Asking for help with a group Movement spell

[Black Rose]

Trying to figure out how to cost this build.

 

Here’s the fluff: I turn into swirly mist and send out misty tendrils (of mist!) that can turn anyone nearby I choose into the aforementioned swirly mist, then draws us into a big ol' knot of swirly mist (BOKOSM). Said BOKOSM then flies off to our destination, and we all turn back into ourselves. If I try and pick you but you don’t want to go, you can attempt to avoid it.

 

Crunchy bits: “anyone nearby” is within about 10 meters; “flies off to somewhere” doesn’t need to be Flight (I am currently using Teleport, Must Cross Intervening Space) and is within about 10 km; “try to avoid it” is currently the required defenses for UAA -- Desolid (can't touch you), energy-based Defenses (also can’t touch you) or a flat out DEX or CON roll at -1 (you "dodged" or held yourself together with intestinal fortitude); "Casting Limitations" are Requires A Roll, a fatiguing Side Effect, and Variable Limitations.

 

The build as I have it currently written: Air Vortex: Teleport 10m; MegaRange (1m = 1 km; +1), Usable As Attack (defense is Desolidification, energy-based Defenses, or a DEX or CON roll at -1; +1¼), Usable By Nearby (10m; +1); Casting Limitations (-2), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12); -1¼), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-¼). AP/RC: 42/9

 

Any thoughts?

[dmjalund]

If you have usable as attack, you don't use any of the Usable By advantages, you use Area Affect possibly with the selective modifiers 

[Doc Democracy]

Haven't looked at my books or really thought about this.  I like the idea of it, and as a GM would be looking for ways to make it work.  🙂

 

My first rules as written quibble would be the megascale thing, my understanding is that there is a resolution difficulty - you cannot be particularly precise with it, 10m Teleport with megascale would allow you to be within 1km of where you wanted to be but it would be impossible to guarantee you would land on a specific roof, no?

 

I would also, as GM ask you what the must cross intervening space means.  Is it simply that people can see you as you move (at about 300Km/hr by my reckoning) or could people seek to prevent you getting past or attacking you?

 

Doc

[LoneWolf]

The must pass through intervening space would prevent you from using it to escape places you cannot leave.  That would include bared jail cell or room with a closed door and closed windows.  If you can escape confinement that is not airtight it is more a special effect, or you can reduce the limitation to a -0.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

I don't think that you need usable as an attack, "usable nearby" does what you want unless you wish to compel people to come with you even if they don't want to.

 

Quote

A Usable By Nearby (“UBN”) power is one that the Grantor grants to anyone he wants to grant it to who’s within 4m of himself when he grants it. The Grantor controls the power and pays the END, and all Recipients must remain within 4m of him or lose the power.

 

This is one of those areas where its useful to not build your magic system around a power framework because you could make a little multipower here and let the caster choose the type of distance: nearby or long range.

[Doc Democracy]

5 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

The must pass through intervening space would prevent you from using it to escape places you cannot leave.  That would include bared jail cell or room with a closed door and closed windows.  If you can escape confinement that is not airtight it is more a special effect, or you can reduce the limitation to a -0.  

 

As GM, I always want to make sure me and the player are on the same page with this.  I am content to vary it a little bit depending on context etc, but it is important that we are both aware before a key point in the scenario! 😄

 

 

[Black Rose]

8 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

The must pass through intervening space would prevent you from using it to escape places you cannot leave.  That would include bared jail cell or room with a closed door and closed windows.  If you can escape confinement that is not airtight it is more a special effect, or you can reduce the limitation to a -0.  

Good point. Given the value of is only -1/4, I'd probably change the wording slightly and make it -0.

[Black Rose]

11 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

Haven't looked at my books or really thought about this.  I like the idea of it, and as a GM would be looking for ways to make it work.  🙂

 

My first rules as written quibble would be the megascale thing, my understanding is that there is a resolution difficulty - you cannot be particularly precise with it, 10m Teleport with megascale would allow you to be within 1km of where you wanted to be but it would be impossible to guarantee you would land on a specific roof, no?

 

I would also, as GM ask you what the must cross intervening space means.  Is it simply that people can see you as you move (at about 300Km/hr by my reckoning) or could people seek to prevent you getting past or attacking you?

 

Doc

 

I could be reading the book wrong, but the only real drawback is the MegaRanged action taking a Full Phase (meh) and halving your DCV (annoying, but tolerable).

 

I was using Must Cross Intervening Space in this case to mean you can't get into sealed areas. I figured passing through prison bars and such would make sense -- you're a clump of mist -- but that is a good point that the Limitation as written would not allow that. 

15 hours ago, dmjalund said:

If you have usable as attack, you don't use any of the Usable By advantages, you use Area Affect possibly with the selective modifiers 

 

Oooh, good point! If it's already an attack, making it an Area of Effect covers the rest, especially since it's a one and done effect.

[Doc Democracy]

12 hours ago, Black Rose said:

I could be reading the book wrong, but the only real drawback is the MegaRanged action taking a Full Phase (meh) and halving your DCV (annoying, but tolerable).

