rjcurrie

I did something similar too.  Many times I just didn't have anyone roll at all. 

 

The biggest reason I am working on this is the dynamic that this system brings into a game.  Both from the players and for the GM.  The first version of the system I ever played was Fear Itself.  My initial understanding of the rules and the investigation system had me more than a bit skeptical.   But in actual play it was brilliant and so conducive to engaging all the players in the plot all the time.  My personal problem is that while the investigation side is done so well, everything else combat, driving what have you, is so over simplified that  I am very underwhelmed.

 

Hence my interest in combining their Investigative System with my favorite overall RPG Game System. 

 

It may not work, but I am am interested in seeing if I can make it work. 

So I will pretty much be ignoring all the "don't try to adapt it, instead do this" posts and PM's.  Not out of meanness or anything, but the exercise is to see if I can come up with a usable adaptation, not to see if someone can talk me out of trying.  

 

 

Fair enough. I guess one thing I don't like about the Gumshoe system is the whole "spending points" for clues which just feels horribly artificial and takes me out of the game.

Yes

 

That is why I was ball-parking the ideas.  GUMSHOE is one of the best systems I have ever played for investigation/mysteries.  From horror (it's staple) to straight detective work like Holmes or Spade.    But it does rely on the Investigative skills being defined so that the matrix is available to the GM during scenario build up.   And the directed investigative spends really do draw out all the players in a way that general points like Ubiquity's Style Points, Savage Worlds Bennies and HERO's Heroic Action Points do not. 

 

The issue with the Option 1 build, creating a full Investigation Skill list and then making those not available as a standard skill is that HERO skills are very dispersed and not defined.  The Professional, Knowledge and Science Skills that is. 

 

The hard part would be to determine what investigative skills to use.  I already dabbled in HD and put together a pre-fab for Investigative skills.  It would be simple to grant each player the number of investigative points for the initial build, those points only being spent for the investigative skills.  

 

Mutants City Blues (Special Crimes Bureau in the future) uses the following Investigative Skills:  ...

 

My own approach to investigations in HERO is to not have specific clues in mind, but rather to have specific information that they need to get to the next point of the adventure.

 

When it comes time for the players to investigate, I'll go around the table and ask each player what they're doing to investigate. I then decide what investigation paths will turn up what information. I'll then play out short scenes of the players obtaining their "clues". Sometimes I'll ask for a roll on the skill they might be using but usually a failure is just used to complicate the situation slightly not really reduce the chance of them learning something. Finally, if there is information that the players do not have the skills to obtain or simply do not take any investigation approach that could obtain it, then I'll have some kind of NPC provide them the  info or point them in the right direction.

Don't all these attempted balancing techniques just go out the window once characters come into play?  To be honest, I've usually found that the player's creativity, tactics, and roleplaying ability have far more impact than the character's stats. In the main Champions that I used to play in that lasted for many years, there was almost nothing resembling a rule of X.  I believe there was a total point limit and that was that. We had a character that had no stat higher than 20 and no attack bigger than about 8d6 being tremendously effective while a character with an 120 Cosmic Power Pool was dead within about 3 sessions. We had a STR 100, DEX 33 brick that was much more effective in combat than a lot of us, but combat was only one aspect of the game. We also split up frequently to deal with different plots or subplots and probably did many other thngs that "conventional HERO wisdom" tells you not to do.

Shane Harsch, actual writer of the book. He's mudpyr8 around here, IIRC. dw

 

He seems to now be posting under the name Legendsmiths.

Not presently, but I have in the past... In addition it is really immaterial, because if they are doing it as a hobby and a second job, they should factor that into their schedule. I understand missed deadlines and all, but we are talking about a year or more, so that explanation, though understandable should have been factored into the equation. This is exactly what I mean about professionalism... if you are not a professional writer/publisher/graphic artist... fine, tell everyone so there are no expectations. I probably would NOT back a project by someone that was in that position due to the likelihood that I would never get it. It is sad, but my funds and time are limited just like theirs. BTW, I manage a career, family life and am finishing my degree in Chemistry as we speak, so I understand all these pressures, but I am still expected to do all these things to a schedule without excuse.

 

I assume that these things are a given when dealing with the RPG "Industry".

