calculating MANA costs

[Vorvodoss]

Hey all. I am using a Mana system for my magic. Basically, it's the one discussed in FH (Mana is just like END only it's EGO/3 and recovers slower). However, I'm having a hard time calculating the mana cost per spell/power.

 

For example, I have Mage Armor which has an active cost of 12, real cost of 4. What should the mana cost be?

 

In a related issue, does anyone know how to make the spell only useable on the caster himself and program this in Hero Designer? Do I need to make a custom modifier? Thanks.

[Snarf]

Re: calculating MANA costs

 

Originally posted by Vorvodoss

In a related issue, does anyone know how to make the spell only useable on the caster himself and program this in Hero Designer? Do I need to make a custom modifier?

I don't know how to design spells, but you're probably thinking of the -1/2 Self-Only limitation.

[Vorvodoss]

Thanks for pointing me at the right Limitation. However, HD says that I can't use that modifier because it "can only be applied to abilities of type adjustment". What does this mean?

[Guest zarglif69]

It means that "self only" is a limitation associated with adjustment powers. just don't apply UBO to it, and thus it will only be usable on self.

[Vorvodoss]

Ah, another acronym I don't know. :-)

 

What's UBO?

[Snarf]

It's probably talking about the power type of "Adjustment Powers" which you can read about at the beginning of the powers section of your Fifth Edition book. Self Only is used for beneficial adjustment powers that could be used to help others like Aid or Healing.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that a lot of powers are already usable only on the caster by default. You actually have to apply advantages to turn certain powers into spells you can use to help others.

 

For instance, the armor power is something the caster can only protect himself with by default , since armor is more often used to simulate a suit of armor or super tough skin. If you want the option to magically give other people armor, you need to put the Usable By Other advantage on it.

 

For your Mage Armor spell, assuming you've made it with the Armor power, you could just leave it alone and it would work how you want.

[Snarf]

Geez lay off the acronyms people

 

Have mercy on the new player.

[Vorvodoss]

Originally posted by Snarf

Geez lay off the acronyms people

 

Have mercy on the new player.

 

Thanks! LOL. Everytime someone uses an acronym I'm scrambling for FREd!

 

Thanks for the info on my Mage Armor spell. It came out with a 12 Active Cost and a 4 Real Cost giving the PC a +4 enhancement on both PD and ED. It's the first thing I've built totall from scratch with HERO (though I'm sure it's not that original).

[Old Man]

There's really not a whole lot of ways to build defenses in Fantasy Hero. Damage Reduction and Force Wall are expensive, and armor/forcefield/damage resistance are all essentially the same thing. It's the advantages and limitations that make Fantasy Hero spells exotic.

[Legendsmiths]

EGO/3 seems very low and will be challenging to find appropriate costs for spells.

 

There is a standard variant for "mages":

 

MANA = EGO*2, cost 1/2

MANA RECOVERY = EGO/5 + INT/5, cost 2

 

This makes it virtually identical to END and so you can use the standard 10 Active Points/MANA, as well as reduced END advantages or increased END limitations. It keeps the system "in tact" but makes mages no longer dependent on STR & CON.

 

Does that help?

[Snarf]

Originally posted by mudpyr8

EGO/3 seems very low and will be challenging to find appropriate costs for spells.

 

There is a standard variant for "mages":

 

MANA = EGO*2, cost 1/2

MANA RECOVERY = EGO/5 + INT/5, cost 2

 

This makes it virtually identical to END and so you can use the standard 10 Active Points/MANA, as well as reduced END advantages or increased END limitations. It keeps the system "in tact" but makes mages no longer dependent on STR & CON.

 

Does that help?

That's fine if you want them throwing around spells like superheroes, but beginner fantasy wizards are supposed to be limited to a couple spells a day.

[Legendsmiths]

That really depends on what you are trying to model. I would argue that when a normal commoner is 25 points, a 150 pt mage is far from a beginner.

 

If then you plan to start your campaign at the competent level (50-75 pt characters), they will be limited in the power of the spells, but not the frequency (since weaker spells use less MANA).

 

There are lots of things you can do to slow down the number of spells. Make MANA RECOVERY per hour, instead of like normal REC. That limits it right there.

 

You might throw in some kind of long term cost, like "cast the spell more than once per minute and each subsequent casting is LONG TERM MANA".

 

By virtue of allowing these powers in the game beyond the mundane abilities of everyone else you kind of have license to make the system whatever you want. Since he was talking about making a stat based on EGO/3, I assume V. already had some "rulez bendin'" in mind.

 

Very easily you can also require all spells to cost x2 END or anything like that.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Vorvodoss

Ah, another acronym I don't know. :-)

 

What's UBO?

 

Most likely "Usable By Others," as in an Advantage to allow an ability that a character can normally apply only to himself, to apply to others as well.

