Englightenment Fantasy

[Michael Hopcroft]

I get too many ideas. just now I got the idea for a fantasy world that in essentially the Age of enlightenment with magic. And sowrdsmen, instead of weilding mighty greatswords, weidl 'smallswords" and rapiers and gain their deadliness through phenomenal skill.

 

I wonder if fencing would be the proper MA style for them to use, or whether fencing could be given magicla ssists 9drink this potion and gain enough of a DEX bonus for ten turns to raise your CV by two or three, then your DEX goes down by the same amount for the rest of the day as you exhuast yourself), how Enlgihtened wizards would function, whetehr magic would be forced to be sublte of whether more overt effects could be used, and how the world would be affected by those democratic ideas that are so dangerous to tradition-bound societies.

 

I don't know whether this would be re-inevnting 7th Sea, but it could be an interesting (if bizarre) FH campaign. When it's discivered that ligthning is really a form of electricity, for example, how would wizards apply the disocvery?

[tkdguy]

That's a lot like my campaign, which I posted under the thread "The Wronged." The difference is, my campaign doesn't have magic. It does, however, combine rapier-play with kung fu (or rather, a version of it).

 

Fencing is the MA of choice for your PCs. Small swords would fall under the French school (albeit that comes in the last third of the 17th century). The Italian and Spanish schools still use rapiers, if I remember correctly. The English eventually accept the Italian style, although the Masters of Defence may still teach the side sword (use broad sword or short sword stats) depending on time of your campaign.

 

You can also use other MA styles for your players. Ancient boxing, wrestling, and savate (actually called chausson then) would be good choices.

 

As for magic, it depends how it is viewed by the Churches. Religion is still a touchy subject at the time. Perhaps the Catholic Church would want all magicians to be under their control, while the Protestants condemn magic outright. Someone with more expertise in theology could better answer this question.

 

I think it would be better for magic to be subtle rather than flashy, especially if the Churches condemn all magical practices. Also, since the Enlightenment was also a time of scientific progress, magic should be more subtle and low-powered. Potions, charms, and maybe even an enchanted weapon or two would work.

 

I do have a few notes I took while researching the era, mostly on society. Nothing extensive; just some ideas to get the campaign going. PM me if you'd like me to share them.

[assault]

Originally posted by tkdguy

As for magic, it depends how it is viewed by the Churches. Religion is still a touchy subject at the time. Perhaps the Catholic Church would want all magicians to be under their control, while the Protestants condemn magic outright. Someone with more expertise in theology could better answer this question.

 

I think it would be better for magic to be subtle rather than flashy, especially if the Churches condemn all magical practices. Also, since the Enlightenment was also a time of scientific progress, magic should be more subtle and low-powered. Potions, charms, and maybe even an enchanted weapon or two would work.

 

Newton and Boyle were alchemists. Newton wrote more on mysticism than science.

 

I think that you could justify magic being accepted as a branch of science (or vice versa), and becoming accepted. Of course, that would only be true of some forms of magic - others would be vigorously suppressed.

 

I'm having a bit of a Frankenstein moment here.

 

You would probably have different attitudes to magic in different areas. Some would be in "burn the witch" mode, while others would be more liberal.

 

I'm assuming fairly low powered magic, of course. Things would be rather different if wizards spend their time throwing fireballs at people who annoy them.

 

Hmm. The liberal/conservative question would be quite interesting - the more "modern", "enlightened" areas would be the ones tolerating "The Black Arts", while the more conservative ones would be defending the faith. Cue the Inquisition.

 

It sounds like the wars of religion would break out again.

 

Very interesting.

 

Alan

[tkdguy]

I don't know if there would be another religious war. Enlightened thinkers were critical of the Church, among other organizatons. And they were criticized as being anti-Christian in turn.

 

It looks more like a job for the Jesuits, since they were formed to counter the Protestant Refrmation. They were also used to counter the "heretical" ideas of the Enlightened scholars. That's why Voltaire once half-jokingly commented, "Let's eat a Jesuit."

 

As for magic being part of science, I can see that. Alchemy was considered a science then, even if we see alchemists more as magicians. And while Newton indeed studied mysticism, he also made great strides in physics, astronomy, and mathematics. Please, let's not debate on who (Newton or Leibnitz) developed calculus first!

[assault]

Originally posted by tkdguy

I don't know if there would be another religious war. Enlightened thinkers were critical of the Church, among other organizatons. And they were criticized as being anti-Christian in turn.

 

True. Still, they were a whole different thing from open practice of the Black Arts.

 

Remember, the general social context was still very conservative. Serfdom and all kinds of feudal stuff like that was still widespread in Europe.

 

I can see two sets of responses. One would be an "arms race" approach, with every nation forming its own Royal Society type college of wizards. On the other hand, other states would get very heavy about the practice of magic, and try and lean on its users.

 

Of course, a lot of the "usual suspects" for the second response were has-beens by the late 17th/18th century, but there were still powers like Russia hanging about to act as muscle for the Holy Alliance.

