What don't you like

[dstarfire]

power combos

 

I don't like the fact that density increase is a seperate power. It's basically a combination of str boost and def boost, with the minor effect of added weight (more of an sfx than an actual mechanic). Just another thing to emphasize that hero is primarily built for comic book superhero campaigns.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Believe me, I love the system. I didn't stick with it during the Dark Days for nothing, you know.

 

But that love isn't blind -- I can see things I feel are flaws. Now, being a long-time gamer I fix/ignore them for my own campaigns. However, ideally they should be fixed to reduce the "real learning curve" (see below) for new players.

 

*By this I'm refering to the things many excuse with the argument about the GM's veto power, like "It's the GM's responsibility to keep a wizard from buying up STR and CON if he wants the traditional fantasy wizard." If these flaws were corrected, new GM's wouldn't have to learn they need to do this.

 

A game that covered every contingency and balance question in the rules book would be the size of a US congressional appropriations package, or a stack of NYC phonebooks. Unless that's what we want, the GM -- and the players -- have a responsibility to deal with those things.

 

And again, I have to point out that whether or not these things are flaws or not is a matter of opinion. Most of the things I see pointed out as "flaws" just don't seem all that big a deal to me.

 

If a player insists that he wants to play a traditional fantasy wizard, and yet also insists on having all sorts of things that run counter to that concept, despite this being pointed out to him, then the problem isn't with the system, it's with the player. Like most things in life, I find it grossly unfair when the rest of us are restricted because of what idiots do.

 

If I wanted a system that catered to the lowest common denominator, I'd play d20.

 

EDIT: Fixed typo, replaced "are" with "or", added an "is".

 

[Vondy]

Regeneration should be a separate power and keep the adders. Making it an adjunct of Healing didn't actually change the power. It just made it more mechanically clunky than it was before.

 

Megascale is nice, cheap, and clunky. You have to purchase a power twice if you want to use it both on a local and mega scale (unless you purchase variable advantage, but then, maybe the only advantage you wanted was megascale). Its also toooooo cheap in many cases.

 

Damage Shield costs. The power (unless you do some exotic dinking) simply isn't effective enough to warrant the huge modifier costs.

 

Transport Familiarity for recreational vehicles is too expensive if you have a James Bond type character. There should be2 point categories for "Snow" "Water" and "Air."

 

Network Administration should be under Systems Operation instead of Computer Programming. I know plenty of network admins who can't write code (or just do web dev stuff).

 

Autofire Skills: 20 Points?! Ug.

 

Two Weapon Fighting - with sweep, rapid fire, and PSLs - does it need to exist?

 

Still - Make Mine Hero!

[coach]

I don't like what they did to Multiform and Duplication.

 

I also do not like the "once Stunned, always Stunned" rule. Getting Stunned for a single Phase is bad enough, but prolonging that whenever anybody leaks 1 pip of Stun through is just too painful. Already the game is too random, that just exacerbates the problem.

 

I also have issue with Megascale. It is too powerful and yet too inconvenient all at the same time. I tried to make a Star Trek style teleporter, and after much pain came out with something that could teleport you anywhere from 1km to 10000km, and anywhere from 1" to 80", but not more than 80" but less than 1km. Another example of how it is way too powerful is my flying skateboard character who took 25" Flight with a +1/4 Variable Advantage (costing +1/2). So, normally he used that as 1/2 End or Invisible to Hearing, but could slap on one level of Megascale and end up going 500x as fast as everyone else, approximately 27,000mph.

[ghost-angel]

The transporter problem can be solved with a few more points involved .. place the power inside a Multipower, the first slot is the Megascaled Teleport, the second slot is the same level of teleport (80" in your example) without Megascale applied. Voila, you can transport someone 1" or 800,000 KM depending on which button you hit.

 

As for the Variable Advantage the advantage itself states that you should probably predefine which advantages can be taken by the power to fit within the special effects and GM caveat.

 

The system is Open Ended by nature and expects you as the player and GM to limit it according to your needs.

[lemming]

Originally posted by coach

I also do not like the "once Stunned, always Stunned" rule. Getting Stunned for a single Phase is bad enough, but prolonging that whenever anybody leaks 1 pip of Stun through is just too painful. Already the game is too random, that just exacerbates the problem.

I disliked that one as well. I changed it in my house rules. It's not just 1 stun, it's another stunning effect.

[Kristopher]

Isn't there a "scaleable" extra advantage or adder for Megascale?

[lemming]

Originally posted by Kristopher

Isn't there a "scaleable" extra advantage or adder for Megascale?

Yes, an extra +1/4

[ghost-angel]

Originally posted by Kristopher

Isn't there a "scaleable" extra advantage or adder for Megascale?

 

Yes, the catch is it only goes down to the smallest level of Megascale of 1" = 1km. Once megascaled you cannot take it below the 1km level anymore.

