Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Gary Yeah, but the dude is only 78 pts. If he put all the rest of his points into Dex, Spd, movements, and defenses, the result would be the same. Banning Megascale is a wise decision. Why ban Megascale? The problem is powers with +6 in advantages. No more than +1 1/2 in advantages... or thereabouts. Or it is time for the return of 'how can I break duplication' guy. Followed by 'Garys guy WITHOUT megascale' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Which completely misses the point. The challenge is to have someone who can pop up in front of the army and start swinging. (or blasting) Besides which, this is actual cheese. You have +6 in advantages on the RKA. I used +1 1/4 at most... and that was 0 end persistent hardened on a forcefield. Hint: There is very little cheese you can do when you don't use an assload of advantages. More to the point, Spirit of Stone is simply a high end swamp thing/hulk hybrid. Your guy is not a comic book character, regardless of power level. You missed the point. The character wasn't meant as a serious entry, but simply as a parody. If I wanted a serious entry, I'd simply build a desolidifier. And without megascale, Spirit of Stone simply doesn't have enough movement to provide a credible threat. The military would crush him as soon as he pops one tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Why ban Megascale? The problem is powers with +6 in advantages. No more than +1 1/2 in advantages... or thereabouts. Or it is time for the return of 'how can I break duplication' guy. Followed by 'Garys guy WITHOUT megascale' Ok, 1" superleap usable as attack megascale distance. Everybody hit goes flying 1 km in the air and then falls at terminal velocity. 2 active points, and only +1.25 in advantages. Or something as simple as explosion, megascale, penetrating personal immunity. +1.5 in advantages, and every nonhardened foci in the target area is going to be nuked. Megascale is inherently abusive and unbalanced, especially if used against an army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by Gary You missed the point. The character wasn't meant as a serious entry, but simply as a parody. If I wanted a serious entry, I'd simply build a desolidifier. And without megascale, Spirit of Stone simply doesn't have enough movement to provide a credible threat. The military would crush him as soon as he pops one tank. Really? Even if he goes straight down? Doesn't 1 hex of dirt have an assload of BODY? In any event, I wasn't trying to build him on 350. I just realized that I *could*... Make him 450. Give him +27" Tunneling. Again... he pops straight down. Try digging for him. Oh, and you still haven't broken megascale on non-attack powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 So many tangents, must ignore... Supers who can take on the military? They need to be able to detect long-distance threats from the conventional military or be able to ignore the long-distance attacks from the military. They need to have long range attacks for fast-moving fighters and the like or enough speed to catch up to them. They just plain need to have speed. The ability to jam radar or be invisible to radar would be handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Really? Even if he goes straight down? Doesn't 1 hex of dirt have an assload of BODY? In any event, I wasn't trying to build him on 350. I just realized that I *could*... Make him 450. Give him +27" Tunneling. Again... he pops straight down. Try digging for him. Oh, and you still haven't broken megascale on non-attack powers. Have you heard of bunker busting bombs, that penetrate a certain amount of material and then explode? Megascale on movements would allow characters to attack and then zip off half way around the world whenever the military gathers enough forces to react. It makes things far too easy. How about 5" teleport to safe location megascale 1"=1000 km scalable (+1.25) trigger on a command word or if I fall unconscious or die (+.25). It fits your magic +1.5 in advantages, but it's clearly broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Gary - NOT A COMPETITION! All I was trying to do was provide a characvter who should be able to stand up to the army (descriptively) and to match that to their real capabilities. There are many other ways to build this kind of thing. Nature Elemental is just relatively easy... Oh, and the T-Port? You end up within 1000km of your chosen location. Not particularly useful. Spirit of Stone, Megascale Free 73 STR 50/100* 30 DEX 14/23* 40 CON 30 10 BOD 15 0 INT 10 2 EGO 11 18 PRE 28 0 COM 10 0 PD 10/20* 2 ED 8 13 SPD 3/5* 0 REC 16/26* 0 END 60 0 STN 55/80* === 188 * = Bought with the Advantages 'Only in Hero ID' and 'Only when in Contact with the Ground' 7 Living Earth: Clinging* 13 Living Earth: Life Support: Breathing, Vacuum, High Pressure, Radiation* 12 Living Earth: -9" Knockback Resistance * 18 Spirit of Stone: Invisibility to Sight and Detect Motion, 0 Endurance Cost, Linked to Density Increase* 20 Spirit of Stone Elemental Control* a10 Earthsight: Clairvoyance, 4800" Range, 0 Endurance Cost, Only through Earth (-1) b25 Drift through Stone: 38" Teleport, Requires Continuous path throught Stone (-1/4) c20 Solid Stone: 40 points of Density Increase, 0 Endurance Cost d22 Skin of Stone: 18/10 Force Field, 0 Endurance Cost, Persistent, Hardened 8 Tough Anyway: 8/8 Damage Resistance === 134 3 Bump of Direction == 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 The teleport is to a fixed or floating location (for 1 or 5 extra pts) within 5000 km. Very useful. It's sorta like the Word of Recall or Contingency spell in D&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzinbane Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 I had a PC back in 4th edition that could and did take on the Military. He was basically an earth elemental type that could move through and see through the earth and natural rock. As such he was invisible to all common military targetting and attack though seismometers could know if he's around. Just move below a tank and cause it to sink into the earth, go on to the next one and repeat. You don't need to destroy the army, just render it inoperable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 3 marvel super heros that could easily deal ith a large military force cannonball with his high speed and invunrability would easily make a mess of airsupport spider man with the webbing to deal with sensors hatches and his formidible stregth to destroy wepons and tracks he can easily disable a whole tank group and quicksilver even without a bag of grenade's he's the perfect tool for disabling infantry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 you could probably define a really tough brick as nigh-invulnerable to conventional military hardware without too many PC vs. PC/PC vs. NPC balance issues popping up. either Desol vs. X, or DR, only vs. X, or +32rPD Armor, hard, only vs. X, plus KB resist, only vs. X, etc. That probably annoys the purists, but is a great sfx power, and explains why only the heroes can defeat Villain X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanderbilt_Grad Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by WhammeWhamme Everyone misses the variable advantage... 