV gap, then it goes pretty poorly for the High DCV character. The counter to that is, of course, the martial artist could always dodge, which would bring the CV gap to 10, at which the brick is hitting on 3's. Then one must ask, is that a good solution? I'm dubious, because then, the SPD 6 martial artist, spends 4 phases dodging, waiting for the law of large numbers to tag him in a very bad way; and the martial artist really struggles to put out enough damage to overcome the resistances and recovery of a brick. Essentially a stalemate, that the brick is exceedingly more likely to win (their gamble, though low probability is also low risk, and needs to succeed only once; the martial artist has to gamble with his defense multiple times through a turn to have a prayer of laying on enough damage to overcome the bricks recovery). Personally, I think Treb's right; and that GM's should very much pay attention to maintaining that OCV/DCV gap, but experience has shown that few do. It is particularly difficult when you throw hybrids, energy projectors and the like into the mix. A character whose primary defense is DCV, gets pretty well owned by area of effect attacks generally, not just collapsing buildings and SUV fly swatters. One of the challenges, in my opinion, is that while the Energy Projector is losing 1/4 or 1/2 his damage dice, the brick who tosses a bus loses (depending on the campaign) few if any. I guess it depends on approach, personally, I'd prefer campaigns where hand to hand combat specialists, regardless of whether they are bricks, martial artists, or otherwise, are a legitimate threat to each other. Others may prefer campaigns where bricks are not in serious threat of defeat. So how to do that? Possibly, one could limit brick types to SPD 4, and start martial artists at SPD 8. The martial artist can then dodge each of the brick's attacks, and still have enough phases to potentially take down the brick. Alternatively, one could place limits defense globally, and include things like large con, stun, body, recovery, regeneration, aid to the same in that category. The idea being that all of the active points in all of these aspects are calculated as a single power for the purposes of the Active Point Cap. As a rough guide I'd say Cons over 25, Stun over 40, Body over 15, Recovery over 15 would all count for the purposes of calculating the "active points" of the single power defense. DCV would count as 3 pts. per at its maximum expression so the Dex 30 Martial artist with Martial Dodge and no other DCV modifiers has spent 45 active points. The exact formula needs refinement, but it may be a way to achieve the "All hand to hand specialists are a threat to each other" without forcing non-bricks to resort to bizarre stuff like drains, mental entangles et. al. Peace

Re: Thoughts on SPD To Outsider, While I appreciate your analysis, you fail to account for some very common tactics. 1. The first attack by many bricks vrs. high DCV targets, providing they aren't using a flyswatter, SUV, building, shockwave attack etc. is Grab. Once grabbed, the high DCV target is usually toast. It then becomes a matter of who can dish out damage more quickly. Some martial artists do take contortionist and martial escape, but then again over half the bricks I meet buy extra "casual strength" 2. You forgot block. Bricks can block strategically and then gain priority in the next shared phase... to Grab. 3. You forgot giants and their STR aoe HEX. How hard is it to squash a DCV 3 hex? Not hard. If the MA dives for cover, then they're at 1/2 DCV for the brick's compatriots. 4. You forgot tar baby damage shields (clinging)... hate those things. 5. You forgot taunt (Mind Control "Attack me") so that the brick can set up his block, grab, squish. Peace

