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System quirks (your favorite or least favorite)


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#61 Brian Stanfield

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

Thanks. Looks like the 6e RAW deals with this situation. I never noticed this in 5e and just assumed.


Page 26 has a sidebar on facing as well. There is no official facing rule, but they suggest it is a 0 phase action that cannot be taken at the end of a phase. I would simply rule otherwise in the situation you describe. If someone is already engaged in combat and their opponent moves around, I just assume they track the movement for "free" as part of the flow of combat. This of course introduces other problems, but I hunk if it's done with some constraint in situations which make sense, there's no problem with it.

Of course, once you take away the surprise bonus as the rule suggests, the point pretty much becomes moot.

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#62 mrinku

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:42 PM

This is addressed in APG1.

 

There's a major annoyance in itself. 4e didn't feel any need to continually produce volumes of new general rules. 

 

I don't mind a few new ideas in a genre book that are specific to that genre, but how can you make the core rules 700 pages and expect people to be happy about "Oh, and here's some stuff we left out"?

 

And "Oh, here's some more".

 

It was annoying in 1985 with Champions II and III, but at least the core books back then were tiny.



#63 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:39 PM

I think of it more as "yay new content" and not "those bastards ripping me off!"

 

The APGs are optional concepts and interesting ideas, not official rules or part of the game.  Just suggestions: here's some stuff to try out!


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#64 mrinku

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:38 AM

I realise that, but it still annoys.



#65 jdounis

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 02:43 AM

I think of it more as "yay new content" and not "those bastards ripping me off!"

 

The APGs are optional concepts and interesting ideas, not official rules or part of the game.  Just suggestions: here's some stuff to try out!

 

I would say not core rules, but official and part of the game yes, more like optional stuff that could exist in the 6e1/6e2.

 

  The main problem with the majority of pen and paper RPGs of many editions are the legacy rules and subsystems that 

continue to grow independently reaching a point that all these moving parts don't move in unison anymore.

  To make an example of the most famous RPG, take the armor system of D&D, 40+ years in existence

and D&D still has not get rid of the Armor Class concept that creates a myriad of problems/inconsistencies.

 The same can be said ***IMHO*** about the Speed Chart in HERO, it's more a magnet for problems than

a feature of the system, i would prefer an AD&D's like initiative modifier for actions than this "phase" system

if for example you want to attack two times in a turn? your base DEX is 10 the initiative modifier of your attack is

8 you attack at DEX 10 and DEX 2, if it is negative, tough luck you must wait for the next turn, you are too slow.

A streamlined Initiative/Action system could solve most problems/quirks of HERO.


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#66 mrinku

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:28 PM

A streamlined Initiative/Action system could solve most problems/quirks of HERO.

 

I agree. I think the Speed characteristic still has a place in all this, though.  Running it all through DEX (and maybe dropping Speed) is going to cause problems with backwards compatibility. Better to work out a mechanic that uses the existing Speed rating IMHO. I started a thread some time ago which thrashed some ideas out, but I'm sure there's plenty of other good ones.

 

A simple one would be a Speed countdown with everyone with Speed equal to or less of the count getting an action, though that might over-advantage the fast guys. But if the Speed range is narrow (as it usually is for Heroic), it gives much the same result.


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#67 L. Marcus

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:19 PM

The Falling Table irks me -- specifically the distance fallen part. It's conflated with velocity achieved.
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#68 mrinku

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:03 PM

The Falling Table irks me -- specifically the distance fallen part. It's conflated with velocity achieved.

 

Not sure why this is a problem for you. I find the "Distance Fallen" column quite handy at times for summarising the number of segments it's going to take for a given character to hit the pavement. i.e. Lois falls off a 50 storey building (say 150m). That gives Superman five segments/seconds to do something about it.



#69 L. Marcus

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:32 PM

Look at the first entry on the distance table -- it says that in one segment, i.e. one second, one falls ten meters. This should be five meters. The formula for distance fallen under constant acceleration, without any initial velocity, is s(t) = (a t^2)/2. Set the acceleration to 10 m/s^2 (close enough for gov'ment business), the first five entries should be 5, 20, 45, 80, and 125 meters.


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"Things would be much better if more things were on fire." -- lemming

"I may not be consistent, but I'm happily schizoid." -- "V"

"Trouble expands to fill the space available." -- Markdoc

Do you know what becomes of dead dreams?

#70 Grailknight

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:02 PM

Umm, acceleration of gravity is 9.81m/sec^2 in the atmosphere so 10 meters is based on reality.



#71 mrinku

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:07 PM

Oh, fair point. I thought you had some issue with having the column at all.

 

Hmm. Should have noticed that one myself. Very surprised it's been like that without correction for decades.

 

@Grailnight: It takes a second for the falling body to accelerate to a speed of roughly 10m per second, but during that second it's moving at a slower velocity (from an initial 0 m/s to 10 m/s) and only travels 5m. The formula is correct.



#72 L. Marcus

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:23 PM

I asked Steve about it once, but he didn't feel that it's a big enough thing to correct.
"Things would be much better if more things were on fire." -- lemming

"I may not be consistent, but I'm happily schizoid." -- "V"

"Trouble expands to fill the space available." -- Markdoc

Do you know what becomes of dead dreams?

#73 mrinku

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:18 PM

Possibly the wrong Steve was asked (i.e. Peterson), a lot later than he should have been (i.e. prior to 1990) :) 

 

In any case, I'm grateful for you pointing it out and have pencilled the correction to my copy of CC. Probably needs more tweaking in regards to terminal velocity drag, but I'm more than happy to let THAT one go through to the keeper.



#74 Chris Goodwin

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:59 AM

In stuff I've written, I've noted more than once that, despite its appearance, the HERO System is a game system, not a physics textbook.  :)  Accelerate then move works well enough for most purposes, but if you want to use real world constant acceleration values it shouldn't hurt anything.  The operative value for damage is the velocity more than the distance.  High school physics was a loooong time ago for me so I'd have to print out a table to keep it handy and refer to it every time; it's easier and more intuitive for me to do accelerate then move.  


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#75 mrinku

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:37 PM

Yes, the velocity after each segment of falling was never the issue, and (simplified falling for shorter distances aside) distance fallen itself won't determine damage done, just velocity reached before impact. Very long falls can just be done with distance divided by terminal velocity... the initial few seconds taken to reach 60m per second or so don't matter much in a 2000m dive.

 

But jotting in the correct numbers is a quick and easy fix.