Focus/Independent Questions

[Evilgod]

Hey there. Have quite a few questions about the Focus and Independent limitations. I only have the 4th addition rule book, so maybe 5th addition is clearly, but to me the rules are very vague.

 

1. Can a villain kill a hero (or possibly another villain) and permanently take a universal focus?

 

2. What about someone whose character gimmick is a thief, could you play a focus thief, against other players or NPC. If so how long could they keep them. Could that character turn around and sell them to another player, until the original owner was able to retrieve it. Or, is this only the case if the power has Independent hook to it.

 

3. What about guns and the such, according to my interpretation to the rules, in a superhero campaign a character must pay for everything including mundane things like guns. So what's the point of spending points on the Resource Perk (especially the 15pt gazzilionare one)? Were reasonably if one had enough money and the resource, they could by anything: robots, tanks, M-60s, etc.

 

4. What about Contacts and Favors? If one's Contact is a weaponsmith, shouldn't they be able to purchase weapons (or maybe even more exotic things depending on who or what the contact specialty is) without having to pay character points for them? If so how long can they keep them? Until the end of the adventure, until they are broke or lost in the heat of battle?.

 

5. What if someone's universal focus is a "Death Ray Ring" and a opposing character successfully wrestles it away from the owner. They then turn around and use it on the original owner and turn him to cinders, is this a free item or are the points used up when the original character is dead? Once again is it all up to whether or not Independent is involved?

 

Please let me know the answers to these questions (and any other clarifications you would like to add), they have been a thorn in my GM side for a long time. Appreciate your time.

[Monolith]

Re: Focus/Independent Questions

 

Originally posted by Evilgod

1. Can a villain kill a hero (or possibly another villain) and permanently take a universal focus?

This depends on the genre (heroic or superheroic) and whether or not the GM cares if a villain kills a character and takes his equipment. In most cases it does not matter if a villain takes someone's equipement because the villain is under the control of the GM, and it's the GM's job to maintain balance within the game.

 

2. What about someone whose character gimmick is a thief, could you play a focus thief, against other players or NPC. If so how long could they keep them. Could that character turn around and sell them to another player, until the original owner was able to retrieve it. Or, is this only the case if the power has Independent hook to it.

Once again this depends on the genre. Assuming a heroic level genre it is possible that a thief can steal someone's equipment and sell it (I think if he tried to use it the PCs would make him give it back). It's also possible that the item taken is not so unique that the PC cannot get another one (I've lost my broadsword. I guess I better go buy another one).

 

In the superhero genre the player needs to pay points to be able to permanently use an item. He can use it for an adventure or two, depending on the situation, but paying the points for the item is required if he wants to continue using the item. The paying of points in a superhero game is what ensures play balance between characters.

 

3. What about guns and the such, according to my interpretation to the rules, in a superhero campaign a character must pay for everything including mundane things like guns. So what's the point of spending points on the Resource Perk (especially the 15pt gazzilionare one)? Were reasonably if one had enough money and the resource, they could by anything: robots, tanks, M-60s, etc.

The resource Perk allows you to be able to spend the points on the weapon. Joe Cardboard Box lives in an alley off main street is not going to have enough money to be able to buy Hummer to ride around it. Joe Millionaire does. It doesn't matter how many points Joe Cardboard Box has, if the character cannot justify the resources to get the item he really cannot get it.

 

4. What about Contacts and Favors? If one's Contact is a weaponsmith, shouldn't they be able to purchase weapons (or maybe even more exotic things depending on who or what the contact specialty is) without having to pay character points for them? If so how long can they keep them? Until the end of the adventure, until they are broke or lost in the heat of battle?.

Once again character points go back to play balance. Money is the SFX of how you get the item, not how your character pays for it. The fact that you have a contact allows you to have a SFX of getting the items in questions. It does not mean you can have everything you want just because you have a Contact.

 

Once again, most GM's will allow a player to "get" and use an unpaid for item for an adventure or two. It depends on the nature of the adventure. If the players are in the Savage Lands for a month the GM might allow you players to use spears for the month. If the players are in Millennium City then the GM might require the character to get rid of the used item when they return to base.

