tkdguy Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 In Fantasy Hero, having a military rank is a fringe benefit. Would you include it in a Star Hero campaign, and how many points would you assign to it? This is what I did for a Star Trek game: Petty Officer/CPO = 1 pt. Ensign/Lieutenant JG = 2 pt. Lieutenant/Lt. Commander = 3 pt. Commander/Captain = 4 pt. Commodore/Admiral = 5 pt. Later, after having bought the new FH, I wrote this down for my game, with different point costs. Corporal = 1 Sergeant = 2 Ensign = 3 Lieutenant = 4 Captain = 5 Major = 6 Colonel = 7 General = 8 Note that during the Renaissance, ensign (or ensign bearer) was an army rank. Today, perhaps the Warrant Officer grade would be the equivalent. What are your ideas about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I think you should start by defining what each individual rank's benefits actually are. In a Star Trek universe, for example, an argument can be made for the "Captain" perk being worth more than the "Admiral" one. Sure, admirals can order captains about, but admirals also get stuck behind desks on planets, where they are in constant communication with starfleet command/federation politicians. They dont have nearly the leeway to do as they please that Captains do. I'd go with something more like this : Crewman = 0 points Low Officer = 1 point High Oficer = 2 points Department Head = +1 point 1st Offcier = +1 point "Captain" = +2 point Flag Rank = +1 point Low Officer Status Grants : Enhancement to social status Ability to command crewmen (& Lower Low Officers) High Officer Status Grants : Low officer abilities More enhancement to social status Ability to command all Low Officers & Lower High Officers Department Head status grants : Ability to -not- be commanded by higher ranks in matters of one's department. 1st Officer : Even more enhancement to social status Ability to command department heads. "Captain" : Yet more enhancement to social status Ability to command all that one surveys -when out of port- Flag Rank : Highest enhancement to social status Ability to command captains (from afar, usually. Also the ability to lead multi ship task forces) Examples : Captain Kirk = High Officer, "Captain", 4 points. Captian Picard = High Officer, "Captian", Flag, 5 points. Chief O'Brien = Crew, Department Head , 1 point. Lt Cmdr Data = High Officer, 2 points. Ensign Checkov = Low Officer, 1 point. Chief Kyle = Crewman, 0 points. Random Deskbound Admiral = High Officer, Flag Rank, 3 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Outsider is absolutely right. Define what each level of rank gives you, then stat it out from there. An Example from the Babylon 5 Universe: I based this on the theory that in a B5 campain military rank was important, but that it only helps you with other members of earth force, the aliens don't care. In those cases your official areas of expertise and responsibility come into play. For Example; Mr. Garabauldi had law enforment powers and the Station commander was also an ambassador, so aliens did have to listen to that. In an all-Earth Force game, the ranks would cost more. Enlisted - 0 Points Low Officer - 1 Point Officer - 2 Points High Officer - 3 Points Then mix with the following: Authority - 1 Point, You have official clout and others of lower/equal rank *must* obey you in these matters. Expertise - 1 Point, in your area of knowledge your opinion counts as official fact. Department Head - 2 Points, others below you in *your branch* orginization must follow your commands. Command - 3 Points, you may give orders to anyone below your rank in a large orginization Ambassador - You are recognized as speaking for your people and must be resepected by everyone who does not wish to insult your race. Examples: Mr Garabauldi = Officer, Authority (Security), Expertise (Security), Department Head (Security) 6 Points Lt. Cmdr Ivoniva = Officer, Authority (Shipping Regulations), Department Head (Command & Control), 5 Points Dr. Franklin = Enlisted, Authority (Medical Matters), Expertise (Medicine), Department Head (Med Lab) - 4 Points Cmdr Sinclair = Officer, Command (Babylon 5), Ambassador - 8 Points Captain Sheriden = High Officer, Command (Babylon 5), Ambassador - 9 Points (and later, Command - Rangers, bringing him up to 12) Mr. Bester = Officer, Authority (Psi Corps regulations), Expertise (PSI Abilites), 4 Points Lt. Keffler = Low Officer - 1 Point Zack Allen = Low Officer, Authority (Security) - 2 Points (In later seasons he gain rank, become a department head and gain expertise, bringing him up to 6) Lt. Corwin = Low Officer, Authority (Shipping Regs) - 2 Points (In season five he becomes a Department Head) Random Starfury Pilot = Enlisted - 0 Points (but you do get to fly around) Random Security Guard = Enlisted, Authority (Security) - 1 Point Under this system rank and title end up costing more than they do in Outsiders Star Trek system, but then "pulling rank" comes up alot more on B5 than it does on Star Trek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Sounds good. I was basing the cost based on the number of people normally under the officer's command. How about this one for infantry types: Squad Leader: 1 Platoon Leader: 3 Company Commander: 5 Battalion Commander: 7 Brigade Commander: 9 Corps Commander: 11 Division Commander: 13 Army Chief-of-staff: 15 The point cost for Executive Officers is 1 less than his immediate superior. Thus a company's XO is 4 