Sicarius

On 5/31/2022 at 1:58 PM, Grailknight said:

I would do it as a Multiform triggered by Regeneration from death by the main form with No Conscious Control. The Multiform would also be Limited (Can't Revert) until the damage is repaired(Soulcatcher) or has an additional form when provided with a substitute body(Limper).

But would this limit him to a single form when it might be -  Multiform, no body below chest,  Multiform - Head only,  Multiform- 1 arm, shoulder, neck and head?

It seems Multiform is limited to a specific alternate form, (unless I am mistaken), and there is a bit of ground to cover here.  That's way Transform - major seems a bit more likely to me.  But I'm a noob and could be missing something more obvious.

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

You can transform anything into anything else, dead to alive is definitely in the options.  Especially since the origin of Transform was "if you can kill someone with this many points, then why can't you change the in other ways?"

 

I mean you can do it with Healing but its either more expensive and tougher to do with Transformation (major transform to a body, either a bunch of transforms cumulative to the target, or one really big transform) so its not like you're cheating or breaking the rules to do so.

So do you think a Life Keeping Spell which automatically triggers upon death a Transform - major would be the best way to handle this RAW?  Its the best I can come up with unless perhaps a spell which made the character a mummy or lich like creature before the death and only total burning would kill him DEAD.

I understand I might be revving the systems engine but a system which can reproduce Superman, The Vision, Hulk or Doctor Strange seems powerful and flexible enough to do this without resorting to a hand wave.

It's pretty cool we can banter about this and explore options. Most systems don't have enough tools to even begin. I admit I am a technician and tinker in everything and for myself systems and tools are like playgrounds and toys. 

1 minute ago, steriaca said:

Transformation doesn't work that way. All you can do is keep the corpse from rotting and maybe put all the loose parts together. 

 

To actually bring the dead back to life, you need the Healing power with "Reseriction" adder. Note: the Transformation power to preserve the body will give you time to get to a healer (cleric) with the nessisary Return To Life spell.

 

Of course, beyond the game not having that option, it doesn't mean you can't just G.M. Fiate such an effect. It is Your Game after all.

You cant use transform to turn something into something else?  Like a single organism into a sort of hive organism or living head minus a body?  I can turn a man into a frog, werewolf or needle fish but not a head?

I was thinking the transform makes whatever is left of the old creature the 'new' creature and resurrection or healing of some sort brings it (back) to life.

I know I can hand wave all the tools I just bought but I'm testing the Ultimate Tool Kit.

How do you make a mummy?  Its basically a dead body that can get chopped into parts and still live.  So upon death a 'Make Mummy' spell is triggered and now SoulCatcher is a mummy, (or Lich).

So I guess with that said, can HERO System be used RAW to devise a Make Mummy or Make Lich spell from a corpse? 

If so, that might be a logical starting point.

Now that my mind is percolating perhaps I should check the Grimoire and see it one exists.🤨   I certainly do appreciate everyone's thought I this. 

Truth of the matter is I run ideas like this through HERO, GURPS and BRP to see how and if each tool kit can built the project WITHOUT resorting to a hand wave.

On 6/7/2022 at 9:37 PM, steriaca said:

Nope. You can't actually be decapitated (which is a neck wound by the way) until you hit negative twice your body and take a neck wound as the final blow.

 

Of course, to remove a head without killing take a Transformation Attack instead. 

This is why I'm thinking a

Life Keeping Spell - transformation triggered by any death other than total burning.

It transforms you into living remains of ....whatever remains. So I suppose it also need to include resurrection of some sort. 

And your limited by the form. 

If the tongue is missing then no verbal.  Fingers, no gestures.

I know I could 'plot device' it and do whatever I want. That also works for D&D, BRP, CoC, and every other rpg.  Right now I'm blowing the horn and if the dog don't hunt then BRP might be a better choice.

1 hour ago, Grailknight said:

I would do it as a Multiform triggered by Regeneration from death by the main form with No Conscious Control. The Multiform would also be Limited (Can't Revert) until the damage is repaired(Soulcatcher) or has an additional form when provided with a substitute body(Limper).

