DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

[zippercomics]

Hoyo all,

 

I've been turning this little puzzle over in my head, and I can't seem to figure out the best way to handle a rules issue. I'm converting a DnD game into a Hero game, and I'm trying to make it a pretty direct port concept for concept. I haven't had too many problems, save when Familiars enter the arena. My player has built the familiar as a follower, and therefore as a character onto itself ...

 

However, Familiars in DnD have the ability to cast touch-range spells for their masters through their own contact. ie: they act as their caster's hands for the purposes of touch based spells. How would I achieve this effect for the Familiar? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Merci,

 

Ry

[Hyper-Man]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

A couple of options come immediately to mind:

 

1. Buy the spells with the indirect advantage. With appropriate limitations like only what familiar can touch etc. The only question here is how to resolve any possible damage sheild effects on the caster.
   
2. Buy the spells with stretching, does not cross intervening space. Again problems arise on how to resolve damage to familiar and caster due to damage sheilds.
   

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

However' date=' Familiars in DnD have the ability to cast touch-range spells for their masters through their own contact. ie: they act as their caster's hands for the purposes of touch based spells. How would I achieve this effect for the Familiar? Any advice would be appreciated.[/quote']

Well, if the touch-range spell you're simulating with Hero powers isn't Touch or Self Only already (in other words, the Hero version has a range) use the No Range (-1/2) Limitation on that Power.

 

For the Familiar it'd be a little complicated, but you could do it like this:

 

1) The Familiar would need to purchase what's called a Naked Advantage...that is, pay just the cost it would take to put a given Advantage on a Power, but not buy the Power itself.

 

2) This Naked Advantage (NA) can, like a Power, have Advantages and Limitations applied to it. (A bit convoluted, I know, but please bear with me).

 

3) The Naked Advantages the Familiar should purchase are Ranged and Indirect. Each of those NAs should have "Usable By One Other At Range", "Master Only (-1)" and "Only When Master Casts Appropriate Spell (-1)"; you might even consider "Familiar must make a successful Attack Roll for the spell to affect the target (-1/2)".

 

This puts "Ranged" back on the spell, and Indirect can be defined to mean "from the direction of the Familiar, but only as far from the Familiar as the Familiar can reach."

 

Alternatively, you could try this:

 

Buy the Power (spell) with Range if need be, Personal Immunity, and Sticky. (The Personal Immunity would also need an Advantage on itself "Usable By One Other At Range") This would let you cast a spell at the Familiar, which would be unaffected by it (Personal Immunity Usable By Another [Familiar]) and the Sticky means the spell effect would then affect whoever the Familiar touches. You may need to add Trigger as well, for Instant powers like Energy Blast, so they don't go off when you cast them at the Familiar, but when the Familiar touches a target.

 

I know this is all sounding terribly complicated, but it's a complicated thing to replicate with Hero. D&D does so much by fiat, whereas Hero is a toolkit and you have to "build it yourself." Which is how I prefer it, anyway.

 

Someone else may come up with a simpler way to do it; and if I come up with a simpler method, I'll do a follow-up post.

[Vorsch]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

A familiar in Dnd is all but a Sfx, in champions it can be given its due weigth and properly stated out.

 

give it naked advantage UBO any range based on ego, only master-2 for all magic. mind link with an adder of can share sences ( personal invention ).

 

A familiar is after all meant to be powerful

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

It just occured to me that a step-by-step example would have been useful. Sorry, it's been a rough couple of weeks and my thought processes are pretty muddled and slow right about now.

 

Let's take Shocking Grasp as an example.

 

We can emulate Shocking Grasp with an Energy Blast with the Special Effect of Electricity, and take the No Range Limitation on it. The exact cost will vary depending on how powerful your wizard's version is, but let's say for the sake of example that it's a 6d6 Energy Blast.

 

The base cost on this is 30 points. Apply the No Range (-1/2) Limitation and the Real Cost is 20 points. Of course if you apply other Limitations like Gestures, Incantations, Requires a Magic Skill Check and so on, the price will come down a bit, but for now I'm going to stick with just the No Range bit.

 

Now the Familiar needs to buy the Naked Advantages.

 

First, "Ranged".

 

Since "Ranged" is a +1/2 Advantage, this is a base cost of 15 points (30 * 1.5 - 30) for the Naked Advantage.

 

Now we need to put the Advantage "Usable By Other At Range" on this, and that's a +3/4 Advantage. This gives the Naked Advantage an Active cost of (15 * 1.75 ) = 26 points.

 

Now we apply the Limitations: Master Only (-1), Only When Master Casts Appropriate Spell (-1), Familiar must make a successful Attack Roll for the spell to affect the target (-1/2). That gives us a total of -2.5 in Limitations, which gives us a Real Cost of (26 / 3.5) = 7 Real Cost.

 

Do the same calculations for Indirect at the +3/4 level, and you get an Active Cost of 38 and a Real Cost of 11.

 

So for the Familiar to be able to do Touch Range spells for its Master costs the Familiar (7 + 11) = 18 points.

 

Does that give a better notion of what I was talking about?

[Dust Raven]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

Buy the spells with stretching' date=' does not cross intervening space. Again problems arise on how to resolve damage to familiar and caster due to damage sheilds.[/quote']

Out of all the suggestions, I think this is the best.

 

It's simple, uncomplicated, easy to adjucate and doesn't even involve double checking the FAQ to see if it's legal. What's better, it doesn't take a magnifying glass and a calculator to see if it's abusive.

 

Checking my handy PHB (hey, it's a good reference!) it seems that the Familiar needs to be in contect with the caster during the casting, but can then deliver the touch attack on it's own. The Familiar uses the caster's bonuses (and it's the caster who makes the rolls too). This would seem to indicate that the Familiar is nothing more than the SFX for a ranged attack (in which case, you could buy a Naked Advantage, Ranged, with your Familiar as a Focus).

 

Personally, I'd go for flavor than a straight conversion and buy Stretching out to whatever distance the Familiar can travel and still deliver the attack, with Does Not Cross Intervening Space, Focus (familiar) and Only To Attack With Spells (-3/4, 1/4 more than Only To Cause Damage because its more limited than that), No Noncombat Stretching, No Velocity Damage.

 

This would be pretty cheap, though if you wanted it cheaper, you could always buy it through the Familiar with UBO at Range, but that's going a bit munchkin.

[zippercomics]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

Groovy. This seems like a few very practical ways of emulating what I'm thinking about. It is a complicated effect, which is why I had to ask here. Not exactly the cleanest power out there, but then again, that's why I'm switching away from DnD.

 

Thanks for the options, guys. If you have any other thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

 

Ry

[Killer Shrike]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

On a clock, so havent read any of the replies, but I would recommend buying the Ranged Advantage as a Naked Modifier on up to as many AP as your biggest Spell, and limit it as "Only Via Familiar; -2"

[mattingly]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

Stretching 6", Fully Invisible, Does Not Cross Intervening Space; OAF (Familiar).

 

Add a few advantages and lims to tailor it, but that's the way I'd do it. Don't D&D familiars have to be within 30 feet to use that ability?

[lazarus]

Re: DnD Familiar's Ability to do Touch Spells ...

 

The way I would simulate it is to buy the Familiar as a Follower with the touch spells that the caster has, with the limitations of "Must be in contact with Master as spell is cast".

 

Either that, or as a Focus... but then, how to do the range?

 

Laz