RDU Neil

Ok... can't stop laughing at the absurdity of this B action movie starring Jason Momoa... Braven. It looked like a semi-quality action flick... decent actors, good cinematography... cliched story, but that can be overcome with decent dialogue and sharp action scenes. It starts off decently, but when the action starts, it quickly heads into the ludicrous. Fight scene... surprises guy with gun, Momoa beating on him, guy drops gun... then guy gets gun back and shoots at him, misses... then decides not to continue shooting at him, but to start hitting him with it, even though it is fully loaded automatic weapon. Drops gun... Momoa doesn't bother picking it up, but hits him with his bag, then gets into a complex series of... pull the winch line off the ATV, wrap the guy up with it after tackling him, then jump back to the ATV and gun it, dragging the guy, jump off at last second as you head over a cliff, but guy somehow grabs ankle and both go over. Every set piece fight goes like this... instead of simple logical action with guns (readily available) he has to attack people with axes and hot tongs and the final fight scene is the most stupid set piece ever, featuing a bear trap used in the dumbest way possible. Best part though... at one point, Momoa's wife shows up (as of course, the daughter is caught in this and running for her life). Even though the wife didn't really know what was going on, she shows up pulling a hunting bow out of her truck and running right up into the fight. Just as bad man is about to grab daughter, she shoots a Hawkeye level bow shot through thick trees, to the guys hand... but learning from her husband. Doesn't just shoot the guy ... instead, runs up and starts beating on him with the bow. He take some shots, but overpowers her, knocks her down... after obligatory "run forest run!" to the daughter, the mom proceeds to pull one of these... ... and shiv the guy over and over. So while Momoa is scrabbling around using pointless impromptu weapons, the mom shows up outfitted like a FarCry character, without the slightest explanation of what or how. Entertaining for being humorously dumb... but I wouldn't recommend "Braven" at all.

Actually I was thinking of this (I don't think it will be a problem in this game) but I kinda like the idea that any damage added to equipment can only go as far as max damage on the weapon (assuming ranged attack, HKA's are already limited to no more than double) Essentially guaranteeing max damage isn't overpowered, but makes the damage significant 7 damage on every shot by a 9mm would be really good, but we don't have that pistol punching through body armor when it shouldn't (again, in a game of cinematic realism.) I think I'll try that.

I don't worry about my players purposefully power gaming to break the game. They are mature enough, but they would say, "Hey, if you allow this, you realize X, Y, and Z are really easy to abuse..." and we'd have a discussion about the right ways for it to work in the campaign. I was, in fact, having this conversation with my players, which was why I wanted to verify my interpretation of the RAW, so we were working from the correct base for our campaign guidelines. we already have restrictions to MA (no extra DCs allowed, in fact we reduce all MA added damage by 1DC to a min of +1DC, to keep punches and kicks more 'normal' and less super). I'm thinking if I allow a character to have 1 version, bought only at the lowest 12 pt level... either Deadly Blow or Weaponmaster (Weaponmaster definitely feels more broken), and only one instance of it. It will probably end up being something each PC has, to reflect their "best attack" which doesn't bother me, as it is a combat oriented game. Basically it will become like Combat Luck for these games... every PC and named combat NPC will have it. Kinda like every character class has some kind of extra damage feat in D&D. Not my favorite concept, but it may work for this current campaign.

cool... thanks... that was what I assumed from the reading, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. My current game is one where limited use of Weaponmaster or Deadly Blow would be in sync with the genre/action/character expectations, but misuse of it would break the game easily. Before I started figuring out campaign limits, I wanted to make sure I understood RAW correctly.

I think this is a quick, easy, question... but often there are nuances in Hero that come up, especially in the world of 5th/6th and the naked advantages as well as this allowable build that stacks damage abilities on top of equipment damage. (Extra DCs on top of a gun you didn't pay points for... which has always struck me as breaking a fundamental concept of Hero... powers and equipment don't mix... but anyway...) If a character has Deadly Blow "Headshots only" and Weaponmaster "Pistols" and ranged Martial Arts with added damage classes with his Pistol... it is correct that there is nothing in RAW to stop all this damage from stacking? So a 9mm pistol does 1d6+1K... plus 1d6K if a headshot, +1d6K for being a pistol, plus 2 more damage classes from Far Shot or whatever... pistol does 4d6K? (Not involving hit location multipliers at this point.) Correct? As per RAW, there is no reason these all can't stack together? (I'm not saying there aren't issues of balance here, just checking RAW.) There is also nothing in RAW saying that this only applies to human/soft targets... because now that 9mm isn't just a perfect shot to the eye... even if you take away Deadly Blow, and now only 3d6K, that 9mm is doing hellacious damage to non-headshots as well. Just checking to see if I'm reading this right.