That seems like a good way to do it.  HERO is cool but its sometimes like having tons of ingredients and no recipe.  I suppose once you learn how to cook it becomes less difficult.  Right now I'm trying to think of various characters in books and movies and how to best represent them using the system.

Thank you

For those of you who have read the Black Company you know the Taken are hard to kill.  Limper gets his head cut off and a demon-dog carries around that head getting shamen and then priests to build him new bodies. Once of wicker than of clay.  Soulcatcher gets her noggin chopped off by Croaker and years later she forces him to stitch it back on.  In the mean time she walked around carrying her head in a box and was able to function yet at a limited level.  She was still able to summon an imp, cast sleep spells and perform other sorcery.

In GURPS hard to kill could likely cover this.  How would you build it in HERO as a power, ability or spell which I might call Life-keeping?  Life support, regeneration and heal all seem inadequate and I am leaning to some type of transformation triggered by terminal damage which keeps the critter alive but at somewhat less than 100% based upon that nature of the wound.  Without a body limper couldn't speak presumably because no lungs equals no air flow.  That meant no spells which required gestures or incantations.

Anyhow, I still messing with HERO and this one has me stumped.🤐

Thanks in advance.

M

2 hours ago, Spence said:

When they finally cornered the warparty they discovered the only part that was Apache were the skins......

 

 

That's one way to handle it!  Make them speak German and you could sell it to Netflix. 😉

That sounds good especially cause I don't know if you're allowed to shoot whooping savages anymore😃

 Once upon a time we played a lot of boot Hill and had a lot of fun

My post is in response to a ongoing rant in favor of criminals over police.   The child is a minor point.  Haha!  See what I did there?

Once again, we do know what was going on with that kid so neither you or I can speak intelligently about what the police should have done.  I have no idea why that was done so I'll reserve judgement. Right now its is just an emotional reaction based upon a visual image and untrustworthy news outlets.   

For all I know she had just slit the throat of her baby sister. 

Time enough to roast them, if warranted, when you have the facts. 

Ruby Ridge and Waco were both a travesty justice and Janet Reno and the officers involved should have been held accountable for their crimes. I am all for bad cops and officials getting harsh punishment. Death peanilty included if warranted. 

I say this after the facts came out, which were nothing like the media or officials initially portrayed.  

As for many of these other creeps I say good riddens.  Not based upon age or color but upon their history.  I dont want St Floyd types around my wife or children. 

I again caution against jumping to conclusions based upon some biased 'propaganda' piece where the facts are second to sensationalism and ratings. 

Crime in the US is not crime in Canada.  What's the chance Captain Canada has a handgun?  Canadian criminals are guys who hand out incorrect change at McDonald's.  😁  Resisting arrest in Finland is saying, 'I dont want to go'.

Each situation needs to be truthfully evaluated.  Judged based on facts, not a half informed emotion reaction to a preconceived world view. 

Statistics are not facts.  29 killed by cops does not say why they were killed. Only that they were. 

What you did to X on day 1 has nothing to do with what you did with Y on day 2. 

Give the good guys the benefit of the doubt until the investigation is over. There is a reason they responded to a call in the first place.  Do you think?

Why were the cops called?  A crime in progress perhaps?

How about a thread enumerating all the innocent victims of these media driven riots and defund the police advocates?  Nah!  That would paint criminals, ANTIFA, and the anti-police advocacy groups in a bad light and we all know they are truly the good guys that we want as babysitters and teachers. 

I personally believe most cops have better things to do than get vilified, thrown off the force, tossed in jail and have their family's threatened so when they respond harshly you can dam well bet most of them thought they had a good reason. 

But this, like religion and politics, is an issue based upon ones reasoning, moral compass and up bringing and I don't expect to connect with anyone heading in the opposite direction. 

So with that I'll move on to more constructive topics and say good day to you from the other side of the blue line.   Over here we silly folks like to give the police and soldiers the benefit of the doubt before siding with the criminals 

41 minutes ago, Spence said:

I am really looking forward to this. 

