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How to build: Disintegrating energy wall


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Building a sorcerer who can project a wall of disintegrating magic. It's primarily meant to: 1) stop incoming magic attacks, 2) destroy incoming projectiles (bullets, arrows, etc.). It has no physical substance so anyone who is willing to take a 1d6+1 RKA can pass through it, and tougher projectiles (ballista bolt comes to mind) have a shot at making it through.

 

I don't think Barrier with a Damage Shield would work, so I'm looking at RKA with AoE, and maybe taking Any Area to represent that it is a vertical wall of energy that also travels in a configurable line shape.

 

Anyone build something like this before?

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I would be inclined to go with forcefield with a triggered RKA. Barrier, to me, either stops you passing through or breaks when you do.

 

The force field gives the protection. I would be inclined to make it all or nothing, it either stops the attack or it does not. I might change that to affects any attack where the killing attack would destroy the missile. The RKA is triggered by anyone passing through the SFX of the force field (a glowing ring of disintegrating force).

 

 

Doc

 

Edit: if points are no issue, I might spring for 100% Damage a Reduction instead of force field - with the same limitation that the missile must be able to be destroyed by the RKA for it to work.

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I don't think Barrier with a Damage Shield would work, so I'm looking at RKA with AoE, and maybe taking Any Area to represent that it is a vertical wall of energy that also travels in a configurable line shape.

Problem is, that won't

 

1) stop incoming magic attacks,

Nor would it

 

2) destroy incoming projectiles (bullets, arrows, etc.).

So some kind of Defense probably needs to be part of the build.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Some kind of palindromedary needs to be part of the tagline

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My understanding of Barrier was that if you attacked it, you could destroy it, when physical attacks shouldn't be able to do that (magic would a fine way of dealing with the barrier though).

Strong disagreement that a bullet/bolt passing through an AoE wouldn't destroy the projectile. They are Foci, and Foci can get broken by RKAs.

 

However, I hadn't considered whether a Limitation of "Only Affecting Certain Kinds of Things" could also make the reverse true - "Only Certain Kinds of Things Can Affect It." It's oddly like Desolid.

 

Doc Democracy - Force Field is a power that doesn't exist in 6E; were you referring to 5E or something else?

 

Will review and mull over suggestions, thanks all!

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Doc Democracy - Force Field is a power that doesn't exist in 6E; were you referring to 5E or something?

D'oh! My failing brain. Use resistant protection, costs END. Or like I said, use 100% Damage Resistance with the limitation that it only works against attacks that can be judged to use projectiles small enough to be destroyed. You might even use missile deflection with an obscene number of levels. :-)

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D'oh! My failing brain. Use resistant protection, costs END. Or like I said, use 100% Damage Resistance with the limitation that it only works against attacks that can be judged to use projectiles small enough to be destroyed. You might even use missile deflection with an obscene number of levels. :-)

 

I thought of Missile Deflection myself, but it would only work using earlier edition versions of that power, or setting it up as an automaton that does its own blocking. I'm usually Captain Special Effect but in this case I think you're going to need defense for the small stuff as well as the main area effect zone.

 

Hmm... wasn't there something like this in earlier editions? I'm sure there was an option for Force Wall with no Body that just provided defense against attacks that passed through it, but didn't break. Which sounds exactly what you need. I'll check the BBB and maybe 3e when I get home.

 

The idea about PD (rPD is needed for arrows and such, though) looks better than a destructible wall to me. A Wall of Disintegration or a Wall of Fire aren't really the kinds of barriers that you punch a permanent 2m hole in. Easy to define if only the caster is protected (Limit: Only protects vs attacks passing through the Disintegration Wall), but trickier if the wall provides the same protection to others. I won't go into the UOO and such that would be needed. You're all grown ups and can work out the modifiers. Plus this is Magic, so maybe the sorcerer *doesn't* want anyone else protected.

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Personally, I would buy it just as RKA AoE continuous and let the special effect work as deflection against range physical, but some people would abuse that.  So why not buy it as a compound power and add in a drain/surpress physical attacks.  this way, a bullet being small enough might be disintegrated before getting all the way through, but a boulder might come out as a large rock.

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Personally, I would buy it just as RKA AoE continuous and let the special effect work as deflection against range physical, but some people would abuse that.  So why not buy it as a compound power and add in a drain/surpress physical attacks.  this way, a bullet being small enough might be disintegrated before getting all the way through, but a boulder might come out as a large rock.

 

Drain or even Supress doesn't work so well since the Disintegration Wall should have NO effect on someone shooting at a target not protected by it. You'd also need to build it up with awkward triggers, and it's not obvious if the Drain would kick in before the initial attack was applied anyway. 