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks? I guess the issue, for me, is the whole "defense is always a boat load less than offense" The acid trick becomes an arms race, bricks suddenly run around with 15 pts. of Power Defense and become essentially immune (12 DC damage cap, 6d6 PD drain/2 because it goes against defenses). So you add penetrating, they harden, you AP, they harden twice. Their costs 4, 8; your costs 30(60) and 60(120) (Violating the Active point cap and the damage cap; notes in parens are costs if delayed return is set to 1 day or thereabouts). Mental Defense is even cheaper and persistent. I buy head butt (5d6 AVLD; 60pt.), they buy 15 pts. of mental Defense (13 pts.) You use sweeps, throws, and other knockdown/back effects. They buy 1" of Flight or more likely Teleport with position shift (must travel intervening space) to model "jump up" or "rolling to feet." 0 phase action, they're back on their feet. You use mental entangles, they take Psych. Lim's and berserks (some of which are entirely appropriate to the character; I've known folks that'll just completely wig when restrained) in addition to the Mental Defense. Maybe I play with too many munchkins, but seems to me that buy spending around 80-90 pts. in defenses, Sir Grabs A Lot, can pretty much laugh at anything and everything with 12 DC cap or an 80 pt. Active pt. cap (especially since he's not really paying for offense; I mean with figured characteristics STR is better than free, and CON isn't far behind). I really hate grab, because it so easily negates a whole type of defense (DCV) and does damage for one endurance cost. Flash/Darkness... combat sense (17 pts) At 250, bricks had to have holes in their defenses, now with 100 "free points" they rarely do. Sure some bricks add the extra 50-100 pts. of "background skills" which I suppose was the original intent, but the Hulk clones out there really don't have a lot of skills/contacts/perqs. Apologies. end rant.

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks? I appreciate the responses, but I was thinking more like how to defeat a brick, rather than just frustrate or stalemate it. Sure my off the shelf martial artist is going the hold action and martial toss said brick to Manchester, but he's pretty much always coming back. Then again, so can the bricks with the ever popular shockwave attack... (EB AoE, no range, only on ground, double knockback, personal immunity), or toss a bus. I get the frustration a brick might feel, but on the speedy side; what happens if I miss with martial throw? When that DC-cap attack lands; I"m at least stunned, maybe KO'ed or even dead. One mistake and squish. Or, imagine a brick with a Mind Control "C'mere!" compelling my martial artist to come into range and attack him (I couldn't argue that that would require a high effect roll). Then the brick can block, and achieve priority in the next shared phase. Well timed... squish. Don't forget the tar baby clinging damage shields, extra Casual Str, etc. By contrast, if the brick misses the block... my monster strike (sweep offensive strike x 3) plinks off the armor, infinite stun, and superhuman constitution. That's bricks. Don't have a problem with that, but what I would like is a way to put the fear into bricks without having to resort to unabashed munchkinism (5d6 Body Drain comes to mind). I get that I have to be inventive, but alas nothing is coming to me. I suppose, if a GM allowed it you could leverage martial arts, two-weapon fighting, sweep, multipower attacks and 2 HKAs to put out 6HKA's (assuming you hit with so much -OCV; at a net 4d6 each (2d6 HKA + STR + Maneuvers) you'd still have to win the Stun Lottery, but it's doable). But would you allow that much concentrated offense? Maybe I'll just resort to my Head butt (EB AVLD Mental Defense, no range) and plink away. Or start throwing acid (Active Cap drain PD, effect over time, delayed return 1 month) Or hit 'em with the nerf bat (+20d6 HtoH attack, only against targets with 25 Def or greater). Just don't know

Re: Favorite Anti-Brick tricks?

Re: Sonics - tired power, need new ideas Thanks Bolo! I'm also tempted; y'know sometimes the inspiration just flows, so thanks to the OP for sponsoring the opportunity. I never really thought it'd run to such lengths, but looking back on it, I'm really proud of most of them (clinging excepted). It's been fun. Peace P.S. from Jmoz; EB AVLD flash defense hearing. Sure it's kinda expected, but I hadn't thought of it specifically. P.P.S. Clarity... character sets up counter harmonics to dispel white noise... Dispel Darkness vrs. hearing. (very important if you're going to take the Incantations limitation). P.P.P.S. Jigger.... character causes subatomic vibrations which cause electrons to skip and alter their orbits... Transform (okay, flag on the field) Defean.... character emits such penetrating sound it shatters the human ear drum.... Transform target to target with phys. lim. deafness heals back normally.

