Lord Quintus Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Okay Herodom, I need your help. I have in mind a weapon for a character which I think would be best if built as a multipower. Normally it's a 3d6 RKA with 16 shots/charges. However a limited number of times per day, I'm thinking around 7, it is able to imbue the bullets with magic, making them do more damage. The problem is that I can't seem to figure out how to write it up so that it uses up to separate types of charges, a "bullet" charge and a "magic shot" charge. Also, I plan to add more types of ammunition to it--later. If anyone has any ideas on how to build it help me out. I'm not very good with multipowers--they get me all confused and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalGolem Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! LQ, I hope I can help you. Here goes: 1. Do you have the Hero Designer software yet? That would take a lot of work out of this. 2. If you're starting off with only a single, basic type of attack, you can design it as a "stand-alone" power now, and change it to a Multi-power later. That might be easier. 3. Designing the extra damage with seperate charges may be done in several different ways. Some of these fit your idea better than others; take your pick. a. A different RKA linked to the base RKA, with its own charges limitation. b. An Aid to the base RKA with a constant effect, again with its own charges. c. Boosted charges. (Not sure if this fits.) d. Partially limited RKA; 16 charges on the first 3d6 (-0 lim) and 7-8 charges on the rest (-1/2 lim). 4. Hero Designer is your friend. (But I'm not sure if it'll do partial lims.) If necessary, I'll expand on these ideas a bit more tomorrow. Chances are someone on this board will beat me to it, or come up with an altogether better idea, which would of course be just fine. Good luck, good nite, thanx heaps; DGv3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I suggest simply you build your gun, then create a separate "booster" power linked to it that only has 7 charges. ie Power One: 3D6 RKA, OAF(Gun), 16 Charges. Power Two: +2D6 RKA, OAF(Gun), Linked to Power 1, 7 Charges. So we have a Gun that normally does 3D6 RKA and can fire 16 shots, but up to 7 times a Day it can do 5D6. Multipowers aren't necessary unless you want to have more than one type of base bullet. You can do the math for costs. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Quintus Posted May 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Once again, Herodom restores my faith in the universe. Thank you very much guys! As for Digital Golem's suggestion, I do plan to turn it into a multipower later. Unfortunately I don't have $80.00 to spend on a Core Rulebook (I've been using my friend's. I was like "If you want a GM, you let me use the book!" ) and Herodesigner software. Yet. Rob, you are a Godsend! I can't beleive I didn't think of the linked thing sooner. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Once again' date=' Herodom restores my faith in the universe. Thank you very much guys! As for Digital Golem's suggestion, I do plan to turn it into a multipower later. Unfortunately I don't have $80.00 to spend on a Core Rulebook (I've been using my friend's. I was like "If you want a GM, you let me use the book!" ) and Herodesigner software. Yet. Rob, you are a Godsend! I can't beleive I didn't think of the linked thing sooner. Thanks guys.[/quote'] Not a problem. I never thought of the linked thing either until I saw it done in one of the old Enemies books, and realized how simple it was to do tricks like that. Now you can do any kind of "carrier" attack as well, like an Energy Blast with a linked Entangle, or even I suppose things like a Force Field with a trigger for a linked Flash Attack on it when someone tries to shoot you. (Although you might want to warn your fellow PCs about this, before you blind EVERYONE...Or not... ) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherio Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! ...Now you can do any kind of "carrier" attack as well...Rob Sound like an old V&V player there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 2, 2004 Report Share Posted May 2, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Sound like an old V&V player there... V&V...Err....I know not of what you speak... heh heh Tell ya a funny story, long ago in High School I played with a group and V&V was their favorite game, and for me it was love at first sight. But, when I went to the local hobby shops, they didn't have any copies of Villains and Vigilantes at all! All they had was this game called Champions I had never heard of....(3rd Ed. to be precise)...So, rather than wait until they ordered a copy of V&V for me, I figured this game was just as good and bought it... Untold numbers of years later....Here I am still playing HERO. Mind you, and this is between you, me and the rest of humanity...I did eventually get a copy of V&V, and it remains one of my favorite Superhero games to this day. (I have every module released but one!) I even pull it out from time to time for one-shots with whatever group I am running for...I campaign with HERO, but I still play V&V. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I'd just build it as a partially limited power, see page 180 of your borrowed copy of 5E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Power One: 3D6 RKA, OAF(Gun), 16 Charges. Power Two: +2D6 RKA, OAF(Gun), Linked to Power 1, 7 Charges. I wouldn't Link them. If doesn't make any difference if the Charges are different, but Linking them is like buying EB 6d6 and EB 6d6 Linked for only 50 points instead of buying one EB 12d6 for 60. You wouldn't allow this normally, and it shouldn't be applied here. Other than that, this looks like a great way to go. This is assuming that you enchant the bullets already in the gun, and don't have a seperate set of enchanted rounds kept seperately from the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I see Michael Surbrook and myself aren't the only Hero gamers to have heard of the Hellsing anime series . (and I only recognized the 'carrier' reference after reading Douglas Q. Sangnoir's Fuzion character sheet (he was Bob Schroeck's character in Warrior's World,a long-running V & V campaign). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I wouldn't Link them. If doesn't make any difference if the Charges are different, but Linking them is like buying EB 6d6 and EB 6d6 Linked for only 50 points instead of buying one EB 12d6 for 60. You wouldn't allow this normally, and it shouldn't be applied here. Other than that, this looks like a great way to go. This is assuming that you enchant the bullets already in the gun, and don't have a seperate set of enchanted rounds kept seperately from the rest. Actually, I disagree, there is a very good reason they are linked, if the base rounds can't be fired, then the magical rounds can't be fired either. Therefore the "booster" rounds should be linked to the primary rounds, and get a cost break accordingly. He's not getting a 12D6 EB, he's getting (to use your example combined with his...) 6 6D6 EB's and 7 12D6 EB's, which is definitely a limitation if I ever saw one. Although I can see why some GMs such as yourself might not consider it a significant enough limitation to be worth a cost break. Personal taste I guess. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I see Michael Surbrook and myself aren't the only Hero gamers to have heard of the Hellsing anime series . (and I only recognized the 'carrier' reference after reading Douglas Q. Sangnoir's Fuzion character sheet (he was Bob Schroeck's character in Warrior's World,a long-running V & V campaign). Alucard is perhaps one of my favorite renditions of Dracula of all time, the series kinda petered out by the end but he was so damn cool that I never missed a moment. Let Buffy try and Slay HIM! Actually, there's a Hellsing movie coming out soon, if you haven't heard. I hope it's a continuation of the series. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Actually, I disagree, there is a very good reason they are linked, if the base rounds can't be fired, then the magical rounds can't be fired either. Therefore the "booster" rounds should be linked to the primary rounds, and get a cost break accordingly. He's not getting a 12D6 EB, he's getting (to use your example combined with his...) 6 6D6 EB's and 7 12D6 EB's, which is definitely a limitation if I ever saw one. Although I can see why some GMs such as yourself might not consider it a significant enough limitation to be worth a cost break. Personal taste I guess. Rob No he isn't. If you Link them, then he's getting 16 3d6K rounds and 7 2d6K rounds that can only be fired with the 3d6s. They'd have to apply seperately to the targets defenses, because they'd have to be two seperate attacks to be Linked. If you want the damage to add, you can't Link them. Also if the damage adds together, it's impossible to use the extra damage without firing the main rounds so Linked doesn't limit the Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! No he isn't. If you Link them, then he's getting 16 3d6K rounds and 7 2d6K rounds that can only be fired with the 3d6s. They'd have to apply seperately to the targets defenses, because they'd have to be two seperate attacks to be Linked. If you want the damage to add, you can't Link them. Also if the damage adds together, it's impossible to use the extra damage without firing the main rounds so Linked doesn't limit the Power. Wait? (Since I'm at school and don't have FReD with me right now...) Does it actually say two powers must be 100% seperate in FReD to be linked? And that linking them would make them seperate attacks? That seems a little dumb, those extra 7 +2D6RKA shots in the above example are useless without the original attack power, and wasted points if anything happens to it. If I ever saw an example of where I would call a power "linked" this is it. And because they are declared a single attack by SPFX, I would declare them a single attack in any game I ran, not apply them twice. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenixcrest Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Just give them both the same OAF. If the focus gets busted or knocked away, then both powers are useless. That's how I'd do it, anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! Wait? (Since I'm at school and don't have FReD with me right now...) Does it actually say two powers must be 100% seperate in FReD to be linked? And that linking them would make them seperate attacks? That seems a little dumb, those extra 7 +2D6RKA shots in the above example are useless without the original attack power, and wasted points if anything happens to it. If I ever saw an example of where I would call a power "linked" this is it. And because they are declared a single attack by SPFX, I would declare them a single attack in any game I ran, not apply them twice. Rob 5th Edition, Page 196, Last Paragraph, Relevant Excerpts "When a character uses two (or more) Linked Powers, he activates and uses them simultaneously ... He only makes one Attack Roll to hit with them, and it must be the same type of Attack Roll ... However, the target gets to apply his defenses separately against the Powers..." Unfortunately, when using linked powers, the damage of each power is applied separately to the targets defenses. So linking two "identical" powers only saves you points, but doesn't give you a more powerful effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! 5th Edition, Page 196, Last Paragraph, Relevant Excerpts "When a character uses two (or more) Linked Powers, he activates and uses them simultaneously ... He only makes one Attack Roll to hit with them, and it must be the same type of Attack Roll ... However, the target gets to apply his defenses separately against the Powers..." Unfortunately, when using linked powers, the damage of each power is applied separately to the targets defenses. So linking two "identical" powers only saves you points, but doesn't give you a more powerful effect. I stand corrected. I don't entirely agree with it, but I can't argue with it. I guess that was put in there to prevent various abuses, although linked already allows for some nasty effects. Of course, is this is the case, beyond special effect how do you make it to the "booster" shot requires the original gun to be working? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenixcrest Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I stand corrected. I don't entirely agree with it, but I can't argue with it. I guess that was put in there to prevent various abuses, although linked already allows for some nasty effects. Of course, is this is the case, beyond special effect how do you make it to the "booster" shot requires the original gun to be working? Rob As I said above, give them both the same Focus (OAF, probably). If the Focus is damaged or taken away, then the powers can't work. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! As I said above' date=' give them both the same Focus (OAF, probably). If the Focus is damaged or taken away, then the powers can't work. It's that simple.[/quote'] I guess in the end, that's the best way. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! The only thing I can suggest is to thoroughly read up on Partially Limited Power, and Naked Power Advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Re: I need serious help!!! I stand corrected. I don't entirely agree with it, but I can't argue with it. I guess that was put in there to prevent various abuses, although linked already allows for some nasty effects. Of course, is this is the case, beyond special effect how do you make it to the "booster" shot requires the original gun to be working? Rob A "booster" shot is just extra dice. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have fewer booster shots than normal, then you just put fewer Charges on the boosters. Of course, there's always Succor/Aid...but only use that if it takes time to enchant the next bullet (Succor 10d6 7 charges lasting one extra phase oaf self only will cost 17 points and will add 30 active points with standard effect and take an attack action to activate / or a +2d6 K 7 charges oaf costs only 12 and activates instantly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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