Yeah, as another backer of what seemed like a good project to support hero, I am disappointed with the whole handling of this. I expected a level of professionalism with regard to such public projects associated with Kickstarter. And overall I have not been too disappointed, but it is obvious from this and others that there is NO guarantee that people presenting as professionals actually are and obviously their optimism about their projects certainly lends them to a very optimistic appraisals of their timelines. I work in print professionally, so I really do know what it takes to make a book happen, and if this was going to happen, it already would have. I don't doubt the good faith of the people working on this, but though faith can move mountains, it won't beat reality no matter the intent.

You say you work in print professionally, but do you work with essentially first time authors who are working their writing in around a busy career and family life?

For personal reasons that should become clear, I'd have to consider that last a good question...

 

But to answer Lord Liaden's question - The Sands of Time is set in the Champions Universe. Very much so, in an odd way; there's stuff in there that was originally borrowed from the 1992 Champions Universe book (by Monte Cook). Though it's been brought up to date for publication.

Okay. That answers my supplemental question, which was "Who wrote The Sands of Time?" But it does seem strange not to list the author in the description of these products. I know personally that I have made purchase decisions on RPG products solely based on the author.

Is there a reason that descriptions (viewed here, in the Hero Store, and on the Blackwyrm web sit) do not include author information?

For those that don't know, the Fifth Doctor Sourcebook has been written by former Hero Games president Darren Watts.

When I add weapons to a character in Hero Designer, I just tend to use Custom Power and enter the stats for the gun. I see no need to reinvent the wheel by building it from scratch.

You're right if you're going to be modifying a piece of equipment. But I was more thinking of the case where the character uses standard weaponry and you just want to have quick access to the stats. For example, if my character uses a Glock 34 semi-automatic pistol, do I really need the full Hero build on my character sheet or just the stats? Now if I was creating a modified version of the gun then yeah, I'd probably include the fully written up version -- although I still might just want the updated stats on my character sheet. So, I might hide the actual write-up with a custom export template -- although it would still be available in the HD file to be modified.

A Focus is a disadvantage, which has two parts.

 

One, it can be taken away from the character.

 

Two, there are times, especially in a secret identity, it won't be available.

 

If a player doesn't want to risk losing it they can purchase the power as an Only In Hero Identity. This would be appropriate for Iron Man, for example, to represent the various security systems built into the armor.

Depending on the focus, the character without a secret iD can still be caught without it. For example, even though Cap does not really have a secret ID, does he really take the shield with him when he runs out to the local convenience to grab a quart of a milk because he's run out?

When I add weapons to a character in Hero Designer, I just tend to use Custom Power and enter the stats for the gun. I see no need to reinvent the wheel by building it from scratch.

"We are making a fortune off this prison," The chairman at the table said with a smile, "Yes, gents. The private prison industry is a goldmine."

 

"What about the cost of our political contributions?" One woman was not entirely convinced. An easy life combined with the best plastic surgeon money could buy had kept her looking twenty years younger but the calculating expression on her face showed how her soul was withering, "Is it hurting the overhead?"

 

The chairman shook his head, his grin growing wider, "Funding a politician to be 'tough on crime' is like paying a duck to swim. We pay thousands to push for longer prison sentences, three strike policies, and containment over rehabilitation, and when the public prisons are overwhelmed, we step in and get millions in government funding back for providing the need we helped create. The returns are only growing."

 

"Good," The woman smiled. Others added their own voices of agreement.

 

One mustached fellow joined in, but then when that died down, he added, "What about that retired warden? the one who was making political noise about us being a violation of the very system of ''true justice and redemption'' he wanted to serve?" The fellow made quote marks in the air over the virtues.

 

"Handled," The Chairman said, "Turns out about twenty five years ago, he had an affair. It was a standard one, he and his wife have settled it, but not only has the story leaked, its mutated... rumors that he MIGHT have pressured visiting female family members of past prisoners for sexual favors in exchange for 'better treatment' of their loved ones. He's outraged of course, but enough have doubts that his supposed moral authority is shot."

 

"Well, it COULD be true," The woman smirked. "I do wonder how these rumors get started on the internet."

 

"Don't we all," The mustached man smirked back as well, "It's very convenient."

 

Then, suddenly, the lights dimmed, it made the room look very shadowy. The fine garments the chairholders wore lost their luster, bright colors faded to drab.