Re: Tricks for a Triplicator? Depending on how strong they are... Duplicate A, throws Duplicate B to Target T, then martial throws T back to Duplicate C, who throws T back to Duplicate A, compounding on the velocity damage. Duplicate A and B grab Brick Z, while Duplicate C uses the delayed phase, only against restrained targets power of much nastiness (HKA, AP, Penetrating is a popular choice). Against Bricks I'm a big fan of stacking annoyances, drains of all sorts particularly endurance and movement, stacking entangles... with martial throw, you probably could keep a brick on its back unless, like so many of them, they have flight/teleport with position shift. Other ideas... how about a hologram projector that projects additional copies of your duplicates so that the brick can't really tell which are actual targets? Probably easier and cheaper to model as a Summon holographic duplicates (though that's stop sign territory). Limpet mines... large RKA, no range, lim. to restrained targets, extra time, time delay. I like to add drains to my "dirty" attacks, like Gut Shot... HtH attack, linked with drain recovery, delayed recovery 1 minute. Head Butt... H+H attack, linked with drain stun Solar Plexus Punch... drain end.. etc. Hamstring.. HKA, drain Running, delayed recovery 1 month. Just a thought

Just throwing it out there for your thoughts. I've found Bricks, particularly since the move to 350, are much, much harder to deal with, without going entirely munchkin (Auto Fire 1 pip RKA's with multiple Armor Piercing and Penetrating advantages come to mind). So I thought I'd toss this out for more "legitimate" means of dealing with them. Many thanks

Re: Group invisibility? Thanks all I really think ghost-angel has come closest to what I was trying to do, though I'd make the radius smaller in practice. Much appreciated.

Re: Sonics - tired power, need new ideas Others... Voice Mimicry.... shapeshift, imitate only voices I Can't Hear Myself Think...So long as the character keeps up that infernal racket no one can think properly...... suppress INT, (optionally mental sense, mental powers generally) AOE, continuous Cherokee listening to the ground trick.... character amplifies vibrations through the ground the hear what is going on in a distant locale.... Clairsentience, Audio only, Usable By Others (character turns the air into a speaker). Sonic Cage... character sets up a field of extreme disharmony around the target.... RKA, Area Effect Explosion, Hole in the Middle. Quivering Palm... by setting up cascading sympathetic vibrations in the targets body, extreme damage is done to internal organs.... HKA. Reverb Rebalance.... by realigning the targets molecules into proper vibrational alignment the target is rendered "whole".... Healing (personally I'd go with PD, but it could work with Body, and maybe even Stun). Sonic Leap .... with air splitting clarity, the screech of the character lessens air pressure immediately in front of him/her allowing superhuman leaps... Leaping. Tell tale heart.... the character is so attuned to the beating of his/her close associates hearts, the rhythm of their breathing, etc. that he/she can find them at great distances by concentrating on the vibrations.... Mind Scan, only close associates, Cannot attack through link, (lim. power not available where target or character are in high vibration areas like piston factories etc.)... alternatively, and perhaps better Mind Link, only with others that have mind link, no LOS needed, or.... perhaps even better... Telepathy, Recieve only, Communication only, only limited information (location, general health status, general mood .... all told by the vibrations, heart and respiration rate)... worried about the LOS thing. Shatter Missiles.... Missile Deflection, up through shrapnel, Absorb Vibrations.... character absorbs and redirects vibrations used against him/her... Absorption (Energy? Physical? personally I think of sonic as physical, but YMMV) to Energy Blast. Sexy Radio Voice.... + Pre, only for purposes of persuasion/seduction where target can hear, but not see. **warning especially cheesy** Scrambling Quivering Palm... by using minute amounts of vibrational power, the character creates temporary handholds in the surface... Clinging. Enhanced Senses: Parabolic hearing et. al. Alternate Present... by vibrating self at hyper velocity, the character slips out of this reality into a concurrent parallel reality... Extra Dimensional Movement Parallel Present. Shhh!... Invisibility to hearing... character absorbs all of the vibrations that would otherwise emanate from him/her. Rumble.... character creates such tremulous ground that no one in the area can leap... Suppress Leap, Area of Effect. Actually seems like a pretty cool collection of powers, and it would make sense to have a whole lot of them in a multipower with ultra slots; I mean depending on the SFX you really couldn't throw out more than one vibrational power at a time. Just checked, if you include the cheese and the ones you started with, that's almost every power in the book. If you had it as "Vibrational" rather than strictly sonic, I could see putting in more of the defensive powers e.g. Vibrational Integrity... character keeps strict control of his molecules, hardening them instinctively against assault... Armor. or if it's under nominal conscious control ... Forcefield. And that's about all I got. Peace

