Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 350 pt character. I don't care what the Disads are... 230 4398046511104 x 100 point exact Duplicates 12 +1 STR, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 12 1/1 Damage Resistance, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 37 +1 DEX, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 CON, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 EGO, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 BODY, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 5 Life Support: Immortality - 5 STR 5/4398046511109 - 6 DEX 8/4398046511112 -10 CON 5/4398046511109 -12 BOD 4/4398046511108 8 INT 18 - 4 EGO 8/4398046511112 - 2 PRE 8 - 1 COM 8 0 PD 1/879609302222 0 ED 1/879609302222 2 SPD 2/12 0 REC 2/175921860444 0 END 10/879609302218 0 STN 10/879609302218 === -30 Skills, Miscellaneous = 9 Hmm. Mommy, I think I broke something. Any one of them would be well nigh impossible to defeat... together? Version 1.0 of THE ULTIMATE 350pt Super! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Am I reading this correctly? Is that over 700x the current population of our planet? Or am I misreading what is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Blue Am I reading this correctly? Is that over 700x the current population of our planet? Or am I misreading what is there. You're reading correctly. Some of the math may be off. Anyway. They can survive in space or a volcano on the grounds that any one of them has much more BODY than a planet. They then regenerate any damage done due to REC taken to a level that scares me. They can blow up planets by punching them. Heck, they should be able to punch out stars. They can survive hunger for, er, millenia? Caution: Numbers may not be completely accurate on the figured stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Okay, that kept me laughing for about a good solid 5 minutes. I've always said that sure there are loopholes in Hero, but I can't think of anything THAT egregious... I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Hey, you're talking to a guy who once built a 232 Damage Class nuclear bomb on 1 real point. That character is easy to deal with if anything goes. Suppose it's an arena type setting where they're on a huge planet large enough to fit all of them. Here are just a few ways of dealing with them off the top of my head. 1) Take a 9 dex person with 1" superleap usable as attack (defense is growth, density or knockback resistance), area effect, enough megascale area to cover the planet, and megascale 1"= 1000 km. I go first, and I send all of you into space in the first shot. 2) Have a simple darkness field with a few inches of radius and flight. Any of your people caught in the darkness field lose all their stats since they lose LOS. It may take awhile to kill all of them, but they can't do squat to me. 3) A flash with enough megascale to cover the planet will deny all of them LOS. They're all back to being 98 pound weaklings and are easy to kill. 4) A big presence attack with enough megascale to cover the planet. All of them have 8 Pre, and will wet themselves. (I wonder how much urine and feces that would produce?) 5) Simple invisibility and flight will allow as many attacks as I want with impunity. All I have to do is to blind the target just before attacking. Or images, or darkness, or etc. You get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I wouldn't allow this.For one thing,the hero's Primary and Figured Characteristics (excepting INT,PRE & COM) are all built Usable By Others,and are assumed to be additive,so that in conjunction with the character's BILLIONS of duplicartes,the hero's Primary and Figured Characteristics reach literally astronomic levels (As does the character's Damage Resistance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Without being quite so greedy you could have this.. Broken Duplicator Player: Crazy Person GM: Crazier Val Char Cost 10 STR 0 10 DEX 0 10 CON 0 10 BODY 0 20 INT 10 10 EGO 0 20 PRE 10 20 COM 5 2/3 PD 0 2/3 ED 0 2 SPD 0 4 REC 0 20 END 0 20 STUN 0 6" RUN02" SWIM02" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 25 Cost Power END 5 +1 STR, Ranged (+1/2), Based on ECV (+1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (5 Active Points) 1 14 +1 DEX, Ranged (+1/2), Based on ECV (+1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (14 Active Points) 9 +1 CON, Ranged (+1/2), Based on ECV (+1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (9 Active Points) 9 +1 BODY, Ranged (+1/2), Based on ECV (+1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (9 Active Points) 9 +1 EGO, Ranged (+1/2), Based on ECV (+1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (9 Active Points) 14 Armor (1 PD/1 ED), Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense; +1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (14 Active Points) 5 Flash Defense (Sight