Wait... is this a real thing, or are you describing some drag addled fantasies... 'cause this sounds amazing, and I've never heard about it! What is this show?

More like Captain Bleh! the way this conversation is going.

Here is some great analysis on DC set pieces, vs. Marvel set pieces

I'd actually read something about these methane tests, but not the seasonal results. Very cool.

Build a wall! I don't want to hear no mealy-mouthed whining from you BJWs!* Always letting those Danish Reds "wander" over here and steal grass from hard chewin' Holsteins. *Bovine Justice Warriors

I'd read the same article (or similar one) and been confused myself on what exactly the issue was. Are we still just talking measurement error, methodology error, or are we seeing evidence of some unexplained phenomena? It seems to me that the assumptions of some kind of uniform expansion, or constant expansion, or constant acceleration of expansion are just that, an assumptions. Why couldn't the universe expand, non-uniformly... in pulses (that last millions or billions of years) rather than a steady stream? Wave propagation on a cosmic level, like a ripple through a pond, bending space time in some parts of the universe differently than other, over the course of eons? Not being a physics guy, I'm not clear on the base assumptions being made that allow the measurement processes you listed above. Any good source on those?

How I hadn't heard about this, I don't know... but this kind of confirmation is amazing. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jun/07/nasa-mars-rover-finds-organic-matter-in-ancient-lake-bed?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Lab+notes+2016&utm_term=277562&subid=24646434&CMP=ema-3242

Exactly.

tl;dr version : I applied most of the rules we've talked about here, and they really worked, in an extensive gun fight scenario in last night's game. For what it is worth, I ran a five and half hour (in game play) ranging gun fight in my game last night (PCs invading the corporate HQ of an elite Private Security/mercenary force), so we had the chance to really put the criteria I listed above, as well as in the thread about guns, damage, rate of fire, etc. It was an amazingly cinematic gunfight that ranged from the basement to the seventh floor of a high rise, with more bullets, magazines and grenades spent than in most of the previous games put together. I found the combination of criteria worked pretty well. Here are guidelines I wrote up for my campaign, and then we played the game to test them. Hit Locations: As per RAW, the Hit Location chart will be utilized in combat. Exception Note: Called shots to a specific location will still roll if there is more than one number result. Ex.: If a called shot to the head hits after modifiers, then a die roll will determine if 3 (face), 4 (head), 5 (throat) was the actual location. Range Modifiers: SW will utilize the Range Modifiers from 3rd Edition Danger International. -0 for Point Black to 6 meters -1 for 6+ to 12 meters -2 for 12+ to 18 meters, etc. Multiple Attacks: There are several changes to this maneuver from the RAW. Multiple Attacks suffer a -1 OCV penalty for each attack after the first. Range is halved, so penalties accrue faster (e.g. -0 up to 3 meters, -1 up to 6 meters, etc.) Not every attack can utilize multiple attacks. Weapon type affects whether Multiple Attack can be used, and how many attacks can be attempted in a single action. Barehanded/hand-to-hand weapons requires Rapid Attack, limited to 2 attacks, only weapons size "small" are allowed Bows, crossbows, thrown weapons cannot utilize Multiple Attacks w/o GM permission Early firearms cannot utilize Multiple Attacks Revolvers can only go up to 3 shot MAs Semi-automatic pistols can go up to 5 shot MAs Pump action shotguns cannot utilize MAs, semi-automatic shotguns may do up to 2 shot MAs Select Fire automatic weapons can fire up to 2 bursts (3 or 5 rounds), but at -2 for both bursts. As for the armor discussion, I basically went with... Did not go with extra activation for plates... just didn't need another roll. Did not involve increased stun multipliers for any weapons except the Benneli M4 one PC used. Just using Hit Location stun multipliers as is worked just fine. With Light AP on rifle rounds automatically, I feel it very much makes long guns way better than pistol rounds, but doesn't escalate the damage into "one shotting" people with a 5.56 all the time. It was really important in the game last night, as the final aspects of the fight had both sides pretty heavily armored up and blazing away with SIG MCX variants using .300 AAC (2d6 +1 damage, light AP as noted above). I adopted the rule of Hard armor, if no body gets through, no stun applied at all. This worked REALLY well, as it felt right when it happened, and sped up the game. The Hard armor rule for no stun and vs. light AP really brought home how much more effective the armor is with the plates than hitting in just a soft armor spot, again without ramping up certain armor to really high levels. The explosive damage applied as above is REALLY deadly, as two fully armored bad guys were caught point blank in a stairwell with a fragmentation grenade... (roll three 2.5d6K attacks vs. three different hit locations, and each only affected by 1/2 of any armor in those locations). It felt really correct, with the idea that damage drops off quickly with distance and any barriers. (third guy was slightly farther back and blocked by two buddies when grenade went off, so dropped the damage to 2d6 and only two locations... he was effed up but alive, until they shot him on their way up the stairs.) Blowthrough came into play as a PC was in a close quarters shootout between two glass and paneling offices with a support column in between, and both guys ended up blazing away right through the thin walls at each other, which only stop a couple of rounds out of twenty or so that went back and forth in that burst series, after they'd been shooting at each other for a while. Felt very right. Had great moments of multiple different effects from rounds hitting armor, where the bullets were simply stopped, others where they did partial penetration or just brusing damage, other time where soft armor was penetrated for really nasty wounds, though not lethal because they stopped some of it, hard armor totally sucking up some rounds, etc. One great scene had a PC get the drop on one guy with a three round burst. Two shots hit, head and chest, helmet and plate... but he rolled really well, doing just 1 Body over the defenses on each hit, so Stun did translate through, and this did lay the guy out, Con stunned and unconscious (briefly), and it felt right... not a common occurrence, but right in this instance with two high rolls dead center to noggin and chest. What I do realize is that full body armor is very effective, especially against lighter rounds. The few pistols shots that weren't targeting heads/bare faces, got sucked up like nothing if it hit the armor. No SMGs were used, but I feel the lethality would have been much less if the Light AP was not in play. (I rule SMGs don't achieve the velocity of assault rifles/long guns, so don't achieve Light AP), so there would have been less armor penetration in those cases. Anyway... really feel like these rules work well for a semi-realistic, cinematic, heroic level gun fights. If that is your thing.... try 'em out.