 

"Some sort of brown out?" The woman asked, feeling oddly nervous.

 

"We have a back up generator," The chairman said in confusion, "It should handle a grid failure."

 

Then HE was among them. Nameless, with stern eyes on a pale weathered face, he seemed to drag the shadows in deeper with him, or perhaps he just made the shadows that had always been there more apparent. His costume, if it should be called that, was black. It seemed to draw the eye, drink in whatever light touched it, and it was hard to pull away.

 

"Oh god, he's real," The mustached exec gaped

 

"It's some gag,," The Chairperson insisted, "The Man in Black is an Urban Legend and..."

 

The man in black looked at the chairperson, "John Tarleton," he called the man by name. Their eyes met, and Tarleton found himself falling into those dark eyes, plummeting into the blackness.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Tarleton felt strange when he awoke, he looked up and saw the bars around him. He felt the wait of years of desperation, and the glimmer of hope that today he was due out for a hearing .Maybe he'd get his shot. But these weren't his memories, they weren't HIS feelings.

 

It didn't change the fact they were real and he was experiencing them, he scrambled as a guard came to the door, "Hey, my hearing's soon man, right? Today?" His lips moved, well, not HIS lips, but the words came out like he was part of some obscene script.

 

"Didn't you hear?" The Guard said with a sad shrug that stabbingly indifferent, "Law got changed yesterday. Parole hearing frequencies are being spread out. I think they rescheduled you to make your plea in another six months!"

 

"Six MONTHS? But I've been here years longer than they said I would. The cops told me I'd get parole soon for good behavior, so did the Public Defender!"

 

"Next time, get a better lawyer, and don't believe everything the police tell you," The guard now looked amused.

 

"I couldn't afford better!" Tarleton felt the anguish. The words weren't of his choosing, but the despair was still his It cut like a knife.

 

...............

 

The female chair-holder gasped as their Chairman had gone fetal, "What did you do to him? This is illegal, this is immoral ...."

 

In a deep voice that seemed to command all others to be silent, the Man in Black stated, "I only return to you what you give."

 

Then he said her name, "Hilary Van Reese" and she fell.

 

............

"I'm hungry, mama," The child had learned to talk, and all he said was how hungry he was. Course, he was. Lean times made hungry kids. The lawsuits against her husband hadn't just been criminal, legal fee after legal fee combined to devastate them. There were programs to help, but so many hoops to go through, so many accusing eyes. Hilary Van Reese felt for the boy, in way she hadn't cared for anyone for years.

 

This isn't MY son ,she wanted to scream, but instead she bent down and kissed him on the brow, "Soon, baby. Soon. I'm going to check to see what I can afford at the market."

 

She walked out onto the street, feeling lost. Inside her, Hilary wanted to sneer. Why didn't this dumb broad just make the proper investments? Why anyone with a decent education would be able to...

and then Mrs. Van Reese realized. Her education was gone. Years of the best schools money could buy were murky and nebulous. She once had been able to juggle financial reports with ease, but now? She wasn't sure she could manage algebra.

 

A hand seized her arm, "Heard the man of the house got his parole delayed." The fellow who'd taken her arm wore a tiger striped jacket, and yellow hat with plume. Why hide what he was? There wasn't a person in THIS neighborhood that would do anything about it. His eyes raked over her, "Remember how you turned me down three years ago? Offer still stands, and you ain't getting any younger."

 

"I'm a married woman," Hilary felt her body blurt out, and felt a sting of horror settle in, nestling deep.

 

"Yeah, and he'd be real pissed to find his little boy living like a #$# hobo," The pimp shook his head, "Just try it for a night baby. Just once." He flashed an amount of money that seemed a pittance to Hilary, or would have, but now it seemed like a life line, a chance to provide and keep her head up just a bit longer.

 

And the woman folded, and Hilary collapsed with her. She'd try it, just once.

And that night, when the john told her to try the nose candy, she'd do it just once.

 

And then the next day after that, she'd do it 'once more' and again ,and again, until 'just once' was for as long as her crack addicted body was serviceable..

 

............

 

 

All around the Man in Black, the chairholders were twitching , sharing nightmares that had been all too real for others. Hours from now, they would return from their travels though those moments might feel like years. Whether they learned from this or not, he could never be sure. But some would, and that would be a start.