Group), Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense; +1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (5 Active Points) 5 Power Defense (1 points), Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense; +1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (5 Active Points) 12 +1 Mental Defense (3 points total), Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense; +1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (12 Active Points) 5 Lack Of Weakness (-1) for Resistant Defenses, Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense; +1), Usable Simultaneously (x128 Number of Targets +2 1/4) (5 Active Points) 5 Life Support , Longevity: Immortal 45 Flight 15", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points) 71 Duplication (creates 90 177-point Duplicates) Powers Cost: 208 Cost Skill 3 Scientist 2 1) SS: Biology (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 2) SS: Chemistry (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 3) SS: Genetics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 4) SS: Superhuman Physiology (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 5) SS: Neurology (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 6) SS: Psionic Biology (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- Skills Cost: 15 Total Character Cost: 248 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 48 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0 Giving you.... 100 STR, DEX, CON, BODY & EGO 120/100 PD & ED 11 SPD 40 REC 200 END 200 STUN 100 Power Defense, Flash Defense, Lack of Weakness 120 Mental Defense and all for UNDER 250 points, quite a bargain for what comes out to a single 1500 point character in real points. Don't forget there are NINETY-ONE of these guys to deal with! Pure sickness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Gary Hey, you're talking to a guy who once built a 232 Damage Class nuclear bomb on 1 real point. That character is easy to deal with if anything goes. Suppose it's an arena type setting where they're on a huge planet large enough to fit all of them. Not quite as easy as you might think. They also get scads of superleap, SPD 12, and DEX OMG! Originally posted by Gary Here are just a few ways of dealing with them off the top of my head. 1) Take a 9 dex person with 1" superleap usable as attack (defense is growth, density or knockback resistance), area effect, enough megascale area to cover the planet, and megascale 1"= 1000 km. I go first, and I send all of you into space in the first shot. A) They're DEX I don't want to know. Note the Huge BODY and REC. They can survive Outer Space indefinately. [/b] Originally posted by Gary 2) Have a simple darkness field with a few inches of radius and flight. Any of your people caught in the darkness field lose all their stats since they lose LOS. It may take awhile to kill all of them, but they can't do squat to me. Oops. Just noticed that I took out the Mind Link. Forget those silly skills... Originally posted by Gary 3) A flash with enough megascale to cover the planet will deny all of them LOS. They're all back to being 98 pound weaklings and are easy to kill. Again, oops. Originally posted by Gary 4) A big presence attack with enough megascale to cover the planet. All of them have 8 Pre, and will wet themselves. (I wonder how much urine and feces that would produce?) They have EGO, er, ah... Not quite sure. Something stupid. Isn't EGO the *other* defense? Originally posted by Gary 5) Simple invisibility and flight will allow as many attacks as I want with impunity. All I have to do is to blind the target just before attacking. Or images, or darkness, or etc. You get the idea. Oh, and ALL of them? 1 of them should be able to beat up on Superman... once that stupid Mind Link thing is fixed (and inherent...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Oh, and here's the modified, Super^10000 ManMan. 350 pt character. I don't care what the Disads are... 4 Mindlink: Duplicate Prime, Inherent, Always On 230 4398046511104 x 100 point exact Duplicates 12 +1 STR, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 12 1/1 Damage Resistance, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 37 +1 DEX, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 CON, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 EGO, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 BODY, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 5 Life Support: Immortality - 5 STR 5/4398046511109 - 6 DEX 8/4398046511112 -10 CON 5/4398046511109 -12 BOD 4/4398046511108 8 INT 18 - 4 EGO 8/4398046511112 - 2 PRE 8 - 1 COM 8 0 PD 1/879609302222 0 ED 1/879609302222 2 SPD 2/12 0 REC 2/175921860444 0 END 10/879609302218 0 STN 10/879609302218 === -30 5 Deduction 14- = 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Oh, and I call them... The Nerdloids. A race of geeks, transformed into one being... sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I'd allow it, but the player wouldn't like me very much afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by D-Man I'd allow it, but the player wouldn't like me very much afterwards. Out of morbid curiousity... why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Out of morbid curiousity... why? .... or is this one of those thing I really, really, don't want to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Out of morbid curiousity... why? Because duplicates are "independent" and I'm a ruthless SOB when it comes to people whose rules abuse is blatant. I would simply develop an equally rules abusive method of killing ALL the duplicates and then smile at the player and say: "your dink-fu is weak scumsucker, now get out." /of course, none of my players would dream of trying something this stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 If only because it would be nearly impossible to justify having such an abusive set of powers in any universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 The obvious way to defeat/harm them are : 1) Hit them with a mindlink Dispell/Drain/Supression bought AoE to a large enough radius to contain them all. No mind link, no sharing of powers. Then go on a killin' spree. 2) Hit them with a Life Support Drain/Supression, bought to a large enough radius to contain them all. Then just wait them out. 3) Drop a "Mirror of Opposition" onto their planet. It may not kill them all off, but there will be considerably fewer duplicates left when its all over. Mirror of Opposition : 33 (200) Summon - up to a 350 point "creature" ________(+1/4) Trigger - When someone looks in the mirror ________(+1/2) Reduced End Cost - 0 END ________(+1/4) Limited class of summons, only to duplicate viewers ________(-1) OAF - Mirror (Indestructible) ________(-4) Increased END cost 10x (200 E) ________(-0) Summoned Creature is implacably hostile to its "original" 10 (20) END Reserve for Mirror (200 END) ________(-1) OAF - Mirror (Indestructible) 1 (1) REC for Mirror Reserve 1/turn ________(-1) OAF - Immobile (something not anywhere near the multi-man planet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 All my original scenarios for killing them off still apply. Simply add the mental sense group to the sight sense group to Darkness, and these puppies are easy meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Oh, and here's the modified, Super^10000 ManMan. 350 pt character. I don't care what the Disads are... 4 Mindlink: Duplicate Prime, Inherent, Always On 230 4398046511104 x 100 point exact Duplicates 12 +1 STR, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 12 1/1 Damage Resistance, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 37 +1 DEX, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 CON, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 EGO, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 25 +1 BODY, Usable by Self and 4398046511104 others, at Range, Based on Ego Combat Value (+12.5) 5 Life Support: Immortality - 5 STR 5/4398046511109 - 6 DEX 8/4398046511112 -10 CON 5/4398046511109 -12 BOD 4/4398046511108 8 INT 18 - 4 EGO 8/4398046511112 - 2 PRE 8 - 1 COM 8 0 PD 1/879609302222 0 ED 1/879609302222 2 SPD 2/12 0 REC 2/175921860444 0 END 10/879609302218 0 STN 10/879609302218 === -30 5 Deduction 14- = 5 Humm. No power defense. Supress duplication, megascale AOE. Or dispel mind link. Or megascale selective AOE, NND vs Self contained breathing. You don't get that hideous REC if you can't breath. Add Does body, make it 0 END and persistant, and get comfortable. [edit] OTOH Gary has a good point about presence attacks. Don't use them a lot in my game (Imagine an NPC with 10 DEX, 2 SPD, no effective attack, some armor and 150 PRE. "Surrender, Xtreme Justice!" PC's: "Uh, OK." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Abusiveness...well, how about (some have seen this concept before): +20 EGO 40 points 1d6 Mind Scan, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 16 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points +20 OCV Mind Scan 40 points 1d6 Mind Control, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 64 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points 1d6 Telepathy, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 64 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points 1d6 Mental Illusions, Triple Penetrating (+1 1/2); 0 END (+1/2), 0 END on resisting lowering of the breakout roll (+1/2) Cumulative (+1/2), x 64 maximum (+1 1/2; 384 max), Invisible Power Effects (power and effects are invisible; +1); Continuous (+1) 40 Points +30 Mental Defense for 30 points (probably not needed - after all, you can't tell he's mind scanning you). That's 270 points. We can use the other 80 for any number of other things, but let's hold them in reserve for flaws. They can always be used for