 

If that's the case zarglif69 actually made a small error, since the Advantage is called "Usable On Others" in 5E, so the acronym should be "UOO."

[John Desmarais]

Originally posted by Snarf

That's fine if you want them throwing around spells like superheroes, but beginner fantasy wizards are supposed to be limited to a couple spells a day.

 

Just a few thoughts...

 

MANA = EGO*2, cost 1/2

MANA RECOVERY = EGO/5 + INT/5, cost 2

 

Assume the mage is a very focused character, EGO and INT both 20. This (assuming no additional points purchased) gives 40 Mana, witha Mana Rec of 8. With a SPD of less than 4, your mage could pop off mid to moderate power spells all day without breaking a sweat.

 

If you really want to slow things down a bit, simply declare that Mana Recovery operates on a Per Day basis instead of a Per Turn basis. Now (assuming no additional points purchased) your mage has 40 Mana to play with, and will recover 8 per day (double this is the mage specifically takes "a day of rest"). No superhero-like spell flinging here.

 

Personally, I would also consider taking INT out of the equation and use CON instead in the Recovery formula (EDO/5 + CON/5) - but this only makes a vert slight difference. CON is not usually a priority stat for mages, so if we assume a CON of 10, then the mage has a Mana Rec of 6.

 

John Desmarais

[Legendsmiths]

Just trying to keep it in line with END which has a 2 pt stat and a 1 pt stat. PRE would be another choice.

 

I agree with John that playing with REC works very well. It provides a large pool of MANA to work with, but you don't get it back quickly.

 

If you run out of MANA, you can get 2 per 1d6 STUN you take, just like END, which makes things REALLY exciting. Especially if you treat it like the dice of bleeding and every 6 = 1 pt of BODY.

 

As for 20 EGO and 20 INT, I generally don't play in that level of game. That's 30 points right there. For 150 pt characters that works, but 75 pt characters can't afford such luxuries.

[Old Man]

For a bit of thought, think about how often you want your wizards or whatever casting their spells. If you want them to fire off spells like a hero in an action movie, give it a low mana cost. If you only want them to cast a few spells a day increase the mana cost.

 

Try making a character and do a mental walkthrough of various scenarios so give you an idea of how drained you want the character to be.

[The_Saint]

Generally-I prefer to stay in system-meaning i do not use mana based on ego.To me,the question arises wether ego and int should not have higher costs,for these stats have a higher game impact.I use esentially an end reserve as a mana pool with approriate limitations.

[Legendsmiths]

To each his own. I think the MANA stat is a good way of addressing how spells get there energy in a way that is as in system as anything else. I find END reserves to be far too cheap to be interesting.

 

EGO and INT I think I priced just fine. The stat as presented uses the exact same construct as END, but using alternate, although identically priced, base stats.

 

Since you have brought up the END reserve solution, how do you price it? How do you prevent someone from getting 100 END? If you limit them to say 40 points, how is that even worthwhile? 40 points only costs 4 points, assuming no limitations. Ignoring drain or suppress against END reserve, assuming you prohibit such powers, what are you accomplishing by using the reserve? What is the "feel" of the magic system?

[AlHazred]

To get back on topic, are you using the Dungeons and Dragons magic system as inspiration for spells? There are some really good conversions around (Hierax's and Killer Shrike's come to mind). Just read "MANA Cost" where it says "END Cost" and you're golden.

[Vorvodoss]

I do use DnD as inspiration for some spells (Mage Armor and Magic Missile come to mind as well as Knock and Dispel Magic). Magic Missile is, of course, just an EB that always hits its target but can only be stopped by a force field. Mage Armor is just an Armor power, etc.

 

I use MANA and MREC for my system now. The thought is not so much for the sake of numbers but more for story and campaign flair. See, in my campaign wizards use a completely different energy to cast their spells than END. This suggests that they can cast spells without getting physically tired while still running the risk of exhausting their ability to cast spells. MREC is the wizard's ability to relax his mind and will and allow more energy to flood into this body. It has nothing to do with his CON. So, creating a new stat was necassary. Also, it makes wizards spend more points on their figured characteristics instead of buying more and more spells, therefore limiting a wizard's power in comparison to more fighting oriented professions.

 

Just read "MANA Cost" where it says "END Cost" and you're golden.

This raised a point for me. It's nice to have an actual stat on the character sheet that says MANA and MREC so the character doesn't have to write it in with pencil. It's just one of those little things that players like to see, I think.

[The_Saint]

Well ,it is actually about 8 Points,for you have to pay for the reserve and the rec.And 8 Points are 8 Points.The End.Res. is personal one,and as such very close associated with Personal End,meaning-you have the same Max.Values for the End.Reserve as for normal End(50).After that,cost values are doubled but no one can have more than 100 End.Considering the Active Cost of most spells,that is not too high.