Temporary Duplication

[devlin1]

I'm on a Duplication kick right now. Mea culpa.

 

How would you build a temporary duplicate? In other words, a duplicate who, instead of recombining, just winks out of existence after five minutes or so.

 

Is Lingering applicable here? It's not an Instant power, but with Lingering you could specify exactly five minutes.

 

What about giving it Costs END and Uncontrolled, with an END Reserve that feeds Duplication exclusively so as to limit its duration?

 

[DocMan]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

I'd just build it as a limitation on the power. Especially if the duplicate only lasts a set time period. I'd be tempted to buy it with the can't recombine limitation, too.

 

Doc

[devlin1]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Cannot Recombine (+0) is in the bag for that one, rest assured. What value would you give the "Duplicates Vanish After Five Minutes" Limitation? Certainly most combats aren't going to last 25 Turns, so it shouldn't be worth too much.

[DocMan]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

It's probably only worth -1/4. As you said, it's not real limiting in combat, but it could be limiting in non-combat situations. Like when you're having your hero ID be presented a civic award by your secret ID.

 

Doc

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Dont have my books, but what about just putting it on a Continuous Charge with a duration of 5 minutes?

[devlin1]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Dont have my books' date=' but what about just putting it on a Continuous Charge with a duration of 5 minutes?[/quote']First of all, I knew if I said the magic word-- "Lingering"-- you'd weigh in on this.

 

My only problem with Continuing Charges (for this power and for most other powers where it is sometimes suggested) is this: what if I don't want it to have Charges? Or... wait... could it be a Recoverable Charge? Now we're talkin'. One Recoverable Charge Lasting Five Minutes would mean that he could make one duplicate at a time that would last five minutes, and when that duplicate disappeared, the Charge would be considered recovered. Right?

 

If so, that's my answer. Yay.

[GamePhil]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

For temporary or "throwaway" duplicates, I use Slavishly Devoted Summoning rather than Duplication. Mainly, it just feels more "correct": creating a clone with a life span of five minutes doesn't sound like Duplication (the Power, obviously it is duplication) to me.

 

It has a couple of mechanical advantages, the most striking being that you don't lose the points if something happens to your projection. It is a Standard Power, so you can have variations of it in a Framework. The Summoning is disconnected from you, so you don't take its damage when it turns off. In exchange, you give up playing the thingie you are Summoning.

 

Technically, your Duplication with duration does get turned off: Does Not Recombine is inappropriate.

[devlin1]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Technically' date=' your Duplication with duration does get turned off: Does Not Recombine is inappropriate.[/quote']

Fair enough. It's a +0 modifier anyway, so it's no big deal. Plus, the duplicate "disappearing" is just a SFX of Ranged Recombination anyway.

 

I can appreciate the Summon approach, but I think I like this Continuing Recoverable Charges idea.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

I would actually put something onto "recoverable" to it's not just instant, otherwise you just remake the duplicate after five minutes.. I'd give it a cool down period .. you recover the charge after another period of time, at least ten minutes, possibly an hour. You get five minutes every hour to duplicate yourself.

 

that said Recoverable Continuing Charges is the way to go.

 

And I'd leave "cannot recombine" off of it, that way the effect can last less than five minutes if you really want/need it to.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

You'd have to leave Cannot Recombine off, or else it makes no sense that the Duplicat can vanish at all.

 

1 Recoverable Charge Lasting 5 Minutes works out to be a -1/4, so that seems fair.

 

As far as making the Recoverable aspect 'legal', you could always say that you can't recover the charge in combat, and that your daily charge is lost if you recombine while in combat. For the most part, you only recover charges after combat or lose charges in combat, so this seems fair.

[devlin1]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Okay, so--

 

He has the ability to have up to four duplicates, created one at a time, each of which lasts for five minutes before destabilizing and disappearing. This seems best represented by being able to make a single duplicate, bought with 4 Recoverable Charges Lasting 5 Minutes. He can't "recall" the duplicates before the five minutes are up, either; once he's made all four, he can't make any more until the first one blinks out of existence. I'd call this Ranged Recombination, as well as 0 Phase, Full DCV.

 

Now, the Duplication is actually a special effect of Teleportation. That is, he can make copies of himself, one at a time, at range. Should each Duplicate have Teleportation, 1 Non-Recovering Charge, that can only be used upon creation? Or is there some kind of Ranged option for Teleportation?

[Vorsch]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

I presume the duplicates have no problem with the fact they have a death sentance, if so summon slavish loyal. If your original character was told he had five minutes to live what would he do?

[devlin1]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

I presume the duplicates have no problem with the fact they have a death sentance' date=' if so summon slavish loyal. If your original character was told he had five minutes to live what would he do?[/quote']

Let me see if I understand what you're suggesting.

 

To make a duplicate I can control and who sticks around forever (if desired), I buy Duplication with a Continuing Charge.

 

To make a duplicate who's controlled by the GM and who only sticks around for five minutes, I buy Summon, Specific Being (+1), Slavishly Loyal (+1), Continuing Charge.

 

Why is it I'm supposed to pay more for the more limited option? Also, it's apparently a problem for the Duplication duplicates to face a limited mortality, but it's fine for the Summoned duplicates. Why is that?

[Vorsch]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

The summoned duplicate can be defined as not caring an extension of the original will as it were ( partial personalities if you have read EON by greg bear ), a actual duplicate of you has identical reasoning goals and ambitions.

 

i believe there have been stories which go over this kind of teritory, usually the duplicate ends up resenting the original, especially if the original is sleeping with his wife. 6th day, riker copy on STNG etc. i havent read comics with duplication characters but im sure it happens.