Speed, ruler of a country or some other benefit. Probably "need not sleep". Note that he could be a lot more efficient if all mental powers but Mind Scan went in a multipower (but then he can't MPA!), or his abilities took a full phase (but he needs the other 1/2 phase to sip his drink), or had some other limitations. But this will work for now. hmmm...he could save 32 points by taking "Does not provide mental awareness; -1/4, and spend 3 on mental awareness - does anyone actually allow that limitation? So what does he do? Well, he sits on a tropical beach sipping his margarita and scans for his target (30 OECV - 20 for Whole Planet = 10). Once he finds him, he applies 1-6 points of effect every phase (0-2 if the target has mental defenses) until he has +100 (can attack; undetectable by target for good measure; with -10 to the breakout roll. On a target with 80 Ego, this requires 180 points of effect (280 to make the breakout roll -20; 380 makes it -30). Of course it requires 11 minutes (at 2 speed) to get that kind of effect, 38 minutes if the target has mental defenses. Less time for lower egos, of course, and we can live with a lower breakout penalty. Then he applies his telepathy, mind control and/or mental illusions to the same level of effect (combined, this takes over an hour on Menton...), making the target his puppet. Anyone invisible to Mind Scan avoids him, but we can always get someone else to go after him. After all, we've got time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Gary 1) Take a 9 dex person with 1" superleap usable as attack (defense is growth, density or knockback resistance), area effect, enough megascale area to cover the planet, and megascale 1"= 1000 km. I go first, and I send all of you into space in the first shot. Gary, I'd have bought Personal Immunity on that too... Whamme whamme...why not make your Duplicates "Unable to Recombine" and use the extra points for more duplicates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I thought the target of an IPE attack was always aware of it (if he was getting hit by it anyway) Did they change this in 5Ed? Aslo... IPE for mental attacks is only +1/2, as they are normally only visible to mental sense, rather than 3 sense groups like most other attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Outsider I thought the target of an IPE attack was always aware of it (if he was getting hit by it anyway) Did they change this in 5Ed? Aslo... IPE for mental attacks is only +1/2, as they are normally only visible to mental sense, rather than 3 sense groups like most other attacks. BOth these come down to Invisible Power Effects. A mental attack has to buy +1/2 to eliminate mental sense group (why it's not -1/4 I don't know, but fair enough). You can also make the effects invisible by doubling the cost, which is what enables making the target unaware he's been struck. Even if he weren't, breakout rolls don't start until the Cumulative power has its effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 So I can make a killling attack that the target, and everyone else, is unaware that he is getting hit with until he keels over dead? I don't think I like that change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Note the Huge BODY and REC. They can survive Outer Space indefinately. No Life Support vs. Vacuum. You can't take Recoveries when you can't breathe, not even Post-12. If you lowered your Speed to 2 and took no other actions, you could hold your breath for just over 167353 years before you started burning STUN. Lack of pressure would also inflict 1/2d6 Normal NND, Does BODY, each Segment. So that's an average of 12 BODY and 24 STUN each Turn...which would kill you in 1394611 years. The STUN damage from the lack of pressure would render you unconscious and burning BODY in 13946 years. You'd also lose END from your body's inability to properly radiate heat, but only 4 END every 20 minutes if you took no actions, increasing by 4 END every 20 minutes. So after a year, you'd be burning over 100000 END every 20 minutes, 200000 every 20 minutes after 2 years, etc. You could live a long time in a vacuum, if you just floated doing absolutely nothing, but not indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Outsider So I can make a killling attack that the target, and everyone else, is unaware that he is getting hit with until he keels over dead? I don't think I like that change. Only observers can't tell an attack is taking place. The target still feels himself taking damage. H5, p. 169 "The victim still feels the effects of the Power, but other characters will not perceive them." "The victim will know he's taking damage, and will feel terrible pain, but observers will not see any burns, bruises, injuries, or other signs that he has been attacked." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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