6"? No. Just a note, but per the FAQ Variable Advantage must be bought to at least the +1/2 level (making it a +1 advantage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Vanderbilt_Grad Just a note, but per the FAQ Variable Advantage must be bought to at least the +1/2 level (making it a +1 advantage). "Q: Is there a minimum value for Variable Advantage? A: Yes, +1/2." The value of an advantage is what you pay, is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 We're going all over the place over silly minutiae. What archetypes should there be for militarybeaters? Real fast guys Real tough guys Guys who can't be touched by conventional arms What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Guys (or gals) who can strike at great range. Subset of "real fast guys": very fast fliers who can hang with jet aircraft. Subset of "real tough guys": very strong guys who can manhandle armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Tacticians Captain America, batman Cyclops, reed Richards With good communications a superior tactician is a decisive advantage Terrain masters Aqua man, jack hawks Moore, storm Capable of using the environment to their advantage if you control the field of battle you force the enemy to fight on your terms. Artillery Storm, Long range indirect attacks over terrain obstacles or the horizon storm can call lightning or tornados to this effect there are relatively few super heroes with these sorts of powers. Heavy hitters Hulk, Thor, thing, colossus Used for breaching static defenses and dealing with immobile Armour and artillery emplacements most have poor combat movement and thus rely on faster moving units to delay or disable targets before moving in for the kill. Air support Human torch, storm, north star, star man, Apollo supers who can target ground based opponents from the air to assist ground forces Air superiority Hawk girl cannonball swift Destroying enemy aircraft to keep the air space free for their own air support Multi-role Sue Richards Spiderman Green Lantern The Doctor The Engineer Iceman, Magneto, Wolverine, Night crawler These types fill multiple roles plugging the gaps in the supers offense defense or logistics magneto supplies brute force but also defense and logistical support sue Richards offers defense but also stealth and offense whilst night crawler can use his superior maneuverability for offense against, any type of opponent delaying action and emergency evac. Infantry nullification Quicksilver, The Flash, Jack HawksMoore, Iceman These are the people who can easily keep a large number of infantry occupied infantry is often dangerous even to all but the toughest super heroes so you need to nullify them super heroes like spider man that might have no trouble with disabling a tank (using proper tactics) but can fall pray too only 20 or so trained soldiers. Defense green lantern sue Richards iceman green lantern self explanatory scouting Sue richards Batman Kitty Pryde Able to gain acces sto enemy positiosn to report troop movments etc and give early warning of possibel threats they also offer an early lienof defense scouts can act as a force multiplyer with sutible equipment they can perform area denial delaying tactics etc. Logistics magneto, vanisher, most super teams make use of jets or base located teleporters to fill this role getting them and there equipment into the field and evacuating out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Mentalists People who are difficult to find (Invisibility, Teleport, Shapeshifters, stealth skills) People with unusual abilities (Transmuters, Wizards, Telemechanics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storn Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 My main PC, who is a 500+ Teke can ignore small arms fire. He can hold his action and use missile deflect vs. big guns and worse, reflect if it is a physical projectile (in other words, missiles, boys and girls... not laser beams).... so the main military big things would just end up being used against them. He can fly a decent 200 mph and while that is slow compared to jets and helicopters.... we've found out in actual game play that a force field quickly put up in front of a flying aircraft will total it. Aircraft will not want to pursue... missiles will not be able to lock onto such a small moving target. And it is so easy to do! Just hit the freakin' hex! in front of the craft. He has area TK, 20 str, affect pourous and fine manip.... that can play havoc with many, many individuals at once. The V man is tactically skilled and smart... proven combat experience in a hundred battles. he knows when to retreat. He knows when the fog of war is more useful that piling on casualties. he knows that an army is most vulnerable in terms of morale and supply and he knows how to hit those things. He is a pilot and he knows system ops and just how much gear can handle a good shaking. A squad has no chance. A platoon has a snow ball chance. A company actually has a small chance. Anything more than a company will take him down. I have no illusions. Numbers will eventually wear him out. And, oh yeah, he can call upon his teammates... both who are tougher than he is for the military to handle. And one of them is the President of an entire nation of Pnorms.... smaller than Lictenschtien... but still... a nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 hmm...3d6 Drain vs. Body, AE-1 hex, megascale 2 levels(10km)...vaporize everything in a 5km radius within 4 phases, for a cost of 60 active points. Military hardware doesn't have power defense. Or just take 3d6 drain body, AE-radius(6m). For 60 active points, you can vape an Abrams in 4 phases. For 75 active points, you can wipe out a whole platoon. I think the military beaters could win by doing stuff the military really can't defend itself against. Mentalists, drainers, desolidifiers, teleporters, invisible PCs, tech manipulators(all that hardware is useless if guidance systems are jammed) would work alongside the hyperskilled covert operators and the powerhouse sluggers and blasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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