 

Here's a thought though:

 

+1/2 - Fully Scalable Megscale, for an additional +1/2 a character can scale a Megascaled power from 2m to the highest purchased value.

 

A megascale purchased to 1,000km is a +1 or +1 1/4 with Scalable or +1 1/2 for Fully Scalable.

 

Is an idea at least.

 

In Hero - Everything Can Be Fixed.

[coach]

Originally posted by ghost-angel

The transporter problem can be solved with a few more points involved .. place the power inside a Multipower, the first slot is the Megascaled Teleport, the second slot is the same level of teleport (80" in your example) without Megascale applied. Voila, you can transport someone 1" or 800,000 KM depending on which button you hit.

Right, that's what I did, of course. However, given that this is in our PC's base, and we don't want it to be inordinately expensive, the Megascale slot can send you from 1km to 50,000km (or so), and the non-Mega slot can send you from 1" to 20" (I mispoke earlier). The problem is that to get from 20" to 1km, you have to buy a bunch of distance multipliers. With all of the other advantages on this (at range, UAA, etc), it quickly gets into the many hundreds of active points. So, I can teleport someone from Earth to the satellite and back again for 170 points. Or, I could teleport them across the Earth. And, I can teleport them across the street. But I cannot teleport them across a football field. (And, please, no discussions on whether this is unbalancing. It is not only a common comic book / sci-fi ability, it is also totally approved by our GM, I just need to know how to pay for it.)

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by ghost-angel

Yes, the catch is it only goes down to the smallest level of Megascale of 1" = 1km. Once megascaled you cannot take it below the 1km level anymore.

 

I thought you could buy Megascale at +1/4 and define an inch as some smaller increment than 1 km. Maybe you just need a few more Multipower slots, one with Megascale 1" = 100 meters, one with 1" = 10 meters. With a 10" non-megascale slot, that should cover all conceivable distances.

 

[Or take a +1/4 Variable Advantage at the low end so you can redefine your +1/4 megascale to be 1" = 10", 100", 1 km at our discretion.]

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by ghost-angel

Yes, the catch is it only goes down to the smallest level of Megascale of 1" = 1km. Once megascaled you cannot take it below the 1km level anymore.

 

Here's a thought though:

 

+1/2 - Fully Scalable Megscale, for an additional +1/2 a character can scale a Megascaled power from 2m to the highest purchased value.

 

A megascale purchased to 1,000km is a +1 or +1 1/4 with Scalable or +1 1/2 for Fully Scalable.

 

Is an idea at least.

 

In Hero - Everything Can Be Fixed.

 

I'd just ignore the lower limit on a Scalable Megascale, then. Or create that +1/2 Fully Scalable. **shrug**

[JmOz]

Or do what I do "Variable Advantage"

[dstarfire]

fully scalable megascale

 

hmmm, "fully scalable megascale". isn't that basically a HUGE aoe for the same cost as a single hex aoe?

 

In this example it'd fit perfectly, but most anything else would be severely unbalancing.

 

the simple solution: come with what you and the GM agree is a fair point cost, and forget the rules. Game rules are there to help, not hinder.

[Mike W]

I'm not fond of the recovery from CON stun rules either so we generally just say that you get the CON stun recovery unless you have been CON stunned again. However, we still say that you can't take a normal REC if you take damage in the phase.

[Kristopher]

Re: fully scalable megascale

 

Originally posted by dstarfire

hmmm, "fully scalable megascale". isn't that basically a HUGE aoe for the same cost as a single hex aoe?

 

In this example it'd fit perfectly, but most anything else would be severely unbalancing.

 

the simple solution: come with what you and the GM agree is a fair point cost, and forget the rules. Game rules are there to help, not hinder.

 

I'd forgetten all about Area of Effect...was just thinking of the range.

[lemming]

Re: Re: fully scalable megascale

 

Originally posted by Kristopher

I'd forgetten all about Area of Effect...was just thinking of the range.

Well, in the case of AE, you still need to buy the underlying AE.

[Kristopher]

True. That might be why I didn't think of it before.

 

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Kristopher

Well, unfortunately, the squeaky wheel gets oiled, so I guess it's important for those of us who _don't_ share these objections to say so too. I...

 

...don't mind STUN with no BODY.

...LIKE Power Defense.

...like the immediate breakout roll on Mental Powers.

...like Killing attack seperate from Energy Blast.

...don't mind the "Energy Blast" name, it's not like it confuses anyone.

...and a bunch of other stuff I can't think of right now.

 

And one of the other things I couldn't think of at that moment was Figured Characteristics. I really like Figured Characteristics.

[Vanguard]

About Mind Control:

 

From what I've read you do get a freebie break out roll AFTER you have followed said command for ONE (1) Phase.

 

(NOTE:I have never liked mentalists, I never will like mentalists and for the most part one of my characters will kill mentalists on sight).

