Linked vs. Trigger

[Longrife7211]

I  am trying to understand the subtle difference between these two. I have seen them used together and also individually without the other.

 

For example, looking at the Champions Powers book, on page 300, they are used together for LIFE FORCE TRANSFER. Since LINKED combines two or more separate power into one, does that mean that LINKED is always used with TRIGGER?

 

Can someone who share with me what the difference is and when to use them together as well as when it is acceptable to use them separately?

 

 

Thank you.

[Longrife7211]

I should clarify this more by also asking how UNIFIED POWER works with TRIGGER. Does a UNIFIED POWER also always use a TRIGGER? What if LINKED is used? Could a power be made that uses UNIFIED POWER and LINKED that does not use or require a TRIGGER?

 

Thank you.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Longrife7211

[Christopher R Taylor]

Linked ties two different powers together so that they always act in concert.  The "life force transfer" is a good example: drain plus aid, always works together.  Its a drawback as well as a bonus many times (maybe you don't want your opponent to slow down when you use your blast+running drain, but you cannot fire one without the other).

 

Trigger sets up an ability to act when given circumstances are met, automatically activating.  Like a spell that turns on when you are attacked, or a mine that goes off when a certain amount of pressure is applied to it.   Trigger doesn't care if you are able to act on that segment or are even present.

 

Linked kind of acts like trigger in that one ability goes off on its own, but its the same as activating two powers at once.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Linked ties two different powers together so that they always act in concert.  The "life force transfer" is a good example: drain plus aid, always works together.  Its a drawback as well as a bonus many times (maybe you don't want your opponent to slow down when you use your blast+running drain, but you cannot fire one without the other).

 

Not true.  They don't have to.  6E1 384:

 

Quote

A character can Link multiple powers together so that the lesser power in the first greater + lesser combination serves as the greater power for a second combination. For example, a character could have a Blast 10d6 plus a Linked Drain 3d6. He could then Link a Flash 4d6 to the Drain. He can use the Blast + Drain without using the Flash, but he has to use the Drain to use the Flash, and he can’t use either of them without using the Blast.

 

Linked says, power B can only be used when power A is used.  In the example above, the character can choose

Blast

Blast + Drain

Blast + Drain + Flash

 

The case you describe is when A is linked to B, and B is linked to A, or Jointly Linked.

 

Also note that Linked is always a Limitation, altho in some cases it can be -0.  

 

You can also have a case like

Desolid, costs END only to activate

 

linked to 

Flight 20", x8 NC, 0 END

LS:  self contained breathing

 

When you turn on the Desolid, sure, the LS can kick in with no drawback...but the Flight does have a mild drawback (Knockback rules).  So you don't have to.  Or maybe you put Invis Power Effects on your Desolid, so it's not glaringly obvious you're desolid.  Flying would make maintaining the illusion of solidity...trickier.  So, you wouldn't have to use it.   Here, it's just saying that when you're solid, you can't fly.  

 

The text on 6E1 385:

Quote

USING LINKED POWERS

When a character uses two (or more) Linked powers, he activates and uses them simultaneously.

 

does not change anything from 384.  "When a character uses" talks about the case that the character has chosen to use both.  It does NOT imply a requirement to do so. 

 

[HeroGM]

In some way Rogue would be a decent example depending on how you do it.

 

When Rogue touches someone she gets their memories as well as powers (if any). Yeah yeah, transform. Look at it also with a mental attack linked to a VPP or drain. It uses a trigger of touching someone.

[dmjalund]

Unified has nothing to do with Trigger. Unified means they are linked by a common special effect, and if you drain one of them, they ALL get affected.

[unclevlad]

35 minutes ago, HeroGM said:

When Rogue touches someone she gets their memories as well as powers (if any). Yeah yeah, transform. Look at it also with a mental attack linked to a VPP or drain. It uses a trigger of touching someone.

 

That's linked but it isn't a Trigger, unless the mental attack requires some special setup.

 

A classic Trigger would be a trap on a pressure plate.  Takes a turn to set up (Extra Time) but when that time is expired, the power does NOT activate.  It's prepped, it's ready...it's waiting for an external event...someone of sufficient mass stepping on the plate.  (Pressure plates might be set to NOT trigger on, say, 10 pounds or less, so a bird landing on it doesn't set it off.)  

 

Some examples of Trigger: 

--parry and riposte:  requires that you can act, usually.  The attack is your HKA sword.  The trigger is "when I successfully Block a melee attack."  So when you make the block, you immediately get to roll a counterattack.  Most GMs will require that you're Holding;  this can't be done if you abort.