points, and the platoon sergeant position is 2 points. This also apples to senior NCOs and those in the administrative staff of generals. I know things get expensive at the higher levels but the officers in those positions have the rank of general (although some Brigade Commanders are colonels). So these costs should work out fairly well. And what GM would allow his players to start out as generals anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Alien Wars includes a pretty specific military rank table with cost, I believe TE also does but I'm not 100% sure of that. Due to the fact that these are current products its probably not appropriate to duplicate them here for you but you could always go to your FLGS and take a peak (of course AW is so wonderful you will be compelled to buy it so bring cash ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 As general info, Pilots aren't typically enlisted men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Ranks For my scifi style games I do away with the Officer/Enlisted break. The entire reason to have one has esentially gone away and many "enlisted" are far better educated and experienced than the officers placed over them. In a technical military where large numbers of under-educated fighters have been replaced by small numbers of highly skilled technical soldiers it becomes very important that the officer in charge actually understand not just in general but in specific of how a task or objective is to be acheived. Anyhow, I suggest you decide how you want your organization to be structured and then make ranks to suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Having had one cousin who attained Master Cheif Petty Officer (MCPO) in the Navy and another who attained Cheif Warrant Officer (CWO) in the Navy. Putting the cost of an Ensign or 2nd Lt. perk above enlisted ranks 8 and above (E8, E9, E10, WO1, WO2, WO3,) is wrong. The higher level Sargents and Petty Officers are actually in more control than the lower officer ranks (O1, O2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 You're absolutely right, Tim. Even if the officers outrank those guys, it's the senior NCOs who actually run the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 My cousin who was a CWO, was also on an Admiral's staff. (He liked to say it took him 15 years to only have to share a room with one other guy.) He could, on vague orders, go to the ship's captain and say "the Admiral requests..." and it would be followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahduval Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 While I can't help defining what the ranks mean, I did the following site world rank insignia This site provides titles and pictures of ranks of various militaries and law enforcement agencies If you select fictive and then movies & television one can see the ranks for the various star trek eras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Thanks, ahduval. I've been trying to get that info for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I would argue that senior NCOs end up being highly valued/powerful not becuase they have a perk that allows them to be, but because they -probably- have a lot more skill points/favors/contacts than do freshly minted O-1s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I have to agree with outsider. An E-7 can tell an O-2 what to do because he knows, and the O-2, if he has any sense at all, knows he knows. The O-2 is in command. The E-7 is in charge. It has less to do with social standing, and more to do with contacts, skills, and presence. The average line unit E-7 in the Army has a combat patch and a hell of a lot of battlefield experience to go with it. The average O-2 has a Bachelors degree and REALLY shiny shoes. O-3s (Captains) tend to know what they are doing. The average Leiutenant does not. The E-7 does not get invited to the officer's club with the Colonel. The Louie might, even with a butter bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 I know. I remember in ROTC (one semester was all it took to convince me to remain a civilian) the master sergeant was always telling the newly-commissioned lieutenant what to do. They always seemed to be arguing, but another cadet told me they were actually good friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Keep in mind though, the liutenant still has the final say in the platoon. The sergeant can say whatever he wants, but if the lieutenant vetoes it, that's the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by tkdguy Keep in mind though, the liutenant still has the final say in the platoon. The sergeant can say whatever he wants, but if the lieutenant vetoes it, that's the end of it. You can delegate authority, not responsibility. If the mission goes south, no one should blame the sergeant if he has followed the orders of the OIC - even if the SGT wrote the orders.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted February 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by BoneDaddy You can delegate authority, not responsibility. If the mission goes south, no one should blame the sergeant if he has followed the orders of the OIC - even if the SGT wrote the orders.. The blame usually goes to whomever the CO wants to blame (usually who's on his sh*t list). but it's usually the guy "in charge." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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