 

Damages Shields (currently) Suck. Like was said, even if you don't have AP caps you have to pay a horrendous amount of points in order to make one effective. If you DO have AP caps, don't even bother looking at Damage Shield, it's a waste of time. (Although on a side note, you don't have to use Continuous in order to have a DS, you can, with GM permission construct one use Persistant in it's place).

 

Megascale:

 

As I believe Killer Shrike said, should only be allowed on Movement powers (probably only Vehicles too) and then carefully regulated. One of the players in our game had MegaScale and when we actually sat down and figured out how fast he went (we were curious) we realized that the only thing that would probably reach his destination would be a few teeth and a tatter or two of charred flesh.

 

Damage:

 

I know, when playing Champions you're playing a SuperHeroic game . . but taking 9 thousand stun and zero body just doesn't sit well with me. (I can live with it and I can deal with it but it is annoying).

 

Hmm . . can't think of anything else off the top of my head but I will have to say I do like Hero's flexibility and the ability to create ANYTHING your little heart desires.

[ghost-angel]

Re: fully scalable megascale

 

Originally posted by dstarfire

hmmm, "fully scalable megascale". isn't that basically a HUGE aoe for the same cost as a single hex aoe?

 

In this example it'd fit perfectly, but most anything else would be severely unbalancing.

 

the simple solution: come with what you and the GM agree is a fair point cost, and forget the rules. Game rules are there to help, not hinder.

 

The Fully Scalable MS is ON TOP OF normal MegaScale, not instead of. So to MegaScale to 1km and make it able to go back to 2m (1Hex) it's a +3/4 Advantage. the +1/2 Fully Scalable is an Adder to MegaScale that would allow you to go from the level you purchased MegaScale to all the way back to 1Hex = 1Hex.

 

I hope that makes better sense.

 

I completely agree with your simple solution BTW, discuss it with your GM and group and agree on a fair point cost.

[ghost-angel]

Originally posted by coach

Right, that's what I did, of course. However, given that this is in our PC's base, and we don't want it to be inordinately expensive, the Megascale slot can send you from 1km to 50,000km (or so), and the non-Mega slot can send you from 1" to 20" (I mispoke earlier). The problem is that to get from 20" to 1km, you have to buy a bunch of distance multipliers. With all of the other advantages on this (at range, UAA, etc), it quickly gets into the many hundreds of active points. So, I can teleport someone from Earth to the satellite and back again for 170 points. Or, I could teleport them across the Earth. And, I can teleport them across the street. But I cannot teleport them across a football field. (And, please, no discussions on whether this is unbalancing. It is not only a common comic book / sci-fi ability, it is also totally approved by our GM, I just need to know how to pay for it.)

 

In this case where you bought both the MS and the Normal Teleport inside a MultiPower to simulate going really far and really close I think it would be reasonable for your GM to say you can teleport to the distances that gap between where the Normal stops and the MegaScale starts. It seems fair to be honest.

 

This goes under the category of "Story supercedes Rules".

[lemming]

Besides some of which I posted before

• Damage Shield: I didn't find it that out of balance before 5th. Now it's too expensive unless you go cheesy. In my games, it's still +1/2 though I should check the new adders.
  
• Regeneration, Instant Change: I don't think making them that complex was that great of an idea.
  
• Penetrating: Works against Damage Reduction unless hardened? And what's with the love affair with penetrating killing attacks for most characters. (May be exagerated, there are a number though)
  
• Megascale: It's ok. It makes some things easier to write up. Just needs GM control.
  
• Some of the restrictions on MP are annoying, but workable.
  

There's no way that I'd be 100% happy with the rules even if I wrote my own version. Tinkering is fun and keeps me off the street at night.

[Pegasus]

What don't I like?

 

I don't like the way that everything seems to require massive modifier manipulation now. Anyone here remember when growth gave running and other inherent effects? Now you have to buy everything that goes with it. 50 feet tall with 6" of movement and no PRE increase. Yeah, right. Was it powerful? You bet your ass it was. So make it commensurately more expensive, don't neuter it. My opinion.

 

But this discussion about megascale t-porting in a multipower or with more clunky modifiers to duplicate a very simple effect (it's just increased range!) drives me nuts. It shouldn't be necessary.

 

When was the last time anyone used a naked power? No modifiers? I'm betting it was a long time, because of the reduced END modifier if nothing else. Which brings me to the number one thing I don't like.

 

I HATE endurance. I think it needs to be eliminated. 90% of the time it doesn't come into play. Usually that's because tons of points have been spent to make sure that it doesn't. If you want a power that places stress when used, add a lim that it costs STUN. I've heard of others that have eliminated the stat. I'm fully in that camp.

 

Oh, and I hate the new damage shield, too.

[Mike W]

I find it hard to believe that END never comes into play. What about pushing? What about the character who gets knocked to -3 STUN and wakes up with 7 STUN(and therefore 7 END)? What about long fights that go 2- 2 1/2 turns? We always buy enough END to last at least two turns but it still comes into play from time to time.