Re: Analysis Thread: DCV Oddities Schir... 1. Yes, I have fired many rifles, pistols and recently took up skeet shooting. Of them all, skeet shooting is hardest, in no small part, for me, because you are aiming at a space ahead of the target rather than the target itself. 2. Even if I grant your contention that throwing a football and shooting are target are categorically different, might throwing a great big ball of fire be more similar to throwing a football than shooting a rifle? It seems, to me, that a great deal of the underlying subject matter whether energy blasts from Champions heroes or fireballs from Fantasy Hero mages has more similarities to throwing footballs than shooting guns. But let's not side step the point. 3. There are additional penalties for throwing things as opposed to standard attacks, in the form of a worse range modifier. 4. I'm admitting that the 0DCV character and the 3 DCV wall have issues. As you note later on, I have a hard time with "intentional clumsiness" I really don't think humans can will themselves to be so uncoordinated that they need a Dex roll to walk, aim an attack etc. I also diverge on your understanding of limiting STR to 0; choosing not to exert is entirely different from assuming a zero point. But if my understanding is wrong, please provide the citation so I can learn. But overall, I think it really is Mountain out of Mole hill. Relative to my friend bigdamnhero, my only point, coming from a recent shooting trip with some amateurs is that it's darned dangerous to be in a shooting group with someone who can't hit what they aim at. If you can't hit a barn door (literally in this case) please don't shoot in my vicinity. Peace

Re: Model AVLD w/ an NND like defense Fair 'nuff. My inner munchkin just cries a little. Thanks all. An' watch out for teh Ice Cream Cone Peace

Re: Sonics - tired power, need new ideas Other Sonic Powers or at least Vibration powers: Shifty.... Desolid based on the idea that the character vibrates his/her own molecules just out of phase with the object to be passed through, after all most of matter really is empty space. Phase Shift .... Desolid usable as an attack... see above. Animal Mimicry ... Mind Control, only animal class of minds, limited power only simple behaviors regarding instinctual calls e.g. the power could cause a herd of Water Bufffalo to stampede as that is an instinctual behavior that can be caused by a particular vocalization by a water buffalo, but could not cause a murder of crows to do so. Clear with GM relative to what kinds of things this can do, sort of like pre-generating a VPP. Creepy Theatre Music.... Mind control, human class of minds, limited power "Be alert! Something is Awry!" operationally this is cause wariness/nervousness/jumping at shadows. Noisy.... alternatively a simple PRE and/or EGO drain. Dispel Fire Powers, one at a time... okay, I admit it, I watched the Mythbusters episode, but it was kinda cool no? ... Character creates a series of low frequency vibrations that cause air movements which snuff flames. Damsel in Distress... character creates the sound of a shrieking damsel in distress (far away) to plague other characters with hero complexes... Images, Sound only, limited "piercing female human scream in peril" Compressed Air.... character sets up a series of vibration that cause the air to "bunch up" inhibiting flight during the duration thereof.... suppress flight. Better Falling through Screaming.... character thickens the air by creating sympathetic vibrations in the air.... gliding only to reduce velocity, only downwards. Zen Vibe... character absorbs vibrations... Invisibility to sonar. Sound the Charge! ... character replicates appropriate martial sound (bagpipes, bugles, drums, Audey Murphy yelling "Follow Me!") to encourage his/her compatriots to feats of heroism and daring do in a fit of adrenalin boosted courage, which eventually fades..... Aid PRE, STR, STUN, CON, area of effect radius, selective. Alternatively, you could conceptualize it as an "instinctive sound" e.g. claws on rock or nails on chalkboard, that causes the adrenal gland to flood the system. Tragic Harmonic... RKA NND, Does Body, Lim. power. only non-living, rigid structures e.g. steel, ceramic blades, bridges, extra time, gradual effect..... character sets up a reciprocating harmonic that causes rigid substances to shake themselves apart. Devastating Harmony.... character forms a counter harmonic to another character's sonic powers.... Aid Sonic powers, any one power at a time lim. power. 1 phase only. (essentially my thought is that you could use Devastating Harmony to boost the next power used by the other character, but the points wouldn't stick around). White Noise.... character forms a complex series of harmonics and counter harmonics that prevent persons within the area of effect from being heard... Darkness vrs. normal hearing. Silence... Darkness vrs. normal hearing usable as an attack... see above Dropsies.... character causes object in opponents hand to vibrate violently causing opponent to drop object... TK, whole object, only to grab, (lim. power only rigid non-living objects) Amplify... character amplifies ambient sound so that others can hear... Parabolic hearing using by others, area of effect radius.... or change environment +4 to hearing perception rolls.... Counter harmonic shredding.... character issues forth a counter harmonic on a previously effected target to increase damage.... EB partially limited power, only vrs. targets previously struck. Burn/Microwave.... character sets up an atomic harmonic, causing intense friction and heat in an inanimate object.... RKA, penetrating, armor piercing, lim. power. only versus rigid inanimate objects. More to come as I think of them.