 

Deflection runs into needing phases to Block with... plus deflection is all-or-nothing and less effective if the shooter is high OCV, which doesn't feel right for this effect. A super-sniper isn't going to have any better luck shooting through the wall than a basic soldier using the same weapon.

 

Using actual rPD seems to fit the desired effect. Damage Negation would work as an alternate, especially if you're going for a guaranteed bulletproof effect. Since there would be no weak spots to exploit, having it remove dice *before* rolling for damage feels right. Damage Reduction doesn't feel so right to me, since any missile will get through for some effect using that. And applying DR *before* the target's own defences REALLY feels wrong!

 

Sooo... maybe:

 

RKA AoE Constant PLUS

Damage Negation vs Physical and Magic (10 points per -1DC) AoE Useable On Others (+1 anyone who has the Wall between them and an attacker, +1/4 be in limited range).

 

Or something like that. Forgive me if I've overlooked some 6e build issue!

 

And the UOO would need to be tweaked to give the effects the caster wants (i.e. if they control who is protected or if it's out of their control).

 

(On a side note - the thread title originally made me think Ablative might be involved. But the Wall disintegrates other stuff; it's not of itself a wall that's disintegrating :) )

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You know... what if I treated magic as being somewhat like a Foci?

 

I can build a pistol and a wand to have the exact same mechanics (Charges, Focus, 1d6+1 RKA, etc.) but a different SFX. There's no inherent reason that a magic bolt fired from the wand is different from a bullet in terms of Deflection, blowthrough, etc.

 

Now, for magic attacks built without the Focus limitation... How about all magic has the -0 Limitation "Is blocked by magic SFX" or somesuch ("Is treated like a Focus when interacting with other Magic SFX" perhaps)

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Drain or even Supress doesn't work so well since the Disintegration Wall should have NO effect on someone shooting at a target not protected by it. You'd also need to build it up with awkward triggers, and it's not obvious if the Drain would kick in before the initial attack was applied anyway. 

 

If the drain was AoE Constant Like the RKA, both can occupy the same area.  When the attack, attempts to go through the "wall" it would be drained suppressed. 

 

The problem I have with using barrier is if someone tries to jump through the "wall", they can be stopped by the barrier and bounce off.  A disintegration wall, in my opinion, would allow a projectile through if it couldn't disintegrate all of it (but with lots of damage of course).  So a projectile which is a superhero could get through, heroically taking damage, but still past the impediment.

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If the drain was AoE Constant Like the RKA, both can occupy the same area.  When the attack, attempts to go through the "wall" it would be drained suppressed. 

 

Hmm. I can actually see that working, due to the special effects of the power. However, you would need to Drain every ranged damage power with a suitable special effect (Blast AND RKA at least) and it gets a bit unwieldy.

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Or perhaps, since I'm the GM and I can OK it...

 

rDEF Area of Effect (per 6E1 p147) UOO with a linked RKA?

 

I'd go with jointly Linked in this case, since the one special effect causes both power effects.

 

Any useful bits on that page that didn't make it into CC?

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Nothing earth shattering, given that HERO is all about GM discretion/toolkitting the rules.

 

(Also, my understanding is that it's ok to quote small parts of the rules on the forums verbatim - if I'm mistaken, let me know!)

 

"Area Of Effect: Generally, characters should not

apply Area Of Effect to Defense Powers. If a character

wants to grant a Defense Power to a large

number of characters, he should use the Usable On

Others Advantage. However, in some situations,

based on special effects and other considerations,

a GM might allow Area Of Effect Defense Powers."

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Since I am waiting for a repair on a system to finish, this is how I would probably write it up for a villain.  It is indeed expensive, but if you think about it, it's really a gross power.

 

Disintegration wall:  (Total: 255 Active Cost, 146 Real Cost)

Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6, Area Of Effect (16m Line; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Constant (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 60) plus

Drain BODY, RKA, Blast 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points), Area Of Effect (16m Line; +1/4), Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Effect (x3 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1) (130 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Physical Attacks only; -1), Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 58) plus

Dust gets into you eyes:  Sight and Smell/Taste Groups Flash 1d6, Area Of Effect (16m Long, 2m Tall, 4m Wide Line; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Constant (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (35 Active Points); Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) (Real Cost: 28)

 

Defender: "Look an energy wall!  We are blocked."

Crusader: "Nonsense, be a real hero and jump through."  Takes a running start and "BLARGH!!!" Takes 11 Body 22 Stun, Drained 7 Body, takes 1 segments worth of flash.

Defender: <cough><cough> "Are you ok?"

Crusader: "I'll live."

Defender: "I think I'll just walk around."

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Nothing earth shattering, given that HERO is all about GM discretion/toolkitting the rules.