 

Alan

[AnotherSkip]

you might want to review the supression ideas.

 

though supression did occur it might not have been as monolithic as it is presented.

 

Rusalka by CJ Cherryth is an excellent example.

and there are many examples of Christianised Sorcerors in earlier periods that until Science and Church united it was more likely to be the Church and Sorcerors against the heresy of Science than anything else.

[assault]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

and there are many examples of Christianised Sorcerors in earlier periods that until Science and Church united it was more likely to be the Church and Sorcerors against the heresy of Science than anything else.

 

OK, yes, there were Christianised Sorcerors in earlier periods, at times with nobler or royal patrons. That's a vote for the "arms race" approach.

 

On the other hand, there is a bit of a difference between discreet and open support. The significance of the formation of the Royal Society in England was that the Alchemists were state sanctioned and able to function openly. That is, they went from being secretive, underground magicians to above ground scientists. Same people, same beliefs, but able to practice in public.

 

This was a product of the English Revolution. A lot of the old medieval leftovers had been swept away, there had been an explosive burst of intellectual ferment, and at the end of it (after the conservative backlash!), you got the emergence of systematic modern science.

 

Yes, there were scientists before - but now they were authorised, organised and state supported. And Britain began to rule the waves...

 

What I have been suggesting is that in an fantasy enlightenment, the alchemists are actual wizards, with real magic, not just the belief in it. Then you get science and sorcery inextricably intertwined, and emerging into the light together.

 

Would you get sorcerors opposing this? Well, yes, actually. Some would prefer to maintain a monopoly of magical power amongst an elite circle (a circle of one, preferably - themselves!) They might act against those who want to offer magic to anyone with the inclination.

 

Eww. I just had a Harry Potter moment.

 

I can think of a few game supplements that have covered some relevant material. The most obvious is the old ICE Pirates supplement from their Campaign Classics series. This had first edition Fantasy Hero stats. There was a 2nd Ed. AD&D book called "A Mighty Fortress", which was about the wars of religion in the 16th and 17th centuries. That at least would give you some handy hints, particularly about the more backward areas. The Enlightenment wasn't uniform by any stretch of the imagination. And there are also sundry GURPS books.

 

And then you get into history texts...

 

Alan

[tkdguy]

I also recommend GURPS Swashbucklers if you can find a copy. And the Castle Falkenstein RPG has some interesting orders of wizards. You may need to change the history of some of them, though.

 

I don't have FH Grimoire just yet. But that would probably have something for your campaign.

[Markdoc]

There's two possible approaches you could take here: if you want to use the European enlightenment as a background, then I would suggest keeping magic relatively low-powered and/or difficult - in that case, it becomes a suitable topic for research by the leading minds of the day. The church's position (whether Protestant or Catholic) is probably fairly negative, but there were dissenters in both camps (for example, book and magician-burning Inquisitors acting under royal writ in Spain, book-writing, magic-studying dissidents operating under royal protecion in Paris). You can essentially use the real historical model, since people at the time DID believe magic worked - so we know how they would have behaved if it actually did.

 

On the other hand, if magic is reasonably reliable and powerful (fireballs and so on) then Europe is unlikely to have evolved in a way as to give anything approaching the historical pattern - there may not even be a Christian church. In that approach you could either use the European model and just alter history as you see fit, or use an enlightenment-style setting in a world of your own design (there are appealinga spects of either approach).

 

Anyway, of more practical use:

1) Yes, fencing as a martial art is certainly appropriate

2) I would recommend reading:

The Dragon Waiting: A Masque of History by John M. Ford. It's a bit earlier than the period you discuss but the atmosphere of "magic as science" would probably be exactly right.

3) See "La pacte des Loupes" - slightly later than the period you want, but hey, who can resist a period drama kung fu monster movie? As Mike Surbrook stated, it's an under-rated genre It also has a nice feel for magic/enlightenment cross-over

4) Check out the late medieval/renaissance-era magic system I wrote up here:

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Grimoire/magic_systems.htm#Medieval%20Magic

It might be of use to you.

 

cheers, Mark

[Killer Shrike]

You might want to check out Dave Duncan's King's Blades series. It has a basic premise similar to what you propose.

[tkdguy]

Here's my recommended reading list:

 

The Book of the Sword by Sir Richard F. Burton.

 

Old Sword Play: Techniques of the Great Masters by Capt. Alfred Hutton.

 

The Secret Hisory of the Sword by J. Christoph Amberger.

 

By the Sword by Richard Cohen.

 

Schools and Masters of Fencing from the Middle Ages to the Eighteenth Century by Egerton Castle.

 

And if you can find this out-of-print book:

 

Savate by Bruce Tegner. Just in case you want some unarmed styles in your game.

[PhilFleischmann]

I think you're overlooking an interesting possibility here: If alchemy and other forms of magic are real, why not let the church have its own type of divine magic as well? Let the priests actually lay on hands to heal wounds and cure deseases, receive prophetic visions, exorcise demons, turn undead, etc. This adds some balance of power between the church and the wizards. They may even have some magic which renders them immune to non-religious magic. If you're a peasant, who are you going to support: the guy who can transmute metals, or the guy who can restore your health?

