HOUSE RULES: Fixing the stun Lottary

[Gary]

Originally posted by Vanderbilt_Grad

I know. I just figured that since you were invoked as 'the man' ... well....

 

 

I can give you the chance of Con Stunning any given target for any given Def and Con level, if you want.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Upon further reflection, I think the Hero System KA Stun multiples work just fine as is. The randomization is a bit irritating to an old wargamer like me, but it actually simulates the wildly disparate results of real world shootings fairly well. If some players (or GMs) are buying KAs simply due to the possible combat advantage from Killing Attacks' Stun Multiple and not due to character concept then that's poor GMing and a manifest failure to enforce genre. It's incorrect to blame the game system for a failure of the system's users. Don't blame the gun, blame the gunman.

 

Very few superheroes have or use Killing Attacks. Killing attacks would of course be the norm in fantasy, Dark Champions or action genres such as espionage or pulp adventure. Those genres are more "realistic" and hence swords, guns and knives are going to be much more common than in four-color comics.

 

I was actually heading in your direction moreso until this. I was for/have been using the regular stun lottery, but am starting to realize how with the very high-end heroes it may be too dangerous. For me the jury is out. I'm thinking of going towards capping at x4, which seems to work well, with the x5 result still counting as x4. It does flatten the stun results a bit and beg back the regular stun attacks, but that isn't so bad an effect, either.

[Trebuchet]

Given that I was the only one of the GMs in our group seemingly to even have questions about the 1-5 Stun Multiplier, and even I didn't have any real idea of what I wanted to change anyway, I think we'll stick with the Multiple as is. Only one member of our PC team even has a Killing Attack, and he has a Total Code vs Killing (A 3d6+1 Penetrating RKA vs ED defined as a focused teleport, it's designed to smash machines. Does it pretty well, too.)

 

When I build villains with Killing Attacks I often buy down the Stun Multiplier as a Limitation anyway. But then I run a Silver-Age style four-color campaign; I'd be more vicious in a Dark Champions or Iron Age campaign.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Given that I was the only one of the GMs in our group seemingly to even have questions about the 1-5 Stun Multiplier, and even I didn't have any real idea of what I wanted to change anyway, I think we'll stick with the Multiple as is. Only one member of our PC team even has a Killing Attack, and he has a Total Code vs Killing (A 3d6+1 Penetrating RKA vs ED defined as a focused teleport, it's designed to smash machines. Does it pretty well, too.)

 

When I build villains with Killing Attacks I often buy down the Stun Multiplier as a Limitation anyway. But then I run a Silver-Age style four-color campaign; I'd be more vicious in a Dark Champions or Iron Age campaign.

 

It's not a PC issue for me, either, it's just as we get to higher levels some of the villain and NPC shots are getting a little wild and personally I don't like to fudge die rolls, even though it certainly is recognized GM perogative.

[Vorsch]

In my game i use a x2 stun multiplier, reflects swords and guns quite well. after all a sword and a baseball bat do different types of damage, yet the sword does less stun if it cant penetrate the defences.

 

but for each body that a KA inflict it causes 1d6 stun with no defence. so a human shot with a 1d6 pistol, body roll of 4, takes 8 stun -2pd, and an extra 4d6 stun for an average of 20 pts, soumds about right to me.

 

I object to a KA being capable even on average of inflicting more stun than EB, and that encourages players to buy them. My rule makes them weaker than EB which i think suits genre.

[zornwil]

I should add, the other reason I am considering reining in the stun multiple is that I remove the BOD damage FIRST from the defenses, and then ONLY the "remaining" defenses apply against STUN damage. So STUN does already get through more.

[Vorsch]

That gives KA a 30% DC bonus, do any of your players ever buy EB, just curious.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Vorsch

That gives KA a 30% DC bonus, do any of your players ever buy EB, just curious.

 

I don't think any of the PCs have a killing attack. Hmm, no, wait, there is one but it's very low, it's basically a field to break gadgets.

[zornwil]

PS - also, just to be very clear, ALL attacks work this way, not just KAs, in which case, yes, it'd be an overwhelming advantage.