A gaming conundrum

[Cygnia]

On 10/2/2023 at 9:31 AM, Cygnia said:

Play a character with a heroic personality in a game of heroic fantasy?  That's just crazy talk!

 

--->This post over in Funny Pics got me thinking in how much I need right now to be a hero in gaming.  That I'm just so tired of grimdark upon wangst upon Nothing You Do Matters.

 

The D&D game I was GMing is on break right now due to the kids going back to college -- and that was actually going well, so there's that.  The 7th Sea game I was co-GMing with the hubby...well, that sort of crashed and burned.  Even despite asking the players to be invested in the story, they seemed content to be on the sidelines and be passive as all get out.  I concede that hubby's plot (which he was REALLY excited about) might not have been the best for roleplaying, but regardless it felt like a joke.  Even after trying to give them plot hooks to bite and asking if there was something he should be doing better, they stubbornly treated this like they were watching "Upstairs, Downstairs" or "Downton Abbey".

 

And yet, this wasn't out of malice or disrespect -- it just didn't work. So, he's scrapped this campaign and is doing a new one.  One I get to be a player in for a change -- and he knows I want to be Heroic.  Come hell or highwater, it's gonna happen.

...is it me?  Am I the problem?

 

My Wednesday game -- no one else seems to care.  I mean, they claim they're enjoying themselves -- but I'm cynical enough to wonder if their enjoyment comes from finding anything that might look like a rail they could blow up. (2 of the other 3 players at least -- the 3rd is just so damn passive).  And these are the guys in their 40's-50's -- these are the guys who are supposed to KNOW better!  Hell, one of the players was bemoaning a con he was GMing where the people at the table wanted to torture NPCs!  And at our table, he's just looking to throw monkey wrenches.

 

This is a group that cares more about a stolen book than 3 murdered people from their organization.  And who appears to hate the owner of said stolen book more than the person who stole it (and framed us)!

 

I don't know what to do here.  My husband senses my frustration, says there'll be moments for me to shine on the horizon.  And I'm now dreading the group will somehow sabotage me when I try to do anything.  Not out of malice -- I swear.  But it's just hard to get through to them to actually be proactive (same problem in the previous game hubby GM'ed) and care about what's going on.

 

Having one of those 3 GM isn't the solution -- two will not do it.  And the third will only GM his con games he has pre-gens for, so any hope of having an adventure tailored around any backstory hooks is SOL.  I need to feel like what my character does matters.  That I can make a difference.  My pretendy fun time games that I use to escape frustration in Real Life shouldn't be giving me frustration too!

 

(meanwhile, I resume GMing the 5e game at the end of the month -- nothing to stress about there yet)

[Rich McGee]

15 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

Hell, one of the players was bemoaning a con he was GMing where the people at the table wanted to torture NPCs!  And at our table, he's just looking to throw monkey wrenches.

I wonder if that particular problem might be a habit acquired from playtesting too much in the past.  When you playtest an adventure (even a short con game that isn't going to be sold commercially) you're kind of expected to do what you can to break the game by ferreting out likely plot holes, wrong turns that won't drive the overall adventure forward, NPC motivations that don't make sense and other things.  You aren't expected to be as vicious about it with RPGs as board or minis game playtesting because you just can't catch every bizarre thing that real players might do, but some stress testing does help.  If you do a lot of that sort of thing it can become a habit that's hard to shake, or even notice yourself doing.  The guy may subconsciously think he's helping by finding points that break easily.

 

Or maybe he's just kind of a jerk.

 

Sympathies on the frustration, regardless.

Edited January 7 by Rich McGee

[Doc Democracy]

17 hours ago, Cygnia said:

This is a group that cares more about a stolen book than 3 murdered people from their organization.  And who appears to hate the owner of said stolen book more than the person who stole it (and framed us)!

 

It is interesting, my group has a lot of passive agents too.  I am 100% active and it makes me wonder how much in-game conversation you have compared to player conversation.

 

We are probably 40/60 or lower but it means I drive the game narratively by laying out options and opportunities and then doing in character talk (and sometimes rolls) to provoke action.

 

I find they go along massively, just as readily as they frustrate passively.  I almost always have to play a face character to allow me to do that.

 

It is almost impossible when I am GM unless I railroad them but sometimes they even seem to enjoy that.

 

Doc

[Duke Bushido]

Is there like some sort of general billboard where local groups looking for players posts stuff?

 

I am not generally pessimistic, but I think you and hubby need whole new gaming environs.

 

 

[Cygnia]

We were SUPPOSED to fight a Big Bad last night.

 

I say "supposed to" as 2 weeks ago (real time) we arrived in a little village under a curse.  For eighteen years, the townsfolk can't leave the village/cross a certain border, else a monstrous wolf creature will hunt them down -- and if anyone successfully escapes out of the forest, said wolf will kill 3 villagers per escapee.  So, the village is now made up of more elderly folk who would not be able to cross the border in time (GM Hubby: "No, you don't have enough room to just put them all in your cart" *sighs*).  2 of the PCs earlier met a ghost who had been killed by said wolf creature and would like to be put to his final rest.  Plus, this town might have a lead about some ruins the Explorers are supposed to be looking for in the form of the very odd statue in the middle of town that's older than the village itself. 