 

Many of the early alchemists were in fact Christians. They wanted to create gold so they wouldn't have to go to war and kill others for it. A good and peaceful idea. Unfortunately, they didn't study economics enough to realise that gold would lose value if it could be easily created.

 

This idea reminds me of a campaign I've been wanting to run for a long time: a modern fantasy campaign in which all the myths, folktales and superstitions are real. The idea is partially based on a short story I read in Dragon many years ago called "Wear Wolf". Werewolves and Vampires are real. Christians can keep vampires at bay with a cross. Jews are immune to vampirism and their blood is poisonous to a vampire. Muslims remain in complete control of their mental faculties if and when they become werewolves. Etc. All real religions have real "magical" properties.

[tkdguy]

How about having a few magic systems in the world:

 

1. Priestly magic (PhilFleischmann's idea). It's based on faith. Of course, given the religious intolerance of the era, most people would consider miracle workers not of their faith to be "the devil's disciple," while the of their own clergymen "comes from God." The Enlightened thinkers may challenge this idea.

 

2. Alchemy (assault's idea). Various potions would be created as medicines or other products, such as rust removers or potions of youth (pardon the cliche).

 

3. Enchantment. Craftsmen could endow the items they create with a magical ability or two.

 

4. Divination. Seers, astrologers, and others would be able to predict the future with some accuracy.

 

5. Hedge Magic. Everyone knows a charm or two. It's often used to ward off evil, heal the sick, or make someone fall in love with you.

 

Markdoc has the right idea about keeping the power level relatively low and making magic somewhat unreliable as well. That would encourage technological progress. Perhaps the effects are very subtle as well. The enchanted smallsword isn't considered to be magical; it's justknown to be very well-balanced (+1 OCV) and extremely sharp (+2 DC). The silver urn that has been a family heirloom for three generations never seems to tarnish (Change Environment, maybe?). The priest's healing spell could come in the form of a prayer or blessing.

 

Even with just those five types, that's plenty of magic already.

[Farkling]

Gregory Keyes Quadrology on the "Age of Unreason" gives some interesting views of "alchaemical magicks and their impact apon a Renaissance society"

 

The first book is Newton's Cannon.

 

The world of Einarr (Thief's Gamble, Swordsman's Oath) has conflicting magics in it. When they recover the lost colony of the Empire, the Church and the Archmage both need to contend with the "rediscovery" of the lost magics of Aether (mind affecting). Especially when it begins to become known that the old magics supported the priesthood and kept them honest in the old days.

[tkdguy]

A few examples

 

Here are some spells and items with subtle magical powers:

 

Amulet of Protection

 

Michelle hurried on the way back from the market. She never enjoyed going to that part of town; there were too many scoundrels in that area. But her lady wanted strawberries and cream for dessert tonight, so she had no choice but to head to market. She was thankful she wore her medallion of St. Michael; she always felt the archangel was protecting her in times of trouble.

 

As she walked past the stalls, a group of young urchins threw stones at her. She somehow managed to dodge every projectile aimed at her. She chuckled as angry merchants chased the scoundrels away, but she inwardly shuddered and silently muttered a prayer of thanks to St. Michael.

 

Power: +3 DCV. Active Cost: 15. Limitations: IAF Necklace (-1/2). Real Cost: 10

 

 

“Unbreakable†Glass

 

Sir Charles Radcliff reached for his wine glass as he paused in his studies. He accidentally knocked it over, sending it straight onto the bare floor. He cursed as the wine spilled all over the floor, but he noticed the glass had miraculously survived the fall unscathed.

 

Power: Armor, 2 PD. Advantages: Hardened (+1/4). Active Cost: 4. Real Cost: 4.

 

 

Laying of Hands.

 

Father Etienne gently placed his hands on the dying man’s brow and prayed for his soul. He beseeched God to let him survive the sickness if it was His divine will, and to forgive his sins and bring him to Heaven if not. As Father Etienne prayed, the man’s fever broke. He would be bedridden for a while, but he would live. The parish priest thanked God for his mercy.

 

Power: 1d6 Healing. Active Cost: 10. Limitations: Extra Time: 1 minute (-1½), Gestures: laying of hands; constant, needs both hands (-3/4), Incantations, constant (-1/2). Real Cost: 3.

 

 

Warriors’ Drink

 

Robert Buchanan was a prize fighter known for fighting like a demon. His opponents often complained that he seemed to try to kill them. Perhaps it was because of the dram of whiskey he always took to bolster his courage before the fight.

 

Power: Aid STR 3d6. Active Cost: 30. Limitations: 1 Charge (-2), Gestures: drink whiskey (-1/4), Side Effects: Enraged 14- whenever going into combat, recover 8-; character is enraged whenever the Aid takes effect (-1). Real Cost: 7.