--a bomb might have 2 or 3 Triggers...if it's disturbed (a vial of mercury...if it shakes, it triggers the bomb), countdown timer, or radio.  Note that the bomb itself might have Extra Time (5 minutes), and RSR Demolitions.  That's to set it up...and that's the bomb maker.  It can be carried by a grunt (the mercury trigger NOT enabled or not used) to where it's set to go off.  Grunt sets it in place, activates the timer, and moves to a safe distance...with the RF activator.  Also note that the RF activator *itself* may have a Trigger...it's actually a dead man switch.  STOP pressing the button, it triggers the bomb.

--a security system.  Say it has a motion sensor.  When the sensor detects motion, it activates lights and cameras, and maybe locks down windows/exits.  Intruder notifications get sent.  The system works with no further intervention once it's armed.

 

There are some intentional Triggers;  that's allowed.  A power might require extensive setup, like the bomb, but the trigger might be "when I say Ooompa-Loompa."  Or when I say "there's no place like home" while clicking my heels together.

[HeroGM]

Um her power doesn't trigger unless she touches someone. Doesn't matter. Uncontrolled trigger, always happens with skin to skin.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Not true.  They don't have to

 

Yeah, I was trying to give him the intro version so he understands the distinction between the two modifiers, like he asked.  Instead of blasting him with calculus when he wants to know what 2+2 is.  You gotta ease people into this stuff, not dump it all on their heads all at once.

 

So Longrife, if you're still there and not running away screaming, the full rules are more complicated so you can make really specific builds, but you don't have to worry about that with what you're asking.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, HeroGM said:

Um her power doesn't trigger unless she touches someone. Doesn't matter. Uncontrolled trigger, always happens with skin to skin.

 

 

That isn't Trigger, it's Always On.  Trigger is an advantage.  What's the gain here?  Uncontrolled is also an advantage;  it lets a power remain active without further effort...so an Uncontrolled attack power does damage until its END is gone.  (Uncontrolled requires Constant.)  An Uncontrolled defense remains up even if the user's stunned.  What you may be thinking of is No Conscious Control, which is mostly intended for plot device powers.  NCC becomes active at the GM's whim.  Always On means exactly that...it is always in effect, the character can't turn it on or off, it's always at full strength.

 

I actually did this once...stole the radiation accident origin, built a brick who had an Always On Drain.  He liked to meet new people with his hand out, sayin, "how ya doin?" and hoping they'd shake.  ZAP!!!!  It was a standard Drain, so it'd wear off fast.  Yeah, he was a sick puppy.   And loved to grapple someone.  If they didn't break out REAL quick, forget it, because it was a STR drain.  Something else too, IIRC, but that was a LONG time ago.....

 

Drain (or Transform, as you prefer), No Range, Requires Skin to Skin, 0 END, Persistent, Always On.  Bingo.  Actually, not quite:  there is a No Conscious Control in there too, as she can't choose what gets drained.  

[Longrife7211]

8 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Yeah, I was trying to give him the intro version so he understands the distinction between the two modifiers, like he asked.  Instead of blasting him with calculus when he wants to know what 2+2 is.  You gotta ease people into this stuff, not dump it all on their heads all at once.

 

So Longrife, if you're still there and not running away screaming, the full rules are more complicated so you can make really specific builds, but you don't have to worry about that with what you're asking.

 

Thanks for the encouragement, Christopher!

 

[HeroGM]

Fine.  This is why I don't post as much anymore. In a game where you can do things multiple ways, someone always comes out to prove how wrong my opinion or example is. This time I am done.

[LoneWolf]

Trigger lets you setup a power that activates under specific circumstances.  One of the things it is useful for is setting up a trap.  Like anything in the Hero System, it can be used for a lot of different things.  By purchasing it with an automatic reset it is possible to set up a kind of double attack.  Since it is an advantage and an automatic reset increases the value of the advantage it can get expensive.  Most of the time when it is used like this is to setup something that is not normally allowed.  For example you could purchase an attack that is triggered when you successfully block.

 

A linked power is where you have one power that can only be used when the other is used.  Normally you link the lesser power to the greater, but at the GMS option you can link the greater power to a lesser power.  The linked power can only be used when the power it is linked to is used.  Linked is a limitation so it actually reduces the cost of the linked power. 

 

A triggered attack is a separate attack and will often require its own attack roll.  For example if you have a counter strike that is bought as a HKA triggered by a block.  You have to first make the block, and if you do you can roll to hit with the HKA.   You could successfully block the attack, but miss the roll to hit on the HKA. This still only takes a ½ phase as the triggered attack does not require an action.

 

A linked attack uses one attack roll.  If you hit with the first attack the target is automatically hit with the linked attack.  In some cases the you may need to penetrate the targets defense or the linked attack does For example if you have a drain defined as a poison linked to a HKA defined as a knife you need to actually cut the target for them to be poisoned.

 

In some cases the linked is going to be the better way to go.  If your chance of hitting is low your chance of affecting the target with the triggered attack is more difficult.  You may need to hit both times for both effects to happen.

 

Like anything in the Hero System the special effect of the powers is going to affect how it operates.