What powers would you allow in a variable power pool, or a multi-power for that matter?

[Panpiper]

I'm in the process of building a Witch, a magic power pool wielding sorceress (built as a 400 point super). The power pool actually costs substantially more than a multipower with ten ultra slots and comes with downsides the multipower does not, like needing a half phase to change powers PLUS a skill roll that could fail. To get my points worth, I was highly motivated to pack every obvious power I could into her pool, I'd need a lot more than ten to feel good about not using a multipower instead. As I was doing this, it because quite obvious to me that much of what I was adding could be problematic for many GMs/games. This then begs the question, which powers would 'you' allow in your game? I'll present the character I am in the process of building as an initial example of where things could go.

Morgana_Adams_Revision1.hdc

Morgana_Adams_Character_Sheet_Revision1.pdf

[Grailknight]

I'd be good with everything but the Shapeshift and I'd allow that if you changed the character's complications somewhat. It negates the complications except when she is actively using her powers.

[Panpiper]

5 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

I'd be good with everything but the Shapeshift and I'd allow that if you changed the character's complications somewhat. It negates the complications except when she is actively using her powers.

I agree. I had added that power when those current Complications were already written for a previous incarnation of the character (that did 'not' have that power in the pool). I'm waiting on a solid final character build before fleshing out her backstory and such, which no doubt will greatly inform her complications.

[eepjr24]

Specific things I would not allow and why:

 

Transdimensional on Teleport: This is called Extra Dimensional Movement and is a defined power.

Precog / Retrocog Clairsentience: Campaign breaker unless the GM decides to make it useless. If you bought with "Vague and Unclear" I would consider it.

Entropy: I don't allow AVAD "Defenses" structured as "Not a dwarf" or the like. It must be a power or the like that can be acquired. 

Courage / Will: I prefer you buy these as AID to the appropriate characteristic from both a flavor and a mechanical standpoint. However, if you did buy aid here, you could get 8d6 of AID with an area of effect of 4m and eliminate the need for them to stay in sight.

 

Questions / Suggestions:

1. Why do you have combo powers in a VPP? I mean, it's legal, but it reduces your versatility. Buy the Flight and Desolid as separate powers.

2. On the invocation of water, I assume this is to avoid killing villains or bystanders outright? Why not go ahead and make it Reduced Penetration? And probably you could add in No Knockback to help even more, KB on even on 6d6 normal can kill a civilian with bad rolls.

3. I would add "Only Magic Effects" to the entire pool, for -1/4. Saves 6 points.

4. Why are all the powers without limitations? Part of the flexibility of a VPP is to have a variety of options available to you at one time. The way you have set it up you can basically only keep one power at a time in it? Example: https://surbrook.devermore.com/adaptationstv/asstd_tv/macgyver.html

5. Ditch the Reduced End / Zero END advantages. If you get to low on END, set up an AID to REC or an AID to END. 

6. Set up some spells with Foci (wand, staff, rod, skull, whatever). This cuts the real points, giving you options for keeping multiple things up at once. Not everything, of course, you want to be able to operate without them, but villains like having things to knock out of your hand and it sometimes saves you getting shot instead.

7. Set up some Full Phase attack actions, maybe with a couple other limitations as well. They won't always be what you use, but options are key with a VPP.

 

- E

[unclevlad]

The invocation of entropy is fine because the defense is EXTREMELY common;  I'd call it at least -1, possibly more.  Unless undead or robots are gonna be common.  That said, the point that AVADs structured like this is dubious, is a good one.  And, why do a KA vs AVAD?  It does NOT do BODY and the stun's pathetic.

 

First:  the pool's 87.  With the skill roll, 106.  The multi would be 50, 10 ultra slots would be another 50, for 100.  So close to a wash.  Second, you miss the big thing:  Requires a Skill Roll on the VPP.  Same skill can be used.  You're at 15-, which succeeds 95% of the time... and spent 2 more points on the skill, it goes to succeeding 53 out of 54 times...over 98%.  Doing this you can ditch the Delayed Phase (which, BTW, I would NEVER allow, not with your DEX...you'll be going last all the time anyway).  62 active --> 41 real for the VPP.  Also, the -1/2 Common Mod also helps with the control cost.  31 real points, 62 active points (Only Magic Effects as eep suggests is straight out of the book (6E1 410) and is another -1/4)...find a -1/4 Limit for everything OR use slightly less dice (you've already got a -3/4 limit, so you have as much as 55 Active on a power before you need that last -1.4).  TOTAL cost right now?  57 points.