 

All the recent games I've run in the old west have been Down Darker Trails, which were well received.  I'd love a Hero version I could tweak into horror 😈

Is that the chaosium coc game. 

2 hours ago, HeroGM said:

 

In the fullness of things do we really know what anything is about?

 

How about Combining as a form of Multiform? Or would you mix it in with Duplication?

I would say no to the first and I'll have to look into the second. 

Odd how I started this post and now I have no idea what it's on about.🤔

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a partial Transfer rather than godlike levels. 

For example: You attack someones 12d6 Blast power with your 10d6 transfer and roll 30.  So you drain 6d6 of his Blast for the drain duration. His Blast is now 6d6 and you gain that 6d6 Blast. As he regains it you loose it.  Each 5 points return 1d6 from you to him.  Perhaps you can only transfer as many character points in abilities as you spent on Transfer. Make the cost something like 10 or 15 character points for 1d6 of Transfer and limit him that way.  Or maybe a 10d6 Transfer power would transfer a total of 10d6 worth of abilities. 

Another built In limitation is that he can only mimic the same general ability from 1 source at time. He can't add together the Thing and Thors STR this way.  Maximum drain would be the greatest of the two yet limited by his own character points spent on Transfer. 

If he drained enough to get 3d6 Strech from Mr Fantastic, 4d6 entangle from Spiderman and and 3d6 Flight from Torch he would be at his 10d6 limit until he released the Transfer willingly or waited for it to drain enough to get some more goodies. 

The best way to take this sucker down is with nomal humans armed with sticks. 😁

Heck, I'm just playing with ideas as the Hero system really gets the mental juices flowing.  Every day I get at least one new "how would I do this" thought.

Unless I am missing something Aid says specifically that it cannot give one powers or abilities they don't have. For that use Transform. So Aid and Drain do not seem to combine correctly for this usage. Maybe Stormbringer because it really does not give Elric abilities he does not have but I'm thinking of a Leach who drains an ability and gains it for themselves.

For example.  The Suckerfish drains the torch of x amount of Fire Blast and now can use this power himself for the duration of the drain.   As the target recovers he loses an identical amount. Later he drains the Thing of some STR and gains it himself.  If he drained the Thing of PD or ED I would have him start looking like the Thing as the Thing started looking more like the old Ben Grimm.  So if Suckerfish we able to drain the Thing of all his over normal super abilities he would become the Thing while the Thing reverted to Ben for the duration.

For this I would think Drain linked to Transform, (level determined on what is drained), with a limitation that power or ability drained may only impart identical power or ability and only to self.

Now, what about the fiendish Dr. Xerox with the groping hands, who can copy x amount of the Thing but does not drain the Thing?  This seems like a level of Transform based upon the level of copy, (appearance, voice, powers), with a limitation of must copy some aspect(s) of a person he has physically touched.

So where am I confused and going wrong?

Thanks for the help in advance!

1 hour ago, Jhamin said:

 

You aren't wrong.  Back in Fourth there was a "Transfer" power that worked the way you describe.  It was removed because it was basically Drain and Aid mushed together and Steve Long felt it was cleaner just to have the two powers each do their thing rather than have a 3rd one to worry about.

 

I miss the simplicity of Transfer, but the new way works fine.

Odd.  Its such a staple of fantasy and sci fi to have a Leach or Transfer power that splitting them seems more like dividing chicken noodle soup into ingredients and calling it a simplification.   I do get the desire to break everything into basic building blocks yet some things are better left whole.  Like Time Travel broken into:

Time Travel Power

A -Make a Time Door using Time Mastery power.

B- Link Time Door to Open Door power

C-Link to Movement-Walk power

If you want carrots or peas in your chicken noodle soup you can use an Advantage and if you don't want noodles then use a Limitation. 😉

Everyone has an idea of what should be the basic power molecule and Steve is the author so ultimately I have to respect his decision.  Yet being the GM I would suppose its totally fine for me to add new basic molecules if I choose.  But I'm not sure if that is necessary or even what is best without trying it so basically I'm just blowing gas at this juncture. 😝

39 minutes ago, archer said:

Under 6e rules, that's usually built as a Drain with an Aid that's linked to the Drain.

