PhilFleischmann

Exactly. And it would also be nice to get to new role-players first, rather than as refugees from that other system. If we can get people so understand the flexibility of the HERO System, and see the the whole spectrum of role-playing possibilities, instead of having their ideas all focused into the narrow box of that other system. The idea that you can build and play exactly the kind of character you want. And you can play in exactly the kind of world you want. You don't have to beg for new options, and humbly wait for another dozen feats you can take, and say, "Oh thank you for allowing me to play a character that's slightly closer to what I originally had in mind."There's no finite menu of classes you have to conform to, no specific way that magic *has* to work, and no reason why you have to have the X ability before you can have the Y ability.

And how do we expect them to learn? By walking into a brick-and-mortar game store, picking up a HERO System book, and reading the first page? By first buying a HERO System rule book (at a brick-and-mortar store, or online), and only then reading the first page so they can find out what they just bought? I'd say at least 99.99% of people who have bought a HERO System book, already know what a role-playing game is.

That sounds like a fine way to sell movie tickets or adventure novels. Our primary goal is to get people to play the game. Those are very different things. I know a woman who was a big Doctor Who fan (old-school, Don Baker - which was all there was at the time. She went out and bought the Doctor Who Role-Playing Game from the 1980's because she was intrigued by the setting. But she never actually played it, because she wasn't necessarily into role-playing, and even to the extent that she might have been, she would have preferred not having to be so restricted by the setting. She already knew the story of Doctor Who, and it's not any fun to just play out the script that you already know. If we get a gaming group together, and we all love Doctor Who, and want to play this game, only one of us can be the Doctor. Tolkien's Middle Earth is one of the most popular settings ever, but it's never been all that popular for role-playing games. A Twilight sparkly-emo-vampire setting might also bring in girls, but I don't know how many will actually play in it more than once, and I don't want to play in it at all. Actually, they do. As anyone who played D&D prior to, say, 1990, can attest. Adventures existed in a vacuum. Many of them. You play the game, you play the game some more, you enjoy the game, you really get into the game, you play lots of adventures, and only then do you wrap a setting around the adventures - maybe.

A setting that some find intriguing, others will find off-putting. A setting that some find compelling, others will find contrived. A setting some find "epic", others will find boring. A setting you - or anyone else - comes up with, that the author thinks is the greatest setting ever, a large percentage of the general potential gamer population won't like. And the most obvious example of setting not being all that important is Champions - it's the real world, with superheroes. You don't need a world atlas specific to the setting, because a world atlas for the real world works just as well. The only "setting" bits are deciding what region of the world the PCs live in, which is presumably where the adventures take place (or at least start from). Sure, there may be some secret criminal conspiracies going on that don't exist in the real world, but the players don't necessarily know about them when the campaign begins. Likewise, with any good-guy superhero organizations. Note that the setting of Marvel Comics has been quite compelling to very many people for many decades now, and it's still just the real world with superheroes, despite the existence of Ironman's armor, the various aliens that have invaded, magic, etc. It's still just the modern-day real world, with all that stuff added. And why is all that stuff added? For the sake of the adventures.

You could also do this with item slots, like they do in some video games: Everybody can have one magic weapon, one magic suit of armor, one magic hat or helmet, etc., for as many slots as you deem appropriate, one for each body part capable of wearing it. And of course minor items, like one-use potions, wouldn't matter for this - you can have as many as you can conveniently carry.

Fair enough, but that's really two different goals: 1) To make a "complete" game, and 2) to draw new player interest in the system. I guess I'm not quite clear on what we mean by "complete game". So... what do we mean by it? For #2, it seems fairly obvious to me that the way to draw new player interest is with the ultimate goal of this - and every - game: to have fun. If you have some pregen characters and a ready-to-run adventure module, then you can jump right in and start having fun. You don't need to know the epic backstory of the world in order to start having fun. You don't need to know all the little details of how to build powers and talents with all their Advantages and Limitations, and END costs, and Base Points and Active Points and Real Points, and how to construct new Martial Arts maneuvers, in order to start having fun. ----- And re: electronic-vs-hard copy formats, yes, you print out the charts and tables you need to refer to often. Have them handy as separate sheets (or a GM screen - or a Player's Screen). You don't want to have to flip through the big book to find the right chart. The book is for things you have to look up only once in a while. And ideally, the computer only has to be turned on very rarely during play - and with a handy search feature so you can find out what is supposed to happen if a player tries to do something weird. Most of the computer/PDF work happens during preparation: character generation, adventure planning, world-building, etc.