 

Spend 4 of those points and raise that skill roll to 23-.  Now you botch on an 18 only.  Yes, it's rude.

 

I do disagree with eep about buying the 1/2 END.  When you really look at it, it's dirt cheap here.  Setting up that AID is something I personally think is cheesy as heck, and it's costing you actions.  NO THANKS.

 

Slot comments:  I agree that precog and retrocog are a major hassle for the GM.

Invoc of Life:  split the healing from the regen

Invoc of Courage/Will...these only last while you maintain the points, so...what's the point?

Invoc of Transformation:  as mentioned, this blows your complications away for the most part, at least outside combat.  

Invoc of Stealth:  you're invis to sight and hearing, what's invis power effects for?  You don't NEED to spend the full points, and in a VPP, you don't WANT to.  You could go invis to sight ONLY, 0 END, for no cost...and throw in some flying.  

These slots feel very much like D&D spell slots.  This isn't D&D.   

 

Invoc of Iron:  A D&D Wall of Iron spell...why?  

Invoc of Lightning:  AP RKA????  Are you planning to leave corpses in your wake?  Even in a darker, gritty game, cutting this loose is putting a BIG HONKIN TARGET on yourself because YOU ARE DANGEROUS.  Note that you'd take 4 BODY from this, and you have a HUGE number of points in defenses.  (50% rPD is nice but EXPENSIVE).

Granted it seems clear you're gonna use the Invoc of Water, as that's where you've got the levels...so it's non-lethal, but that just makes an AP killing attack even more odd to me.  AP normal is bad enough.  Or RKA...ditch the Invoc of Entropy, an RKA against something non-living is gonna work just fine.

 

The other general comment about the VPP is, what's the character's perceived role?  D&D PC classes covered would be seer, healer-type, bard-type, sneaky-rogue type, and blaster type.  So what's the party for?

 

EDIT:  noted a problem.  Only Magic special effect is a VPP limitation, not a common limitation, so it doesn't shave points from the real cost.  A -3/4 common limitation on 62 points should be 34, I think, not 31.

[Panpiper]

19 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

...

"Transdimensional on Teleport: This is called Extra Dimensional Movement and is a defined power."

 

Err... Yes? That's how I bought it, no? It an effect you add to teleport. It's sitting right there in Hero Designer when you are building a teleportation power.

 

The point of this power essentially a plot device to to let the players get to whatever scenario the GM cooks up, including the possibility of things going awry in other dimensions where the GM can get seriously creative. It is NOT meant to take GMs on a joyride with the character.

 

"Precog / Retrocog Clairsentience: Campaign breaker unless the GM decides to make it useless. If you bought with "Vague and Unclear" I would consider it."

 

I always assumed that such precognition and retrocognition was vague and unclear, by 'definition'. Is that not so? The point of the power is to let the GM feed clues to the players, not be used to outright end mysteries.

 

 

"1. Why do you have combo powers in a VPP? I mean, it's legal, but it reduces your versatility. Buy the Flight and Desolid as separate powers."

 

I suppose for simplicity's sake and a shorter character sheet. I could not see any other instance in which 10 points of flight would be used with any other power as they all use the full pool, all except desolid. Also, I see her VPP powers as being 'spells' that she has put together. It is not simply a list of power effects the GM has OKed in advance. Her pool is too small to use multiple powers at once, so it was just simpler to create the exact effect she'd be going for in each instance. There is no instance in which she would go desolid, without also being able to float.

 

 

"2. On the invocation of water, I assume this is to avoid killing villains or bystanders outright? Why not go ahead and make it Reduced Penetration? And probably you could add in No Knockback to help even more, KB on even on 6d6 normal can kill a civilian with bad rolls."

 

As I understand it, an attack that is "Stun Only" does no body, and therefor does no knockback. A game I am in just two weeks ago threw a child at us that was pulsing 30d6 explosions in the middle of a residential neighborhood. There were already civilian deaths and casualties. We needed to stop him and fast, because he was pulsing every few seconds, but we had nothing that did no body. I reduced my EB to 10d6 and 'pulled' it to do half body. Apparently I almost killed him. Reduced penetration is not sufficient for a power meant to NOT kill normals.