 

Leads!  Plot hooks!  Advancement galore, right?!

 

Jack of all trades PC instead wants to hear all the life stories of these villagers!  And set traps for small game to help gather food.  Nevermind the fact the villagers have been doing this for nearly 20 years themselves.  Noble PC wants to bunk up and read the Stupid Book (aka the Book that's more important than the 3 murdered NPCs).  Nevermind the fact that the page that has Info has been sliced out already -- and she knows this.  I at least convince her to take rubbings of the inscription of the statue.  Bodyguard PC wants to set up defenses around the town.  Again, Nevermind the fact the villagers have been doing this for nearly 20 years themselves.  I search the residence where the ghost stayed before his final hunt, find a locket left behind, then ask what if anything the villagers know about this dead man -- who tell me which direction he headed off to way back when.

 

Hubby's frustration is seething.  I decide to go in said direction in order to find clues and Bodyguard PC deigns to come with me.  Other 2 PCs insist upon staying, so we can only really blaze a trail for a while rather than set up for The Fight (because the hubby wants us all there).

 

Last night!  Noble, Bodyguard and me are ready to head back into this bog!  Jack of all trades AGAIN wants to STAY IN TOWN to listen to all the villager stories, all the while not so subtly goading Hubby GM into activating his Hubris in order to go with the rest of us.

 

And then insists on bringing the Stupid Book with him.  Even AFTER GM has point blank said "There's nothing useful in it -- What you need is in the missing page Scoundrel NPC took."

 

Going through this crummy bog, Jack loses the Stupid Book in the mud after a poor roll and it falls out.  It takes him a while to realize this.  Meanwhile, the rest of us find an interesting dead tree that's the final resting place of the ghost and--

 

Jack INSISTS on wandering off to FIND the Stupid Book.  Nevermind the muck and bugs and wet and ick! He throws all his drama dice into FINDING THE BOOK.  OK, the rest of us are at the tree, find the dead guy's remains, GM begins to have the ghost speak--

 

Only to be cut off by the Noble PC who is complaining about how she doesn't understand her knacks and skillsets and how useless they seem to be and--

 

I am FEELING the tension in my husband.  And it's in me too by now as my PC is trying to hear the ghost's advice on how to hopefully kill the wolf monster and has been tasked in returning the locket to his lost love and--

 

More OOC comments and irrelevant questions and Jack channeling Arnold from Predator with all the damn mud.  The Stupid Book is now caked and saturated by the mud, rendering it practically unreadable.  (And afterwards, I warn hubby that the rest of the PCs would probably look forward to returning this destroyed book to the guy they don't like regardless of the consequences/throw all the shiny math rocks they can into mitigating any potential reputation damage.  He says there's no way that's gonna happen).  By now it's 20 minutes to our closing time, so I suggest we at least set up some fires to help see in the dark and to at least try to set up some assemblance of an attack plan before logging off for the night?

It takes all 20 minutes to agree on where to put the fires.

 

Hubby is mentally checking out at this point.  He's promising to at least deal with my backstory in the coming weeks, but he's just giving the rest of the group the barest minimum. 😕

[Rich McGee]

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Leads!  Plot hooks!  Advancement galore, right?!

Sounds fine. 

 

I confess I'd probably be considering shenanigans myself rather than the obvious hooks, like (if all the villagers actually want to leave, which I imagine isn't unanimous) trying to convince them to leave en mass and armed as best they can manage and see if BB Wolf can handle all of them plus the party at once, or if it just lets them go and has no one left in the village to kill for spite when they escape.  I mean, if the party can't take the wolf with all that help (weak as it is) then they can't take it alone either.  But that sort of plan is easy enough to deflect by just having some villagers refuse to leave, and others incapable of travelling period (broken leg, older than Methuselah, sickly infant, etc.).

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Jack of all trades PC instead wants to hear all the life stories of these villagers!

Okay, so the GM fast forwards through the boring ones ("Most of them have nothing interesting to say, but this guy/gal...") and uses the others to drip feed info about the ghost guy's past, the curse, the odd statue and whatever else he thinks you need to know.  Throw in a d6 or so other portentous-sounding rumors and local myths to confuse the issue a bit and Jack is done, although the Noble might unwittingly liven up his night for him (see below).

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Noble PC wants to bunk up and read the Stupid Book (aka the Book that's more important than the 3 murdered NPCs).  Nevermind the fact that the page that has Info has been sliced out already -- and she knows this.  I at least convince her to take rubbings of the inscription of the statue.