I played D&D for years without ever thinking about a "setting" or a "campaign world". And it was still fun. All you need is the map of the location where the adventure takes place - the Haunted Ruins of Castle Hufarb, and maybe the village nearby where the players buy their equipment and supplies and meet up in the tavern, and all the people warn them not to go near those ruins, "No one has ever come back!" And then you need the map for the next adventure, and then the nest one after that. You really don't need the map of the land between them, where nothing the players care about is happening. You don't really need to know where Metropolis and Gotham City are, with respect to Chicago and New York, to play the game. Don't get me wrong: I love world-building, and I enjoy detailed worlds, and I love epic story arcs that tie all (or many) of the adventures together, but they aren't necessary to start playing.

If the GM says the moon is made of green cheese, then the moon is made of green cheese. The real moon that orbits our real world has nothing to do with the fictitious moon (or moons) that may orbit the fictitious fantasy world that we base our games in, or write novels about, or watch movies about. The players also know that there's no such thing as magic, or dragons, or superheroes, or FTL travel. ... absolutely nothing about the fictitious fantasy worlds that we base our games in, or write novels about, or watch movies about. Although I should mention, that I've been greatly enjoying your added details to the TA setting.

OFF TOPIC: Just a bit more about Everyway, and it's deck. The game itself is almost the diametric opposite of HERO. Everything is very free-form and not well defined. All of the crunchy details and math are gone. There are only four characteristics: Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. And there are no dice. You might describe it as a fantasy role-playing game designed by hippies. My copy of the game is packed away somewhere. Let's see if I can remember all the cards. They were organized into eight "groups" which aren't really like suits: The "gods" (8): War, Death, Knowledge, Law, Inspiration, Fertility, Trickster, Nature The "mortals/planets" (7): Priestess (Moon), Hermit (Mercury), Peasant (Venus), Fool (Sun), Smith (Mars), King (Jupiter), Soldier (Saturn) The monsters (6): Dragon, Gryphon, Unicorn, Cockatrice, Satyr, Phoenix The "errors" (5): Drowning in Armor, Fearing Shadows, Overlooking the Diamond, Sewing Stones, Striking the Dragon's Tail The seasons (4): Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter The animals (3): The Lion (body), The Eagle (mind), The Fish (soul) The "parents" (2): The Creator (mother), The Defender (father) The Usurper (1) - the Usurper card changes from realm to realm, and represents the unique influencing force that has a significant, if subtle, impact on the realm. And the usurper may change when circumstances in the realm change. If you were to make a Fortune Deck for the Turakian Age, the Usurper card would probably represent Kal-Turak himself. But the usual Usurpers are not usually specific people or concrete things.

I don't know what "our universe" has to do with it. An aberration? How many universes/dimensions/planes have you lived in? Dimensions/universes like that are actually quite common in the source material. If the gods indeed created the world, then they are in fact gods. If they created the world flat, and tell their worshippers that the world is flat, then they aren't lying. In my fantasy setting, the world is a torus. Although that isn't common knowledge among the people who live on it.

As opposed to the design and logistical nightmare that it is now? In an active-linked PDF, you almost don't need to worry about the order information is presented in, because you can link directly to another section of the rules when you need to. Electronic formats allow you to solve those logistical problems. Hard copy does not. If a particular rule makes reference to one other rule, then you can put those rules next to each other. If a rule makes references to multiple other rules, you can't put them all next to each other on a piece of paper, but you can link them together in an electronic format. Y'ever shop online? Y'ever shop out of a big hard copy catalog?