 

You need to remember that it is in the superhero genre to not spend a great deal of time using "found" items. Daredevil does not pick up every item of his foe's and add it to his arsenal. Daredevil uses his own equipment and he likes it that way, not matter how much better his opponent's equipment might be.

 

5. What if someone's universal focus is a "Death Ray Ring" and a opposing character successfully wrestles it away from the owner. They then turn around and use it on the original owner and turn him to cinders, is this a free item or are the points used up when the original character is dead? Once again is it all up to whether or not Independent is involved?

If a player wrestles Mandarin's Death Ray Ring from him and kills him with it, then Mandarin is dead. But again in a superhero game the player only gets to permanently keep the item if he can pay the character points for it. As was mentioned above, it's a play balance issue and a superhero genre issue.

[Bengal]

The way Monolith put it seems right to me. It's up the GM to manufacture reasons why the characters can't keep the cool loot if the players of those characters won't gve it up on their own. Malfunctioning technology, equipment (even universal foci) attuned to the lifeforce of a certain character ("It just stopped working moments after the Mandarin died. No idea why."), the authorities wanting to examine this particular WMD or whatever... but certainly, even an Insta-Kill Death-O-Matic SuperGun wrested from the grasp of the Supreme Serpent himself would make a better trophy than weapon for most superheroes.

[Jhamin]

Re: Focus/Independent Questions

 

While I generally agree with Monolith, let me add a couple of addendums.

 

3. What about guns and the such, according to my interpretation to the rules, in a superhero campaign a character must pay for everything including mundane things like guns. So what's the point of spending points on the Resource Perk (especially the 15pt gazzilionare one)? Were reasonably if one had enough money and the resource, they could by anything: robots, tanks, M-60s, etc.

 

You can't just have a bunch of stuff because you are rich, otherwise every rich person would have a closet full of Iron Man battle armor. You still need to pay points.

 

Wealth is still very worth it for all the noncombat/roleplaying value it has.

-Stately Wayne manor just sounds so much better than Apartment 3b. The batcave cost points, the mansion is just a bennie of the wealth.

-Do you need to make sure a villian never gets his hands on a rare/evil book? Buy it.

-Does the team need to get to the Outback to stop Dr. Unconscionable and the omegajet is all banged up? 4 1st classs tickets on Quanza coming up.

-Is Sen. Anti-mutant's reelection going off without a hitch? Contribute heavily to the other guy. A good oppertunity to use all those KS: Government and Persuasion skills out of costume.

 

4. What about Contacts and Favors? If one's Contact is a weaponsmith, shouldn't they be able to purchase weapons (or maybe even more exotic things depending on who or what the contact specialty is) without having to pay character points for them? If so how long can they keep them? Until the end of the adventure, until they are broke or lost in the heat of battle?.

 

Anything that they will have for more than a combat ought to either cost points or be a plot device. Having a Weaponsmith contact just allows you to justify having a Mutant Nullifier when your charcter barely finished High School.

If you are going to tote around a bunch of gizmoes all the time, then that is what Gadget Pools are made for. Just buy the VPP and swap out "must visit lab" with "must talk to Jimmy the Weaponsmith".

On the other hand, if you are about to fight Dr. Arctic then I would probably allow you to score a flamethrower by calling in a favor from the Marine Quartermaster that owes you. I just wouldn't let you keep it. Or do it all the time.

 

5. What if someone's universal focus is a "Death Ray Ring" and a opposing character successfully wrestles it away from the owner. They then turn around and use it on the original owner and turn him to cinders, is this a free item or are the points used up when the original character is dead? Once again is it all up to whether or not Independent is involved?

 

Don't get too hung up on the powers and points and how they are related. A Gadget is really just a power the character has with a neato justification. Don't let bad guys steal them anymore than you would let someone steal a wizard's magic. Let them lose the focus, that's what the limit is for, but don't let them lose the power. They just can't use it until they get their gear back.