I see you are a Michigander as well. It is a rough state to live in this past decade. Unfortunately it feels that Snyder will continue to survive the horrible machinations of his administration. It feels like he's skated on everything, including Flint, and we are doomed to a dismantling of the state government in any kind of way that truly serves the constituents, and not just business issues.

Thanks! Most enjoyable little story. I know little of the French Punk scene, though a long time fan of the American CBGB late '70s and the Burning Britain years that followed in the UK. Fun!

Yes to all of these comments about the Defenders. The PTB involved failed to recognize what made the Netflix shows so good... excellent writing, great acting, real characters with unique voices, great dialogue, powerful thematic cores... the things that make great drama/stories... all used to bring comic characters to life. With Iron Fist and the Defenders, they dropped a lot of that, creating a comic show property with proscribed elements stuck together to produce the next comic show property. Just, generally, not a good idea. As for Scott Buck... maybe he was saddled with "Get this product rolled out!" with both Iron Fist and (ugh) Inhumans... but what he made was garbage in both cases and there is some responsibility on him. If he is just their "product manager guy" then ok, he does a job... but I won't be watching his shows (I mean products) in the future.

Also... some really excellent analysis... https://theconversation.com/4-charts-showing-why-putting-tariffs-on-your-friends-is-a-bad-idea-97582?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest from The Conversation for June 6 2018 - 103489118&utm_content=Latest from The Conversation for June 6 2018 - 103489118+Version+A+CID_f849697fb722bfef259fe7ac6b882460&utm_source=campaign_monitor_us&utm_term=uses four charts

I really hope Malcolm Jenkins doesn't turn out to be some domestic abuser or something awful, 'cause right now he is my hero. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jun/06/malcolm-jenkins-signs-silence-nfl-protest-movement?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+USA+-+Collections+2017&utm_term=277429&subid=24646434&CMP=GT_US_collection

I agree... I think the original Bronze Age Mantis is the closest Marvel has, and it muddies the mixture with Kree heritage and alien influenced martial arts, etc.

I've read a lot of comics, and I've never seen Elektra do these things. Clearly not her recent mini-series, or the late 90's version, nor the Miller Daredevil's. Was this the wacko Miller/Sienkiewicz stuff? I'm not saying it isn't out there, but I don't remember Elektra doing that stuff at all. She has the typical unrealistic acrobatic and leaping and swinging abilities of all those types, yeah. Now... mental powers as something that training can unleash... no problem. That is a common trope. But when you are suddenly flying and bouncing bullets and doing Superman level stuff because of martial arts... that gets a bit more frowny.