Maybe I've misunderstood you. As I understand it, it's not the object that is the trigger, it's the power. If I buy Teleport UAA, I can use it on anything I want - objects, McGuffins, enemies, allies, civilians, etc. But you're saying that if I buy it with a Trigger, that I can only use it on one specific item? And that if I want to use it on other targets, I have to buy each one as a Multipower slot? I'm not talking about summoning everything to me at once. I'm reminded of the Steven Wright joke: "You can't have everything, Where would you put it?" I'm talking about a limitation for the Teleport, UAA, Trigger, that can only ever be put on this one McGuffin, and can never be put on anything else. (That's why it's analogous to a Fixed Location. It's only to the front seat of *my* car, not the front seat of *any* car.)

Yes, that works. So how much for the Limitation "Only for this one McGuffin"? In other words, I can't place the Triggered Teleport on anything else,just this one object that is precioussss to me. And I also can't use the Teleport, Triggered or otherwise, on anything else, either. And then what if you want to do this on two different specific McGuffins? Three? Four? Seven? Buying them similarly to how you buy Fixed Locations seems to work, but it's not necessarily the only way to do it, nor even necessarily the best way.

I don't know. But I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be in the order I presented them. You might present a base character first - the default, generic guy with all 10's in his characteristics (except SPD and the others that don't start at 10). And talk about what this character can do. He can Run at a certain speed. He can punch for a certain amount of damage. He rolls 3d6 to determine if his punch hits hit target. He can pick up a rock and throw it as a range attack. He can use some other object of opportunity as a weapon. He can dodge, block, dive for cover, etc. He can Haymaker, he can Push. He can hold his phase or his attack action half-phase. He can see, hear, smell, taste, and touch. He can make presence attacks. He is assumed to be a "normal" person within the setting, so he has a job and a life and a background, and therefore, he has some default everyman background skills. And whatever default non-background skills he should have. And how he uses those skills. Anything else? He can decide what to do from moment to moment, just like any other free-willed person. Then say, "But your character isn't like this ordinary person. Your character is a HERO!" And you can have ability scores higher than 10, and you can have additional powers, and skills, etc. And all these things are worth a certain number of points, so that you and your other players are all equally powerful heroes (otherwise it wouldn't be fair). And the GM decides how many points you have to spend, and you can buy whatever you like, as long as you can afford it. And you can take Complications that will make your characters more distinctive, while also giving you more points to spend. This. Electronic, clickable links. How many people into RPGs, or who want to get into RPGs, don't have some kind of computer that can open a PDF on? I don't know how innovative it is, but it really should be done this way. Who uses a hardcopy encyclopedia anymore? And the whole "What is role-playing? What is a role-playing game?" thing should not be part of the rule book/PDF at all, but should be available for free download/viewing on the website of EVERY RPG publisher. (And no, it doesn't have to be the exact same one for each.)

Okay, last time I'll say this and I'm done: It makes no sense. It's illogical and inconsistent. It does not "offend my sensibility of what is right and proper". It doesn't make me "uncomfortable". It only disrupts my willful suspension of disbelief. It prevents me from feeling immersed in the setting. It reminds me that I'm sitting at a table in the real world, in the 21st century, playing a game. Rather than helping me to feel like I'm a heroic character in a fantasy world. I never said it was inherently wrong. But it does make it feel like the characters are all the butts of a practical joke. That's not the kind of setting I want.

I'm not sure what Trigger has to do with it. If I want to teleport something to me right now, I'm just going to do that. I don't want to set up a Trigger that goes off later. It's just the "Accio" spell from Harry Potter (except that Accio would probably be built on Flight, UAA, rather than Teleport, UAA). So if you don't think a Fixed object to teleport to you is worth the same as a Fixed Location to teleport yourself to, then how much do you think it should be worth?