 

They'd thought he was an urban myth, now they knew better. Any local website search would have had this to warn them about him:

 

 

Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose In our streak of lightnin' cars and fancy clothes But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back Up front there ought to be a Man In Black

The main railroad line through Paradise City is pretty much the dividing point between the good and bad parts of town and is often simply called "The Line". There have been many reported sightings of the Man in Black striding along those tracks.

Re: Champions Complete Available On Preorder

 

Love the Print + PDF at same price option!

 

And as I pointed out in the Company Questions thread on the subject, when you pre-order the bundle, you can get the PDF right away.

Re: Public vs. Secret Identity

 

I read it more as 'I'm going to do plotlines that the Secret ID Disad covers' date=' so you might as well get points for it'.[/quote']

 

I suppose it depends on the GM-PC relationship and what Complications represent in a given. For example, to me, not taking the Secret ID Complication but having a "secret identity" means that you want no one to know the character's real ID but you don't want stories about it.

Re: 6e Hero Designer

 

You can use the current Hero Designer to build both 5e and 6e characters.

Re: Bells and Whistles and Experience Points

 

I'm not sure I'd allow people to spend XP mid-session. I'd rather see people solve problems in character rather than get around them with spending points.

Re: [Retro] COTN 5th edition proposal

 

Still, I whiled away a couple of hours thinking about how to get around the canonical shortage of superbeings in the Champions Universe.

 

Canada almost suffered from the same problem. When I read the original draft of Champions Universe (back in the days when drafts were made available for review), one of my major comments to Steve Long was that Canada's superhuman population would be way too low to support a new Champions of the North. The percentage given in the final product was much higher.

Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance

 

In any event, however you think physical looks affect others, explain how Striking Appearance doesn't accomplish what you're trying to do.

Re: Question: Can you give Limitations on a Perk?

 

I can`t remember any specific examples off the top of my head. But I`m pretty sure that even Teri Hatcher`s Lois Lane was smart enough to come up with other ways of getting in touch with him, especially once she learned his secret ID.

 

Either you were trying to make a joke and didn`t make it clear or your attempts to cram every hero known to man into 250 points has ruined your ability to think rationally about the Hero System.

Re: Question: Can you give Limitations on a Perk?

 

That would be useful for Jimmy Olsen's signal watch.

 

Why Jimmy need to speak to use his signal watch? It just sends an ultrasonic signal that Superman can hear. And even if the watch transmitted sound, would Jimmy need to be able to use it? Could he not hand a note to someone else to speak into it? Or could he tap out Morse Code -- which isn't out of line for both Jimmy and Supes to know?

Re: Question: Can you give Limitations on a Perk?

 

I have a Contact: Superman for Lois Lane' date=' and am wondering if it should have an Incantations?[/quote']

 

I'm trying to figure out how that make the Contract any more limited than any other.

 

For example, let's say that Lois has Contact: U.S. Army based on the fact that her dad is a general. If she is bound and gagged and shoved in a hole in the desert, can contact the Army? How is the Contact with Superman any different?

 

Also, if Lex Luthor renders her mute, can she not get in touch with Superman via e-mail or a text message or writing a message on the ground in big letters for him to see when he happens to be flying overhead?

Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance

 

Whatever. COM was replaced by something that had an effect similar to many of the optional COM systems that people used. No big deal in my opinion. As a 6E change, it's about the same as changing Seduction to Charm.

 

In fact, I suspect that if Hero had used Striking Appearance since 1E and 6E decided to replace it with a COM characteristic, there would have been a pile of people arguing against the change, many of whom would be the same ones who are arguing that COM should have been kept.

Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance

 

Well, the basic +1 per 5 points of COM is pretty much what Striking Appearance does.

 

Striking Appearance can be used to represent hideous appearances as well.

 

And I don't see how the ball entrance plays out any differently with Striking Appearance instead of COM.

Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance

 

Well lets not forgtet that COM orginally wasn't purely about physical apperence but overall personality. Which through that lens makes it easier to use as a complimentry skill.

 

From the first edition of Champions in 1981:

 

This characteristic represents how beautiful or handsome a character is. 1pt. of COM costs 1/2 Power Point.

 

That's it. That's the entire original definition of COM.