And all that is good, but you better lay that out in the movie as a particular plot point, and a particular characteristic of the super martial artist. "It isn't just skill. It isn't just discipline and training... only the worthy can become true masters. You can be the greatest fighter in the world, but true master is... something else," or whatever. Actually... this got me thinking, in that, I don't think there is a true "mystical martial artist" in the Marvel Universe. Iron Fist learned martial arts, but it was the heart of Kung Lung that gave him the extra power of Iron Fist. White Tiger is a great fighter, but the added strength and abilities comes from the Jade Talismans. Shang-Chi had no magic or added power, but he was never meant to be super human (as I mentioned above.) Daredevil is an acrobatic brawler, but he has subtle superpowers in his enhanced senses giving him perfect balance, find weakness, etc. Is there any martial artist in Marvel comics that purely "learned" super powers like "chi blast" or "iron skin" or "dim mak" or anything? I'm not even going to the Dragonball Z level of Super Sayans who become cosmic super powers after a few rounds in the dojo. Edit (The DCU, mostly building out of the Denny O'Neil work and later Chuck Dixon, has done a lot more with the great martial arts training mode... Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, the Question, Batman, Robin, Black Canary, Connor Hawke, etc. What is interesting is all of them were considered the "greatest martial artists" but never displayed the mystic ability side of things. I remember some throwaway character from superman, who was essentially a mystic ninja with a glowy sword, and his abilities were from mystic martial arts, and I always felt that that character concept threw a wrench in their "best martial artist" concept. I just can't think of where Marvel ever did that.)

I was about to say that. heh. Seriously, it is less about whether you buy into Quill losing it like that for me... it is about sloppy/lazy writing. When the big plot of 10 years worth of movies hinges on the lamest hack maneuver of "have the hero do something stupid" in order to move the villain along... that is just lame. I've written this before, but it galls me from a creative POV, and especially when the Russo brothers have been so smart in the past with character motivations and plot connections... and this was just bad. It also makes the villain seem 'less' as well removing all pathos for the viewer. "Really? That trope? What garbage!" and the rest of the movie is undermined.

yes... exactly... but I'm wondering how/could they film that in such a way that really made Shang-Chi look unique... and again, they'd need to address the "Hey Natasha... Shang-Chi can punch through car doors... why can't you? You are both super-martial artists!" Now, that can be addressed, but it would take some thought and nuance to the story telling. But yeah... Daniel Wu as Shang-Chi... good stuff if done right. Harkening back to the original series, one of the things I liked was that it stood alone. it was a "super agents" series (cinematic action adventure, not super powers)... not a "super hero" series, and was self-contained. Only later, did Marvel have Shang-Chi guest star in other comics. I never felt that he fit in the larger MU, myself.

Oh yeah. I wasn't even thinking about Shang-Chi on screen... more of whether he is worth resurrecting in the Marvel comics. (They have, from time to time. He was in Secret Avengers, and recently guest starred in a couple issues of Iron Fist, etc.) Martial Arts translated into visual/screen work... there are so many challenges. 1) Back in the day, simply "knowing martial arts" was practically a super power, and it was brought to the masses who knew nothing. These days, every kid has taken a karate class, the MMA has brought a realistic perspective on what can and can't be done with martial arts, and some form of martial arts are simply de rigeur for an action star, so it needs to be "more" to stand out. 2) once you start "standing out" with martial arts, you run into the "wuxia or not to wuxia" kind of thing, where martial arts take on a whole 'nother level of mythic super powers. This worked in the Matrix, as martial arts that broke the rules of physics was the "source" of super powers in that world... but... 3) In a world where there are multiple kinds of super powers and super powered martial arts, from Black Widow's non-powered, to Cap/Bucky's enhanced combato, to Black Panther's enhanced acrobatic style, all of which are stylized, but not classic in any sense... it becomes not just a matter of style, but continuity issues. Two examples: 1, the bring in Shang Chi, who uses classic kung-fu to be a super-hero... but it has already been established that martial arts arent' enough. You need tech gadgets or superhuman strength to really be bad ass... so where does that leave Shang-Chi? Or example 2... say they really brought a mystic martial artist, whose study of ancient arts gives him superhuman powers... then why doesn't Black Widow study those martial arts and get powers, too? Or Cap get martial arts powers on top of his serum enhancements? Once you've shown that super powers can be "learned" then it should be replicated and lots of people should have them. Finally, the big issue, as they showed with Iron Fist on Netflix, is that they have no idea how to "film" kung-fu in any good way. He is a character who should fight his way through an army of thugs, and was regularly getting beat down... brought down to a very normal level, let alone badly choreographed with an actor who wasn't a real martial artist. They would need someone like Daniel Wu (Into the Badlands) but that staged/semi-campy style of kung-fu action adventure works as an isolated genre... I don't know how it would translate into a world of multiple types of super powers and more "realistic" fighting styles. I'd love to see someone really capable try... but it would take an excellent choreographer with an excellent action director and a very capable martial artist actor where they don't rely on CGI. The MCU has clearly delineated between "normal people fighting" and what "super powered fighting" looks like. Where would a Shang-Chi (or well done Iron Fist) actually fit in all that?