For a "complete" game, you need: * Pre-generated characters for the players. You don't need to explain all the chargen rules, or even talk about point costs at all. Just a character sheet of all the things about the character that aren't necessarily part of any other character. * Rules that cover all the things that the characters can do. You don't need all the rules governing each power and skill and talent, or how any of them are built.. Character A has a 8d6 Armor Piecing Blast, so you explain that when you hit, you roll eight dice for damage, and the target only gets to subtract half his defenses. * Rules of general combat that apply to everyone in the game (including NPCs). * Rules of non-combat stuff that apply to everyone in the game (including NPCs). Everyman skills and such. * In case players are not familiar with what role-playing is, maybe some explanation of that. "You are a person, and you can do whatever a person can do. You get to decide. You aren't limited to a set of predefined moves like in a video game. * An adventure module to play, complete with enemies or whatever other NPCs are involved. And any other rules for the setting. * Maybe one or more additional adventure modules, with different kinds of adventures. In one, you foil a supervillain and his henchmen trying to rob a bank. In another, there is no villain, and you simply must rescue innocent civilians from a burning apartment building. In a third, a series of crimes has already been committed, and you need to figure out whodunit and bring them to justice. etc. The author of such a "complete" game can do all the pre-play math for the players, and not even bother showing it to the players. (Obviously, the players will have to add up their own dice, subtract damage from their STUN/BODY, track their own END, etc., during play, themselves.) You do not need a setting. No, you don't. Once the players get through this. You can delve into the details of how their characters are built, and how each of their powers are built, and how other kinds of powers could be built. And you can let them use all these rules to build their own characters. And then you can tell them that these adventures they've been having all take place in this larger world, where various stuff is going on that they might be interested in.

Correct. The idea of buying a Fixed or Floating Designated Thing that you can teleport to yourself is a new construct, as suggested in the first post of this thread. It seems to me to be of comparable utility, and therefore, probably worth the same number of points.

To me, that would make them the *only* gods of the TA. One of the essential, definitional aspects of a god is that it came before the world, or before mortals - and most likely created the world or created the mortals. To say that mortals created the gods is bass-ackwards. It completely disrupts my willful suspension of disbelief. It ruins the immersive experience. Sure, it's fine if you want to run a silly game - I enjoy silliness, too. But if I'm playing in a "serious fantasy setting that's intended to feel as real as possible, then it shouldn't break the fourth wall and include modern-day, real-world memes in it. And the priests of Thun still get their spells, don't they? I can't think of any aspect of them that makes them not gods. They are cosmically powerful beings that predate mankind, grant "divine" spells to worshippers, and have a consciousness and a will. And they presumably had some involvement in making the world what it is today (even if they weren't involved in the initial creation). See, that makes even less sense. This little demonling, build on 25 points, with no name and no personality, exists because someone prayed it into existence? Because someone had "faith" in it? I'm reminded of the Monty Python sketch where they build apartment blocks by hypnosis - enjoy all the comforts of modern living, as long as you believe the building exists. All I can think to say is, "On second thought, let's not go to Ambrethel. It is a silly place." Fortunately, one can still play games in this setting without including all this silliness. And it will presumably play almost exactly the same. Great. So the gods of Ambrethel can be created through these "true gods", which all predate the creation of the world and the mortal beings in it. The known gods of Ambrethel (Kilbern, etc.) are perhaps mediaries between the "true" gods and the world, so that they can be better understood by mortals. And the "true gods" can change them, eliminate them, or create new ones, as needed - like every time there's a world-wide cataclysm.

Good advice here so far. The One of the first questions you should ask yourself is: Will this be a deck of separate cards, each with its own name and separate concept? (Sometimes referred to as a "cartomancy deck.) Or will it have suits and ranks like a regular traditional card deck? Or will it have both ranks and suits, as well as separate "special" unique cards that aren't part of any deck, like the real-world Tarot? (And yes, generally speaking, any such deck used for fortune-telling can be called a "cartomancy deck", but some people make more specific distinctions.) Having suits and ranks might make it a bit easier to design, as you can pick some number of suits (doesn't have to be four) to represent some broad categories of a person's fortune. For example, a suit of coins might represent the querent's fortune with regard to wealth and money - a low-ranking coin card means poor monetary fortune, and a high-ranking coin card means great monetary fortune. And once you've got your suits and ranks figured out, you can always add more special unique cards for any other concepts you want to include. If you're willing to put in the work, I'd recommend a deck more specifically tied in to the setting. Perhaps there could be four suits of Men, Elves, Dwarves, and Drakine. Or three suits representing the Blue, Scarlet, and Gray gods. Or perhaps five suits representing Meara, Kilbern, Almandre, Mordak, and Varidon, with a special card representing Ziandwyrth. Or whatever. The possibilities are unlimitless. I know of another game system that includes its own "Fortune Deck" of 36 cards: Everway. It's a pretty interesting deck, and could easily be adapted for any setting. Let us know what you come up with!