 

That power's effect is to cause ice cold water from the depths of the ocean to suddenly soak the target to the bone. It's the thermal shock and sudden vasodilation that causes them to faint. There's no knockback there. I think it is nonsensical to build a power that won't kill normals and expect the character to 'therefore', for all intents make it useless against supervillains because the cost reduces the dice to ineffectual numbers. I want a spell that can be used against both, and will kill neither.

 

"3. I would add "Only Magic Effects" to the entire pool, for -1/4. Saves 6 points."

 

Given that I have already defined all the powers as mystical/magical, I guess that would make sense. I was not aware that was available as a 'limitation'.

 

 

"4. Why are all the powers without limitations? Part of the flexibility of a VPP is to have a variety of options available to you at one time. The way you have set it up you can basically only keep one power at a time in it?"

 

That was the intent. It is her spell book, a list of the possible things she might cast. on  The character was originally built using a multipower where the ultra slots 'were' the spells she could cast. On the advice of several I converted her to use a VPP, and thematically a VPP makes more sense for her conception. But her VPP is not large enough to do multiple things in the same phase, or have more than one power going at once. So there is little point in defining some spells as smaller so other 'small' spells can be used concurrently. I would never use her that way.

 

 

"5. Ditch the Reduced End / Zero END advantages. If you get to low on END, set up an AID to REC or an AID to END."

 

Again, if I am not going to be having other 'small' effects going, there is little point to using more endurance. Sure I could create a spell effect she could pop off every once in a while, forgoing other actions, but I would gain nothing by doing so if I'm not going to use other small powers concurrently, and I WOULD loose those action phases for recovery castings.

 

 

"6. Set up some spells with Foci (wand, staff, rod, skull, whatever). This cuts the real points, giving you options for keeping multiple things up at once. Not everything, of course, you want to be able to operate without them, but villains like having things to knock out of your hand and it sometimes saves you getting shot instead."

 

I understand where you are going with that, and that might be fine for a different character that was again, intending other concurrent powers to be in effect. However in this case, where she wouldn't, it 'also' violates the vision I have in my head for her power. Samantha Stephens wiggled her nose and did whatever magic she wished. Jeannie crossed her arms and blinked. I see this character as manipulating magic much the way Wanda does in the Marvel series. None of them haul out wands, voodoo dolls or crystals.

 

 

"7. Set up some Full Phase attack actions, maybe with a couple other limitations as well. They won't always be what you use, but options are key with a VPP."

 

Again makes sense for someone intending concurrent effect, but that would require a much larger pool. All her powers are already using the maximum points 'allowed' (assuming a 62 active point limit). She would gain nothing from making them "full phase" other than to deny herself the ability to change to that power and use it on the same phase.

[eepjr24]

14 minutes ago, Panpiper said:

"Transdimensional on Teleport: This is called Extra Dimensional Movement and is a defined power."

 

Err... Yes? That's how I bought it, no? It an effect you add to teleport. It's sitting right there in Hero Designer when you are building a teleportation power.

 

The point of this power essentially a plot device to to let the players get to whatever scenario the GM cooks up, including the possibility of things going awry in other dimensions where the GM can get seriously creative. It is NOT meant to take GMs on a joyride with the character.

Most of the rest of your comments go to your intent for the powers, so I won't address those, opinions are opinions and equally valid. 

 

But no, just because something is available to be bought in Hero Designer does not make it legal or valid. 6e1, 303 / FREd 235:

 

Quote

Transdimensional: Characters cannot buy this Advantage for Teleportation; use Extra-Dimensional Movement to travel to other dimensions and realities.

So the power you built originally would be more like: (unless you are talking time travel as well, then start at 77 CP)

 

EDM: Any physical location in any dimension [45 CP]; Area Of Effect: 2m Radius (+1/4), Usable Simultaneous: 16 others (+1 1/4); Real Cost: 112

 

You would be a lot better off saying you needed to research each dimension and just building a spell for each one. More like:

 

EDM: Any physical location in one defined dimension [22 CP]; Area Of Effect: 2m Radius (+1/4), Usable Simultaneous: 16 others (+1 1/4); Real Cost: 55

 

If it's just a plot device, then the GM probably would not even need to see the point structures, because no matter what they will provide a way for it to happen.

 

- E