[Half Baked]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but devlin1 is trying to model the following power:

 

A duplication created/triggered by using a teleport power. The character can have no more than 4 duplicates, but only 1 is created each teleport. The duplicates only last 5 minutes, before disappearing. I am not sure what happens if the character teleports and is at his maximum amount of duplicates.

 

If this is correct I would model it the following way, assuming teleporting at max duplicates creates a new one and destroys the oldest:

 

Duplication (4 Maximum Duplicates +10, Easy Recombination as a Zero Phase Action* +10); Ranged Recombination** (+1/2); 1 Continuing and Recoverable Charge lasting 5 Minutes (-1/4)***, Only one duplicated created at a time (-1/4)****, Linked to Teleport (-1/4 or 1/2)*****

 

* Easy Recombination is to model a duplicate disappearing at the end of 5 minutes. The disappearing is really just recombining instantly)

 

** Ranged Recombination is to recombine/disappear at the end of 5 minutes.

 

*** Slightly cheaper than the O END and Persistant base Duplication as it is only slightly less effective

 

**** Special effect, but I'm not sure whether it should be -1/2. It is quite limiting given that all 4 duplicates would be created with the basic power.

 

***** Activated whenever the Teleport power is used. Also means that the Duplicates can all be identical with the Teleport power. They won't have the Duplication power that is linked to Teleport.

 

I think that models the power pretty well as long as the oldest duplicate is recombined when the linked power is used when teleporting and 4 duplicates already exist. I envisage that the Teleport triggers the destruction/recombination (Zero Phase Action) of the oldest duplicate and creates the new one. This is one of the main reasons Ranged and Easy Recombination is needed.

[DocMan]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Suddenly, this discussion reminds me of the book Kiln People.

 

Through technology, people could copy their personalities into ceramic bodies which would deteriorate 24 hours after they were created. If the dup got back home, or the head was suitably preserved and returned, the experiences of the dup could be uploaded to the original. Otherwise, the experiences of the dup were lost.

 

Doc

[ghost-angel]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

First, we can assume that a duplicate does not have to be a "free" entity. Especially if the duplicate is a psychic projection. sure it acts independantly, but that doesn't mean it thinks it's independant, the duplicate could very well know that it is merely a psychic projection of itself/original. It will not "cease to be" .. simply recombine with the subconcious that it might very well miss.

 

go with purchasing Duplication, buying Summon is a clunky expensive way to make a Mental Copy of yourself that you can only maintain for five minutes at a time.

[devlin1]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

I think that models the power pretty well as long as the oldest duplicate is recombined when the linked power is used when teleporting and 4 duplicates already exist.

Well' date=' if you think it works well that way, then that's the way I'll do it, since it's for your game, after all. If it [i']weren't[/i] your game, however, I'd point out that buying Duplication x4 with 1 Charge means that you can create up to four duplicates once, instead of being able to create up to four duplicates singly. That is, as written above, when he uses Duplication, he can make anywhere from one to four copies once. When the number he created vanish/recombine, he can make one to four again. I was thinking he'd be able to make one, then another, and then, a few minutes later, another. To me, 4 Recoverable Continuing Charges models this aspect better than 1 Recoverable Continuing Charge.

 

However, what I had in mind wasn't that he teleports and leaves a temporary copy behind-- rather, the duplicate is what's teleported, upon creation. So I'm thinking this: buy Duplication with Altered Duplicates (25%), and buy each of them a highly-limited Teleportation with 1 Non-Recovering Charge that must be used upon creation. Or should it be one Recovering Charge, and the recovery happens upon recombination?

 

Well, anyway... that seems like the build that'd work best, IMO.

[Half Baked]

Re: Temporary Duplication

 

Well' date=' if you think it works well that way, then that's the way I'll do it, since it's for your game, after all. If it [i']weren't[/i] your game, however, I'd point out that buying Duplication x4 with 1 Charge means that you can create up to four duplicates once, instead of being able to create up to four duplicates singly. That is, as written above, when he uses Duplication, he can make anywhere from one to four copies once. When the number he created vanish/recombine, he can make one to four again. I was thinking he'd be able to make one, then another, and then, a few minutes later, another. To me, 4 Recoverable Continuing Charges models this aspect better than 1 Recoverable Continuing Charge.

They way I meant it to work was that there was 1 charge, but you could create 4 duplicates. Just not all 4 at once. So while less than 4 have been created, the charge has not been used up and you can go on creating. Only one duplicated created at a time (-1/4) limitation was to model this. I was working under the assumption that the duplicate was left behind after teleporting and only one was left behind.

 

character can have no more than 4 duplicates' date=' but only 1 is created each teleport.[/quote']

This was an assumption on how the power worked, rather than how I expected it to work. If you want it to able to create up to four duplicates at once that is fine.

 

However' date=' what I had in mind wasn't that he teleports and leaves a temporary copy behind-- rather, the [i']duplicate[/i] is what's teleported, upon creation. So I'm thinking this: buy Duplication with Altered Duplicates (25%), and buy each of them a highly-limited Teleportation with 1 Non-Recovering Charge that must be used upon creation. Or should it be one Recovering Charge, and the recovery happens upon recombination?

 

Well, anyway... that seems like the build that'd work best, IMO.

How about making it Useable at Range, rather than giving the Duplicates teleport ability on creation. There would need to be an additional power advantage if you want the duplicates to be created in separate hexes. No need to buy Altered Duplicates (25%) then.