 

(Also, my understanding is that it's ok to quote small parts of the rules on the forums verbatim - if I'm mistaken, let me know!)

 

"Area Of Effect: Generally, characters should not

apply Area Of Effect to Defense Powers. If a character

wants to grant a Defense Power to a large

number of characters, he should use the Usable On

Others Advantage. However, in some situations,

based on special effects and other considerations,

a GM might allow Area Of Effect Defense Powers."

 

Yeah. I think that works then if he wants a wall that will affect third parties against other third parties. At the end of the day the special effect is simple and clear and not obviously open to abuse, so go with it.

 

If he just wants a one-way wall that protects himself, you'd just need regular personal defences.

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I would say the Drain body is unnecessary unless you want to reduce attacks coming instead of eliminating them (success!) or them coming through damaged but still viable (failure!)

 

I'm envioning it destroying musketballs and bolts (even if they aren't completely turned to powder they'd be weakened/thrown off so much as to be a non-threat).

 

Drive a car through it at high speed and you'll ruin the resale value but still get the full force of inertia hitting you plus almost all the mass.

 

Though if I go the rDEF route then I'll have to explore ways of making it opaque...

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This is one of those cases where the special effect (disintegration of incoming projectiles) distorts what the actual game effect is. Personally, I'd model this power as either resistant protection or damage negation and describe the special effect as a disintegration field. If you want to add gaps in the protection, add them as limitations. If you want to cause damage to people and things that enter the field, add the advantages to make it a damage shield. Things to consider:

  • Does this only provide physical protection? If yes, just buy resistant physical protection.
  • Does the field have any of these limitations? If yes, add a limited power limitation.
    • Only versus projectiles
    • Only versus inanimate objects
    • Only versus ranged attacks

FYI: In the real world, the energy required to utterly destroy a projectile before it can pass through a small space is immense and typically has its own side effects such as fusion-level-temperatures or black-hole-level-gravitation. For example, when a meteor enters the Earth's atmosphere you get a fireball (bolide). You wouldn't want to be anywhere near one of those as both the heat and concussion would ruin your day. So while the atmosphere does indeed disintegrate most meteors, there are side effects to that protection. Since I think you're going for the protection more than the side-effects, I'd suggest keeping it simple and select a protection power.

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FYI: In the real world, the energy required to utterly destroy a projectile before it can pass through a small space is immense and typically has its own side effects such as fusion-level-temperatures or black-hole-level-gravitation. For example, when a meteor enters the Earth's atmosphere you get a fireball (bolide). You wouldn't want to be anywhere near one of those as both the heat and concussion would ruin your day. So while the atmosphere does indeed disintegrate most meteors, there are side effects to that protection. Since I think you're going for the protection more than the side-effects, I'd suggest keeping it simple and select a protection power.

 

Fortunately - Magic :)

 

That's true enough, but if the disintegration effect is happening through something other than friction that point may not apply so much. Chemical reactions can disintegrate without huge energies being required, for example, and Traveller had super high-tech (i.e. not usually available) disintegrators that worked by manipulating atomic forces. That sort of handwavium is fine for superpowers and a magic spell doesn't really have to match physics at all. It's common for spells and powers to violate several laws of conservation (mass, energy, momentum etc)  :)

 

Also... bullets and arrows have FAR less momentum than a space rock, so the side effects may not be as major as you suspect. A typical 9mm pistol round is only about 500 Joules, rifles a couple of kilojoules. Boiling water to make a nice cup of coffee takes a lot more energy than that.

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The SFX is magic using the Destruction stream in my homebrew, which I've referenced elsewhere.

 

Short version: this particular stream is about the ability to manipulate/access the laws of reality that collectively constitute Entropy. At the weak end, practioners can weaken/destroy the stuff that holds stuff together - mortar between bricks, etc. Stronger, they can break down chemical bonds. Stronger still, they can break atomic bonds and split atoms. Allegedly, some rare few can literally delete atoms from existence entirely.

 

So, a short hand is that they disintegrate things as this dude is in the middle range and is known to his enemies (and allies) as Dust.

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My understanding of Barrier was that if you attacked it, you could destroy it, when physical attacks shouldn't be able to do that (magic would a fine way of dealing with the barrier though).

So buy it with 0 body ... meaning it only has defense ... and there's nothing to actually destroy.  (i.e. Exceed the defense and it goes down.)  Using Barrier in this way results in something whose position you can strategically control (i.e. position, shape, height, etc.) far more granularly than most AoE's ... and even make one-way transparent, if you want.  It also results in more of a magical field kind of thing ... where disintegration is just a special effect for magic or a projectile that doesn't exceed the defense of the 0 BODY Barrier...

 

Note:

This is also a lot closer to the original Force Wall concept from which Barrier's roots originate.

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