 

Heck, there are whole characters who are based off of taking/inheriting gizmoes from someone else. I doubt that anyone would argue that Green Lantern doesn't need to pay for the ring because some dying alien just gave it to him.

 

The Hobgoblin got everything he had by taking it from the Green Goblin. Even though it was basically the same gear, and somone else had paid for it, because that stuff became the basis for his powers he still paid points for all of it.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Focus/Independent Questions

 

Deliberately not reading downthread before I answer.

 

Originally posted by Evilgod

1. Can a villain kill a hero (or possibly another villain) and permanently take a universal focus?

 

Yes.

 

2. What about someone whose character gimmick is a thief, could you play a focus thief, against other players or NPC. If so how long could they keep them. Could that character turn around and sell them to another player, until the original owner was able to retrieve it. Or, is this only the case if the power has Independent hook to it.

 

Unless he pays points for it, he can keep it for as long as the GM lets him. He could do whatever he wanted with it, including sell it, blend it in a milkshake and drink it, etc. General rule: If he pays the points he gets to keep it; if he doesn't pay the points, the GM gets to hose him out of it. (This will hereafter be referred to as the "GM hoseage rule".)

 

3. What about guns and the such, according to my interpretation to the rules, in a superhero campaign a character must pay for everything including mundane things like guns. So what's the point of spending points on the Resource Perk (especially the 15pt gazzilionare one)? Were reasonably if one had enough money and the resource, they could by anything: robots, tanks, M-60s, etc.

 

Characters have to pay points for mundane things because it is in genre for superheroes not to carry around mundane things. You don't see Batman carrying around a .45, do you?

 

4. What about Contacts and Favors? If one's Contact is a weaponsmith, shouldn't they be able to purchase weapons (or maybe even more exotic things depending on who or what the contact specialty is) without having to pay character points for them? If so how long can they keep them? Until the end of the adventure, until they are broke or lost in the heat of battle?.

 

See GM hoseage rule above.

 

5. What if someone's universal focus is a "Death Ray Ring" and a opposing character successfully wrestles it away from the owner. They then turn around and use it on the original owner and turn him to cinders, is this a free item or are the points used up when the original character is dead? Once again is it all up to whether or not Independent is involved?

 

Assuming it's not a Personal Focus, then the item is suddenly free. It's not like the item vanishes because there are no "points" maintaining its existence. It has nothing at all to do with Independent. (Along these lines, whether or not a Power stops working when its owner dies should be a matter of setting rather than of rules.)

 

There seems to be a misconception somewhere along the line (common to Hero gamers, I'm not picking on you) that if an item exists, someone has to have paid points for it. This is not the case, fears of "assembly line enchanters" creating millions of magic items in Fantasy Hero worlds notwithstanding.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Re: Focus/Independent Questions

 

Originally posted by Jhamin

The Hobgoblin got everything he had by taking it from the Green Goblin. Even though it was basically the same gear, and somone else had paid for it, because that stuff became the basis for his powers he still paid points for all of it.

 

To make it even more confusing, two characters could conceivably have paid points for the same Focus! I have no idea what would happen in that case, but there's nothing in the rules against it.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Re: Focus/Independent Questions

 

Originally posted by Monolith

The resource Perk allows you to be able to spend the points on the weapon. Joe Cardboard Box lives in an alley off main street is not going to have enough money to be able to buy Hummer to ride around it. Joe Millionaire does. It doesn't matter how many points Joe Cardboard Box has, if the character cannot justify the resources to get the item he really cannot get it.

 

Would disagree with this. If Joe Cardboard Box paid the points, he's got the Hummer. He would still have to justify it, but I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the points.

[Bengal]

Wealth is a justification. Joe Cardboard Box would need another IG justification besides wealth. Maybe he won it in the Thunderbird Hummer Giveaway.

 

"Great vinatge on this Thunderbird, man."

 

"Thursday?"

 

"Yup. Hey, lookit this, says I could win a Hummer."

 

"That would sure beat sleeping in a cardboard box."

 

"You're right, I could even change my name."

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Bengal

"That would sure beat sleeping in a cardboard box."

 

"You're right, I could even change my name."

 

LOL, good one.