Re: Power Help Paladin, I'm thinking a different construction 3d6 RKA, foci of opportunity: fire arm, active points limited by active points of firearm. What this should do is allow you to shoot up to a light anti-tank weapon using your own endurance. Also if the weapon had ammo you could, reasonably, use a multipower attack to attack both with the RKA above and the firearm's attack --> double damage, sort of. This is a lot less likely to run afoul of active point limits in most campaigns... 2 3d6 RKA's are a dime a dozen, but 1 6d6 RKA can kill a lot of heroes, besides that's more beat down than an Abram's main gun. To get the or Armor Piercing et. al. just add variable power advantage. On the summon thing, I'm kinda clueless, but as a GM I'd be awfully wary. Summons tend to get out of hand very quickly, particularly if they do not require the character to expend their own phase to accomplish them. Peace

Re: Sonics - tired power, need new ideas Sonic powers: Brittle, or sympathetic vibrations, Ranged Drain PD... character sets up a sympathetic harmonic that causes the molecules of the target to vibrate, loosening their structural integrity. Piercing Wail... Extremely annoying, piercing high pitched screetch that causes teammates to "snap out" of mental effects.... alternatively dispel mind control, mental illusions or mind control limited by "only for the purposes of degrading or overcoming another's mental power" Ye Gawdz that's loud... a cacophony so loud and noisome that individuals in the immediate area can do nothing but clap their hands over their ears and pray that it goes away.... Entangle BOECV, transparent to physical attacks, works on Ego not Strength, limited power deaf, hard ear covers etc. Alternatively... Mind control limited, implicit command "stand there, cover your ears and beg for mercy", non persistent, limited power, not deaf, hard ear covers etc. (probably the better construction really). Opera anyone? .... EB explosion, indirect, target of opportunity (wherever glass is), explosion limited by quantity of glass. Scramble thoughts... character emits constant barrage of piercing sounds which cause folks in the general area to occasionally lose focus... AoE Speed Drain. Lullabye... EB NND, deaf et. al.. invisible power effects (i.e. it "sneaks up on you") Shatter... Dispel HKA, limited power only rigid non-organic "foci" like metal/ceramic blades but not natural claws. Woe betide the weapon master's Independent Blade of Uberness. Sonic Boom... EB, AOE double knockback (I know totally upside down on the physics, but whateva). Tremor... creating sympathetic vibrations along a surface that magnify to great effect at the target... Telekinesis, Teleport UAA + position shift Off the top of my head, I'm sure they're more.