Granted that's dumb, but the GM can have one or more of the villagers approach her while she's messing around with the statue and feed her some (possibly very wrong) stories as well, which might mess things up later but at least gives her something she has to interact with.  Or heck, she triggers something while taking the rubbings and she and Jack have to fight off a summoned monster or something.  "A man comes in with a gun in his hand..." is good writing advice for plot slowdowns, and it adapts easily to D&D.

 

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Bodyguard PC wants to set up defenses around the town.  Again, Nevermind the fact the villagers have been doing this for nearly 20 years themselves.

Another chance to force him to interact with the NPCs.  Have some of them offer to help out and spend the whole time complaining about how the rest of the village doesn't take the Wolf threat seriously enough, interspersed with tales of the godawful slaughter the thing's wreaked on the village in the past when someone did get away. 

 

"Tore Old McCoot apart right over there by the stable, just like a fox on a chicken!  There was blood everywhere!  We buried what was left in a bucket!"  Throw some hints about what it's immune to and maybe what a weakness might be, depending on how well the player engages.  And heck, maybe the defenses actually come in handy at some point - like if Jack and the Noble are having to fight an unexpected demon, perhaps. 

 

WHUMP!  "Ow!  Who puts a camouflaged spiked pit right in the main street?" - plaintive demonic voice from the bottom of a freshly-dug pit

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

And then insists on bringing the Stupid Book with him.  Even AFTER GM has point blank said "There's nothing useful in it -- What you need is in the missing page Scoundrel NPC took."

At that point, as GM, I'd be asking him flat out what he's hoping to do with the thing.  I assume it isn't actually slowing him down to lug it around so the obsession doesn't hurt any, but if there's some grand scheme he and the Noble have in mind this is the time to SAY SOMETHING so the GM can start thinking about how to play into it.  Maybe they actually have a clever idea for the future.  If not, I can't see how it's hurting anything once they've both read the thing.

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Jack INSISTS on wandering off to FIND the Stupid Book.  Nevermind the muck and bugs and wet and ick! He throws all his drama dice into FINDING THE BOOK. 

And that's why I'd ask earlier.  This is deranged on the surface, but if the book is key to some scheme of those two then taking it away from him is going to trigger this kind of response.  You can still have him lose it to a random roll if you want to quash the scheme, but do it openly - he sees the thing fall into quicksand and sink beyond retrieval or it disintegrates in acidic water or whatever.  Having him lose it without noticing is telling him he might still recover it, and leads to this kind of goofiness.  Some players have this weird idea that GMs are the enemy and that they need to hide "surprise" plans from them like a kid concealing Halloween candy from their parents, which is the exact opposite of how to get a GM to work toward some idea of yours.  Maddening, I know.

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Only to be cut off by the Noble PC who is complaining about how she doesn't understand her knacks and skillsets and how useless they seem to be and--

 You folks are playing online, right?  If she did that face to face I declare her hopeless, and even online that's grounds for everyone to tell her to stifle it for now.  That sort of thing can be worked out between sessions, not at the climax of the night.  Rude AF, as the kids say.

 

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

And afterwards, I warn hubby that the rest of the PCs would probably look forward to returning this destroyed book to the guy they don't like regardless of the consequences/throw all the shiny math rocks they can into mitigating any potential reputation damage.

Is that really their sole interest in the thing?  So boring.  You folks have already proven you were framed for stealing it, right?  Why not just lose it and say the actual thief destroyed it or something?  I assume they're either dead already or will be when you find them, so no one's going to be able to contradict that without resorting to some serious magic.  

 

4 hours ago, Cygnia said:

It takes all 20 minutes to agree on where to put the fires.

I seem to say this a lot, but you have my sympathies.

 

Maybe the Wolf will get a TPK and you'll all be free? 

Edited January 19 by Rich McGee

[Cygnia]

FINALLY got back to the 5e D&D game I'm GMing -- at least kinda, sorta.  Had Session Zero 2.0, since it had been so long (plus, last we gamed everyone had just dinged lvl 3), so I wanted to touch base and see if anyone wanted any changes or had questions.  Introduced the concept of knives as a way to give me some personalized plot hooks for each PC and did a quick RP of the (now) beastmaster ranger getting his wolf...

 

...and Real Life reared its ugly head again this week due to health issues with the niece's BF. C'est la vie.

 

****

 

As for the 7th Sea game...*sighs*

 

Well, hubby had a talk with the Noble and Bodyguard PCs.  They think he's asking for "too many unnecessary rolls" (matter of opinion there, but he, Peacekeeper that he is, concedes that point), but that they really don't need to have plots focused on them specifically. OK!  Cool!  Hubby decides he'll give me and Jack some spotlight time.  Sets up a cliffhanger that sees me involved in a duel with a personalized nemesis--

 

--what's that?  Noble & Bodyguard are each sick/have dental issues but it's OK to game without them?  Hubby, why are you postponing the game and--?  Oh yes, you're the Peacekeeper.

 

In this case, I get it.  Real Life trumps all -- but DAMN, it's hard not to feel slighted here.