 

I went and looked at a book! 🙂 The uncertainty thing may have been a board discussion or perhaps an earlier iteration of the advantage but you are correct, to a point.  Reading the advantage and the power, if yu want to stick to rules as written then there are two wrinkles. 

 

The first is that you can stop at any distance after you have moved the minimum distance. So if you are moving megascale then that first minimum metre of movement equals 1km, that is a minimum distance if you are using that scale of advantage (and may be the source of my earlier confusion).  If you have 10m of 1km megascale teleport you can move to any distance between 1km and 10km.

 

The second wrinkle is that you need to see your destination or you risk missing it.  If you cannot see your destination, you need to make an attack roll on the target hex (DCV 3) at -5 and further modified by range penalties.  If the attack roll fails, you miss the target "by 2m in a random direction for every point the roll is failed by".  I would presume that those would not be megascaled metres! 

 

The second wrinkle, if I was GM, is something that I might not fuly implement (or possibly waive entirely).  The SFX of must pass through intervening space seems to make it redundant (it does not feel like a commons sense application) but I might consider reducing the value of the limitation as it would now be conferring an advantage.  I reckon I might require an attack roll at -5 to make the mode of travel slightly random (the must pass through intervening space means that you would not materialise inside a wall, another advantage).

 

Doc

[LoneWolf]

The must pass through intervening space is mainly about escaping barriers like walls and entangles.  With normal teleport things like walls, or even being in a completely sealed environment does not matter.  It is for things like stopping time and walking to the new location and restarting time. 

 

Under 6th edition rules the character using megascale can define the scale anywhere from 1m = 1m to the maximum distance he purchased.  Anything above 1m = 1m is considered megascale.  The book states that 1.1m  = 1m would still be considered megascale.  That makes it clear you do not have to use the minimum of 1m = 1KM.   You can even change the scale from phase to phase.   The problem with teleport is all the movement takes place in a single phase so that option is not really valid for teleport.

[Doc Democracy]

45 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

The book states that 1.1m  = 1m would still be considered megascale.  That makes it clear you do not have to use the minimum of 1m = 1KM.   You can even change the scale from phase to phase.

 

That does make it more useful, would not significantly change the speed of getting places, though I wonder why anyone would take non combat multiples rather than megascale?

[LoneWolf]

With normal flight and a higher NC multiple you have better combat maneuverability.  Megascale is an advantage so a higher base cost increases the cost more.   At low meters of movement Megascale is fairly cheap, but at a higher value it cost more.    Also megascale is an advantage so increases the END cost where NC move does not.  

 

If all you want to do is get from one location to another megascale is the better way.  If you want to have superior maneuverability in combat, but still be able to get from one location to another fairly quickly increasing the NC multiple works fairly well.  You could of course put the movement in a multipower but that means you end up spending more points because you have to buy both the pool and the slots.  
 

[Doc Democracy]

17 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

With normal flight and a higher NC multiple you have better combat maneuverability.

 

I need to spend more time reading the detail of rulebooks.  What gives 15m Flight with 8x NCM more manoeuvrability than 15m Flight with 1km Megascale?

 

I am asking but also dipping back into the rulebook. 🙂  Being on the boards makes me read detail FAR more than playing the game does!

[Doc Democracy]

Rather than a multiplier, you might find that using a naked advantage, so buy 15m of Flight and a naked advantage applying megascale to 5m of Flight. 

 

Would you allow 8x NCM on that?  Would you allow it to apply when only 5m of megascaled Flight was being used?  Did not notice any explicit prohibition on the combination but my instant instinct is that it doesn't feel right.

[LoneWolf]

15m flight with megascle cost 30 points.  I can buy 20m of flight with a x8 NC for the same 30 points.  Having more meters in flight gives you more maneuverability in combat.  You don’t need increase the NC that much to get a reasonable NC speed.   Megascale will always be better for covering long distance, but a higher base movement gives you better option in combat.  If I am spending more points the speeds scale up appropriately.  At 60 points I can get 30M or megascale flight, or 45 at x16 NC, or 50M at x8.  The megascale flight will allow me to reach anywhere in the world in minutes, the 45M will probably get you across the US in about 20 minutes, where the 50M with x8 will take about twice that.  The extra 20M gives a big advantage in combat.  

 

Someone who wanted more maneuverability in combat would be better off with the 50M with the x8 NC multiplier.  They would still be able to reach most local location quickly.  If the campaign is based around a single city or even a small state that should be good enough. 

[Doc Democracy]

In Combat, we can always sacrifice speed for raw movement. 🙂

 

So, for those 30 points, you can have 20m Flight with 8xNCM, you can have 30m Flight, or you can have 20m Flight with megascale on 10m of that Flight.

 

The question remains, if you have the ability to vary the megascale, is NCM no longer a useful purchase?

 

I am fully bought into the fact that more metres gives you greater manoeuvrability but if you decide to convert some of that into speed, is megasca.e the obvious solution?

[archer]

9 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

In Combat, we can always sacrifice speed for raw movement. 🙂

 

 

Lol...I was thinking:

 

1" Flight then buy Megascale advantages until you spend 30 points.

 

Seems like the total raw distance moved would be...interesting.