Re: Thoughts on SPD Diamond Spear, I don't think SPD 6 is actually "easy" for even the highest trained martial artist. If it were, show me the martial artist who can run 12 ft, snap off a reverse punch, side kick, and an axe kick, dive back, run another 12 ft. block 8 attacks, counter with 3, run another 12 ft. attack 3 more times, block 8 attacks and then run 24 feet in 12 seconds. What you see is a lot of actions being taken in sequence, in game terms multi-power attacks and/or consecutive blocks. Many martial artists train to attack in combinations of 2-4 attacks, some of them even adopt long kata to actual combat which can be combinations of 30 or more individual actions. Sure some martial artists can reduce their reaction time to particular events down to tenths of a second, but their response to such events are limited by training. E.g. a good martial artist can react to an overhead smashing attack like a baseball bat with an up-block very quickly, but they generally cannot react with a sidekick, or diving out of the way, unless they've trained that way. An action phase represents a character's ability to exercise full choice of action; what you see in high level martial arts competition is highly trained athletes with trained responses to particular stimuli. How many times in 12 seconds can even the most highly trained fighter completely change strategy? I'm thinking it's a lot less than 6. Peace

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero Nekkidcarpenter, Allow me to illustrate several reasons why "slow" characters should have "high" speeds. I once built an earth elemental character. Great fun, but part of the concept was large and long sweeping gestures as he manipulated the earth. So most of his powers required a full phase, many required concentration, and while most were ranged, the range was limited; the net result was that at Speed 3, he could move or use a power. Ultimately, this was shown to be too slow to react to events. I tried several ways to "get around" the problem: giving him super human levels of running, spending many phases with a held action, etc. but none worked as easily as doubling his speed. At Speed 6, he was one of the fastest characters on paper, but in practice he was right in the middle with the other Speed 3's and 4's. I think you need to look at the "number of actions/12 seconds" aspect. Might a high speed intellectual, lightning calculating, engineer character not potentially take 1 phase to analyze a technological device, 1 phase to disassemble it, 1 phase to jury rig it into something else, and 1 phase to shoot the evil Dr. Whatzitsname? Out of all of these actions only 1 is "combat." In practice my earth elemental got in 3 or 4 attacks per turn, which was roughly the same number as the other "really, really competent, but otherwise "normal" normals" did. Flexibility friend. Then again, in some conceptions the Flash was a scientist "hit by a lightning bolt." Peace

Re: How would you do this? I'm with the Doc, a multipower attack seems perfect for this, just add a delayed effect to the drain and you're good to go.

Re: Analysis Thread: DCV Oddities Um... no. Ever throw a football? Personally, I find it a lot easier to "hit" a stationary receiver who has stopped on the spot, than place the ball where he'll be by the time the ball gets there. I'll grant there's some difficulty comparing the stationary character and the hex sized bull's eye on the wall behind him having a higher DCV, but it's 3. If you can't hit a 3 DCV, you really shouldn't be shooting. You'll probably miss and kill somebody. Further, I would call foul on your premise "a character can consciously drop their DEX to 0" How uncoordinated can you fake? 0 Dex is extremely uncoordinated, having to make a Dex roll at 9- to move at all is a lot more uncoordinated than most folks can do without serious drug intervention (i.e. real world DEX drains). Peace

Re: Multiple constants Definitely one of those judgment call things. Stacking suppression from the same character.... evil. Multiple forcewalls.... depends, englobing multiple opponents no worries, englobing multiple allies, no worries... doubling up? if it's incidental, I'll allow it, that is to say if the principle purpose of the second wall that incidentally doubles up is to perform some other function... cutting off a door, protecting someone else etc. Multiple Darkness? could be a pain for book keeping, but no immediate warning bells. Multiple continuous Energy blasts, drains et. al.? no problem with that.