If you're driving the car, then the ability to teleport to it is useless, and so is the ability to teleport it to you. Those abilities are only useful when you aren't near the car, or when someone else has moved the car. No. To teleport an object to you, you need UAA or something like that, as in the original post. The idea of teleporting objects to you with the object being a fixed location is a new construct, not in the rules. It seems fair and appropriate for the inverse of the normal Teleport power - teleporting yourself (from any location) to some fixed location, the opposite being teleporting some specified object to you. Teleport UAA would allow you to teleport an object you see to some other location you can see. A Fixed Location adder would normally allow you to teleport an object you can see to that fixed location, as long as it's within your range. The idea of an object as a Fixed "Location" for a UAA Teleport so that you can teleport *it* to you, instead of you (or something else) to it, is a new construct. Perhaps a new word is needed. We can use "Fixed Location" for the teleport destination. Perhaps we can call these "summonable objects" "Fixed Targets" or "Fixed Subjects", or something like that. These things should be bought separately, IMO. And I wouldn't charge anything for "to you" as a fixed location. So if you want to Teleport yourself to the driver's seat of your car, even when your car is not in LOS, that's a regular Fixed Location. If you want to teleport your car to you, that's a Fixed Subject, and needs to be purchased separately - but it's only 1 point, in addition to having to have UAA on the Teleport. If you bought a Fixed Subject and a Fixed Location, with a UAA Teleport, you could teleport the object to the location even if neither of them were in LoS.

What about the gods of Thun? They seem to be "real" gods, not created by the beliefs of mortals, nor "fed" by prayer, nor influenced by mortal beliefs. None of the classic mythologies include the idea that the gods are created and shaped by the beliefs of mortals. And neither to Tolkien's gods in The Silmarillion. I don't know of any fantasy literature that includes gods, that also includes the idea that they are created by mortals, and not the other way around. Granted, I'm not an expert on fantasy literature, but AFAIK, most of the gods of "classic" fantasy literature, work the same way as Tolkien or classic mythology. Lieber, Moorcock, Lovecraft, etc. And within the Turakian Age, what about the demons, and other supernatural beings that are worshipped? Are they also created by the belief of mortals? How far down does this go? Demon "lords and princes", demon dukes and barons, demon henchmen and underlings, all the way down to the nameless demon hordes?

Not really. You can only teleport to where that car *is*. And you don't have complete control over where it is. If you cut a red X out of construction paper, you can buy that red X as your fixed location. If you can move that red X anywhere you want within your teleport range at will, then it's just a "special effect" of your teleport, and possibly a justification for Extra Time - however long it takes to get the red X to the desired location.

Yeah, good point. I think it's still worth some limitation though. If you can't just throw the sword all the way to the doorway of Mount Doom and teleport there. Simply not buying the object as a focus is certainly a way to always teleport the item to you - but only if that item is a purchasable power. I suppose you could always buy a one-point power through the item, and not buy it as a focus to always have it available, though. Actually, it's still a Fixed Location, partially because you are not the only one who can move it. If someone steals it and takes it to their lair, you may be teleporting yourself into a trap. An item or a living person, or other movable object or location is still a Fixed Location. If you can change it to some other object, then it's a Floating Location.

I don't think you get a limitation for that. That's just how the Fixed Location works. However, you would get a limitation for "Only to Teleport to this One Particular Fixed Location", which is probably at least a -2. And the fact that the sword isn't fixed in one location, has as many advantages as limitations. You're standing at the edge of a very high cliff, with no way down. So you throw the sword down, and teleport to it.