Thank you.  I have yet to get to the link rules but remember something like that from 4th ed.

Likely I'm blind and certainly I still ignorant of Hero as a whole. I am looking for an attack which directly drains some characteristic or power and adds it to yourself/user.

Absorption seem to only act against an attack and Drain doesn't transfer it to the attacker.

Unless I'm missing something.

Thinking Rogue, Elric's Stormbringer, etc;

Thanks for the help!

I might suggest that any game system coming in at somewhere around...oh...2000 pages, (HR1,HR2,APG,AGP2,etc), is fertile ground for the would be rules-lawyer.

11 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

Illegal in 4th because Multiform is a special power. Perfectly legal in 5th and 6th because Steve long made Multiform a standard power.

 

I don't agree with the change but that is the RAW. I house rule it back to a special when I run.

Legal shemgal.  Take a page from the politicians and do whatever you want safe in the knowledge you will not be prosecuted. Prostituted most definitely. But never prosecuted. 🤐

21 hours ago, Spence said:

 

They went from publishing actual playable RPG's to publishing the rule structure to create your own RPG.

 

 

Exactly.  But I would propose that in addition to those two product types, "Hero Toolkit" and the "RPG  built using the Hero rules in the background".  Another one is a smaller "introductory" product that contains a "starter" game designed to allow the players to actually play a few sessions using pre-generated PC's and a pre-built adventure.  This allows them to "test drive" the game such as a generic Fantasy adventure.  Game play would present everything without any annotations or costs on the character sheets or stat blocks.  An appendix at the end would have full write ups for reference later.  

 

A person buys Fantasy Hero Complete but get hung-up because of the lack of pre-built spells and stuff.  I know of too many people that bought a version of Hero and then gave it up because they could not just play it.  So you have a "Intro" package, maybe via HoC, that presents a "generic" and complete adventure they can just play.  After seeing the game actually in play they will have many of their questions answered and can go on to their own ideas or just expanding on the intro.

 

 

I think your right.  Like a D&D starter kit or GURPS boxed fantasy set.  Right now Hero is not really geared towards the casual or new player. It is geared towards a subset of the most aloft, egotistical, megamonicial control freaks in the rpg community who want mastery of every nook and cranny of the universe in question.  BWAHHH Haha... where did that come from? 😯

18 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Who calls an Asterisk a s ---

 

ah, never mind.  It's probably that same group of lunkheads that have no clue what an octothorpe is....

 

 

 

Ya! Exactly what I was thinking. 🤔

1 minute ago, Duke Bushido said:

Off topic:

 

I _know_ what it means; you can skip that part.  Can someone tell me just how Splatbooks came to be called by this ridiculous name?

 

 

Splatbooks are sourcebooks devoted to a particular facet, character class, or fictional faction in a role-playing game, providing additional background details and rules options. ... Since the asterisk is also known as a "splat", this gave rise to the term "splatbook".  So says the web!

1 hour ago, Greywind said:

 

Only in Alternate Hero/Villain ID. Thor knows nothing about medicine and surgery, but Don Blake does.

That is what I meant by different abilities. Strength, knowledge. Skills.  It's almost like a summoning where they switch places. Some invocation with physical effects.  They are completely different physically and mentally. Other than both being good that is.

Only in alternate ID seems more like Tony Stark vs Iron Man. Or Underdog even. He pops a pill and whammy! Sweet Polly Purebred is saved!

Obviously there is very little agreement on this. But multi form instead of multi personalities might be a clue?????

Beast boy does not change personality but the Hulk sure does. Harlequin (spelled wrong I'm sure) has multiple personalities but the same form. 

Some beings have different identities with different skill sets and memories but have the same form.  Guess I'll have to really read over it as well as some 'official' characters built with multiform.  But I would think Dr Don Blake vs Thor is a multiform. Certainly they sport different hairstyles, bodies, voice, height, parents, abilities, yada yada.